Talk:The Jeffersons/Archive 1

Embassy Television
Episode 184 marked the first episode of The Jeffersons to be produced by Embassy Television. King Shadeed 18:50, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

The source of the money to open the first store
"..opening up a store with a disability settlement George had received from an injury he sustained while working as a janitor."

I recall that it was a settlement from when the car the family was riding in was hit by a city bus.

This point should be verified.

72.82.206.156 00:58, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Terrible grammar & punctuation
This article is chock full of grammar mistakes; specifically words being capitalized when they shouldn't be, and improper punctuation. I've corrected some of the mistakes, but I can't keep up with the countless errors that keep being added by an anonymous editor. Spylab 19:22, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll put a note on his/her talk page. He/she seems to be editing from a static IP so he/she should get it.--Elipongo (Talk 19:57, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not just grammar. There are some sentences that don't even finish the contextual content.  For example:

"The First Two-Part Jeffersons Episode that aired in February 1976, when Lionel (Damon Evans) decides to write a term paper, but problems accure when Jenny (Berlinda Tolbert), both decide to get to break-up, which threatens the Friendship of Helen and Louise." When Jenny what?--WPaulB 18:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I tried to correct as many of the errors, in the "Two-Part Episodes" section, as I could.

Removed confusing sentence
I removed the following from the end of the "Synopsis" section. It seems confusing and mostly unneeded, but feel free to add it back it you can sort out what it says and integrate it into the section.
 * During the show's seventh year, Bentley was written out, saying that he went to Russia in 1981, which had concluded Berlinda Tolbert's final appearance as Jenny Willis Jefferson, although, she appears throughout the entire series run, In 1983, Paul Benedict returns to the series as The Jeffersons' eccentric British Neighbor, Harry Bentley.

-Platypus Man | Talk 04:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Recent editing of this article
Just compare the article from the last edit before showed up to the current version. I think the article was much better before than it is now. I don't know about you all, but I'm not up to finding the good edits among the TWO HUNDRED FORTY ONE edits since the version from January 20th. I've though very seriously of simply reverting back to that version&mdash; any other opinions? --Elipongo (Talk 11:30, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

In reality-show was miscast
Weezie was 22 years older than George —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.51.248.22 (talk) 21:39, 17 March 2007 (UTC).

Vandalism
Someone has vandalised the article removing various sections and/or images. I have re-inserted them but ask that this article be monitored (if possible) for further vandalism. HeMan5 20:28, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The only way to monitor the article against vandalism is to "watch" it and check it every few days. Don't ask me why, but a lot of people get their jollies vandalizing Wikipedia.


 * To tell you the truth, this article suffers a lot less vandalism than many others — and I'm not even talking about controversial articles. — Malik Shabazz | Talk 22:31, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Convoluted Synopsis
I think the article would be much more readable if most of the information in the "Synopsis" was split out into a "Characters" section. I would do it myself however I have only a passing familiarity with this show. 24.247.221.200 (talk) 08:29, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

American?
Ffirehorse has brought an interesting point to my attention, and one that I wrestled it, so I'd like other opinions.

Should this be listed as an American sitcom? I reinserted this on the reasoning that sitcoms are created in other countries as well, but, on the other hand, since the article mentions that the series was broadcast by CBS, which, as we know, is American...?

Further, American is a disambig page, the link may be more trouble than it's worth.

Opinions? (for my future reference)

Quill 01:21, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * A show can be aired in other countries, yes, but the show is American. Mike H 01:23, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)

The Jeffersons was produced in the US, set in the US, with American actors, American production company, and American funding. These are the usual criteria used to determine what country a show is from.16:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Zebra
The article contains misinformation, "zebra" is George Jefferson's term for Mulatto, NOT interracial couples - something that should be obvious. 16:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

sell out
I find it interesting that this man “moved on up” to the East Side, but was never called or considered a sellout. Does anyone have anything on this? Keltik31 19:36, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

We don't know much about The Jeffersons before they moved into the mainly white neighbourhood of Archie Bunker's. We don't know what the Jefferson's old neighbours thought when George and Louise moved beside Archie Bunker. By the time they moved into the fancy apartment, I would presume that George and Louise were not associating with many from the old neighbourhood they used to live in before moving beside the Bunkers since their social live seemed to centre around the Willises and, at the beginning, the odd reference to Edith Bunker. Personally, I think it a step down to move from a house to an apartment no matter how much fancier the apartment/condo is.

From what I remember from the Archie Bunker, the only issue was Archie's initial uncomfortibleness with having a Black next door neighbour and how much more enlightened Lionel Jefferson was by the newly emerging standards of the day than even Meathead. Lionel was involved in various Black rights groups and equal rights groups and peace groups etc and was never considered to be a sell-out on the Archie Bunker show. And by the time The Jeffersons came out, selling out was the norm even among us whites - it was a time when hippies all became yuppies and competition replaced peace and love (see Payola$ Hammer on a Drum). ```17:09, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Super Bowl Lead-Out Program
Added this box to keep the chain of SB L/O shows going. Granted this was not as important back in the day as it is now, but seeing as this box appears on 43 other shows (yes, I know there have only been 42 Super Bowls so far, but SB I was broadcast on two different networks and the Office has seemingly already been revealed as SB XXXXIII's L/O, according to the show's page) it only seems fitting to include it here as well. Ttenchantr (talk) 02:03, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, by the end of the night, the box won't be on any of them. It's unsourced, it's out of context and isn't relevant to the history of any of these shows. There is no list or article on Wikipedia about this topic to which such a box might refer a reader and it ends up adding to the clutter of boxes. Succession boxes have a distinct purpose and I'm not convinced using them to link to a totally unrelated show, except by the coincidence of having been a lead out show, in some cases which were broadcast on different networks, following the Super Bowl. Why is that notable many years later? Wildhartlivie (talk) 02:17, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I think that it is relevant. That the show were deemed worthy of such a prime time slot seems noteworthy to me. As for linking totally unrelated shows, we might as well get rid of those pesky Emmy boxes as well. Why is it notable that all these shows won the same award in different years, what with them some of them being on different networks?

BTW, The lead out shows were only broadcast on the network that broadcast the Super Bowl. Apart from Super Bowl I, which was broadcast on two networks, there are no references to shows broadcast on other networks.

Before you delete them all, give me a chance to assemble the shows onto a list page. Ttenchantr (talk) 02:40, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Too late to make a list as the boxes are all gone. Thanks for nothing. Ttenchantr (talk) 02:42, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Possibility for expansion
I actually like this article but there is always room for expansion and improvement. I am impressed that the short-lived, though important character Alan Willis is included here. HOWEVER in the cast list I cannot believe that RALPH the doorman was overlooked! I do not know where to find sources on this but I want to open up the possibility to add Ralph. There was also an infamous landlord, a racist father and son in another apartment and a bartender and a black police officer + white police officer with recurring roles. Tom Willis also had an elderly uncle who dated Mother Jefferson. Lastly there were a couple of employees of Jefferson cleaners that had recurring roles and never mentioned in this article. Lastly George Jefferson had a Navy buddy who had a male to female transexual operation. This person recurred in 3 episodes and is a parody on Archie Bunker's cab client who was a cross dresser! LOUISE ALSO HAD THE MAIDEN NAME OF: "MILLS" and a sister who ran away to Paris due to a teenage pregnancy and a nephew. There were further several couples fro Harleem who had recurring roles as friends of George and Louise.

ONE LAST THING is that the character Jessica Jefferson ought to be mentioned in this article as she is the ONLY grandchild of Helen, Tom, Louise and George!

Again mentioning these characters so there might be an opening up of expansion. I will start looking for possible sources. Rednath (talk) 07:34, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Dave Chapelle
Didn't Dave Chapelle sing the theme song in one of his episodes? Can anyone remember this... and maybe add a bit about it? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.224.208.60 (talk) 08:32, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

now I remember... Dave Chapelle was singing the theme song when he was doing karaoke at Oprah's house. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.224.208.60 (talk) 08:43, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Not the first interracial couple on TV
My grandmother remembers a 1950's sitcom about a white woman married to a Latin American person with a heavy accent. Retro Agnostic (talk) 20:08, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Request for comment on articles for individual television episodes and characters
A request for comments has been started that could affect the inclusion or exclusion of episode and character, as well as other fiction articles. Please visit the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(fiction). Ikip (talk) 11:07, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Film adaptation
I've been reading that there is a Jeffersons film in the works, starring Terrence Howard as George Jefferson. CollisionCourse (talk) 12:19, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * If you can find a reliable source that discusses the film project, please add it to the article. — Malik Shabazz 17:35, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Prince of Bel-Air?
Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but didn't Phillip Drummond and Arnold Jackson (of Diff'rent Strokes) buy the mansion from the Banks'? This article claims it was the Jeffersons —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.77.60.24 (talk) 22:04, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

They had seven stores when they moved to the East side !!!!
they did NOT have 7 stores when the Jeffersons first started out they opened 2 and they were operating and then he was going to open his third store the day after he, Louise, and Linole moved into their new Apt making only three stores it was during the course of the series run that they would get seven stores —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.96.231.239 (talk) 03:35, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Emmy Awards
According to the Emmy Database on their website. Sherman Hemsley was only nominated for The Jeffersons in 1984, not each year as stated in this article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.103.235.145 (talk) 02:39, 25 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Fixed. Thank you for pointing out the error. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 03:04, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Production Credits
Hmm--I notice the production credits have been cut drastically. Was that purposely done or an error? Quill 00:20, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Leave Me Alone!
If I made cuts that made someone unhappy, I apologize, I just saw something that looked wrong. I SENSE AN ATTITUDE; IF I MADE YOU UNHAPPY, FINE, BUT DONT CATCH AN ATTITUDE!
 * Well, you sense wrong. It's not a question of being 'made unhappy', it's a question of not knowing. If I knew, I would simply have reverted.  It's not polite to shout. And please do remember to sign your posts.  Quill 21:38, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

"Weezie"
The Amazon review writes her nickname as "Weezy". Anyone know an official source for the correct spelling? Was it ever in the credits or written down somewhere on the show?

Proof of DVD Date?
Someone has added a DVD release date for the 7th season, stating January 2, 2008. What proof is there of this? I am looking at Sony's DVD release schedule for that month, and The Jeffersons 7th Season set is not on there.

Danny Wells "Charlie the Bartender" 1975-1985
Recently an editor rv'd my additions of the actor Danny Wells who played Charlie the Bartender from 1975 to 1985 (all seasons) citing "non-notable player". I find this difficult to accept since other players are listed in the same categories that I placed Mr. Wells, and they themselves had far less screen time and were/are less known: i.e. Jay Hammer (1978-1979). Mr. Wells is best known for this role and appeared in 23 episodes (some that were centered around him entirely). His bar was a staple of the apartment complex that the Jeffersons resided in; and several key recurring gags revolved around his character: George constantly stiffing the bill onto someone else (mostly Lionel). In one episode, Charlie faced eviction. George stepped in and used his bar as an expansion to his cleaning store. George, realizing Charlie is like one of the family, refused to evict him and let Charlie stay ... (hardly a "non-notable" character). In another later episode, titled "A Secret in the Back Room" (Season 11, episode #17) it is revealed that Charlie has struggled for years with a drinking problem, and is separated from his wife because of it. George and Louise help him to come to grips with the problem. If the editor wishes me to elaborate on his character more for the article to make it known that Mr Wells was certainly a "notable" character on the Jeffersons, I will do so. But he deserves just as much claim as Ned Wertimer (Ralph the Doorman), Mike Evans (who is only credited with 34 episodes) and Damon Evans (36). I plan to rv the deletion on grounds that his character is notable; but I wish a discussion here first. Thank you. Maineartists (talk) 00:39, 20 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Addendum - I understand why Mike Evans and Damon Evans (having split the role of Lionel) had 34 and 36 episodes between them. I was merely pointing out the "minor role" that Ralph the Doorman (Ned Wertimer) played (via actual screen time), along with Jay Hammer's character in Season 5 only; and the number of episodes counted for each "Lionel" actor. I would only ask that if any editor could find another "non-notable" actor - not listed - such as Danny Wells that the writers of The Jeffersons gave 23 episodes (or more) for all seasons from 1972-1985 and episodes central to their characters that would place Charlie the Bartender in a separate category; please list them here and I will withdraw my inclusion. Thank you. Maineartists (talk) 01:17, 20 October 2016 (UTC)


 * I think this is a very verbose question about whether Danny Wells is notable. That article about him is certainly low on evidence of notability. Maproom (talk) 13:24, 20 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Maproom You are right, I am verbose. But one must make a fair case to support their claim. So, to continue beating that verbose horse: his article on WP should not base his character inclusion on The Jefferson page. It is a poorly written article that is need of expansion. He actually was a composer, voice-over actor, and starred in numerous films and television series from 1972-2013 (105 credits in all) including recurring appearances on: Kojak, Columbo, Sanford and Son, Eight is Enough, Chips, The A Team, etc ... Mike Evans and Damon Evans WP pages and credits on IMDB are less in comparison. Ned Wertimer's character equals Charlie's in plot and importance. Finally, there is just no debating Jay Hammer's inclusion as a notable player (8 episodes) in this article both in Synopsis and info-box based on his article and appearance in the show, comparing to Charlie the Bartender: 23 episodes. I do not think simply visiting the actor's WP page represents sufficient research for his character inclusion; since even WP pages fail in proper representation. Thank you. Maineartists (talk) 14:00, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * If you believe the article on Danny Wells can be improved, you are encouraged to improve it, particularly if you use suitable references. His notability will be judged on that article, not on what you have written in discussion pages. Maproom (talk) 15:25, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Maproom Thanks! I will expand his page. However: Jay Hammer has a notability tag on his page, yet he is listed here. I think I would rest this case if he was removed as a notable major character: under your claim of his WP notability; and not his character importance. How can you defend Hammer on those grounds and not Wells? Thanks Maineartists (talk) 15:54, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Reinstating "Charlie the Bartender" (1975-1985)
After further discussion and helpful guidance from editors and admins, I am reinstating the character of "Charlie the Bartender" based on notability of the actor Danny Wells and his recurring role throughout the 11 season series. Please bring all discussion here first before reverting any contributions. Thank you. Maineartists (talk) 16:09, 21 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Rms125a@hotmail.com I do not wish to get into an edit war with you regarding this matter. However, you did not give the proper time (a few hours at best) and attention for other editors to discuss the matter here in this new section after I had painstakingly expanded and updated the Danny Wells page per request to show notability and level of recurring character for this page in comparison to those already listed. Your borrowed word of "verbose" does not apply to the work I have done to support my claims. This is the second time you have rv'd my inclusion with no basis. I did my work. Where is yours? Thank you. Maineartists (talk) 13:11, 22 October 2016 (UTC)


 * @Maineartists -- My "work", as that of all editors here, is to give my considered opinion to other editors' work (I can't fairly judge my own edits, so other editors must do that), and I have made my position known. Hounding other editors over trivia is not a display of good faith. Your options include waiting to see if any other editors join this colloquy and endorse your version or filing a notice at ANI (edit warring). Quis separabit?  13:31, 22 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you Quis separabit?  13:31, 22 October 2016 (UTC) My sincerest apologies. I did not know my actions were being seen as hounding and not in good faith. My option will be to wait and see. Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 13:50, 22 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Quis separabit? After careful review, I have decided to at least bring this topic to WP:NPOVN and will be inviting you to join. Thank you. Maineartists (talk) 15:55, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Overzealous editing by way of deletion
Dear Quis separabit? : Good evening. As you may know, it has been advised by admins that good editing is not to delete dead links, but to place dead link tags so that editors and admins visiting the page can use their skills to search for other reliable sources to replace the dead link that may resurface or arise in the future. Deleting an inline citation (here:) for which their original sole purpose was for the inclusion and support of the original fact of statement leaves it unsourced and vulnerable for contested material debate and/or deletion.

Your history of overzealous deletion and reverting WP:BATHWATER prevents me from trying to reason with you regarding a sensible edit; as I am still waiting for your reply on a simple discussion here: Simple inclusion of a notable recurring character2016-10-22-07-35-a1. In one fell swoop, you single handed removed large portions of this article - for whatever reason - along with links (that should have simply been tagged "dead" for future editing and research). Thank you. Maineartists (talk) 02:27, 24 October 2016 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks. Quis separabit?  02:29, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 one external links on The Jeffersons. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140609034710/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4JQOrFsLi0 to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4JQOrFsLi0
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061205063902/http://www.tvland.com:80/shows/jeffersons/ to http://www.tvland.com/shows/jeffersons

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 03:09, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Archived discussion
The discussion opened at Neutral point of view/Noticeboard‎ regarding the inclusion of the recurring role "Charlie the Bartender" has now been archived. Significant time has elapsed with no contest to that discussion; gathering support from an editor to this talk page. Proper invitation to join that discussion was given. With the presented cited sources and archived statements of notability, confident to reinstate the original inclusion. Support to place recurring character in 1) Main Cast wikitable (11 Seasons) after Ralph the Doorman - 2) Actor Danny Wells in Synopsis following Ned Wertimer - 3) Infobox after Jay Hammer. Thank you. Maineartists (talk) 14:26, 14 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Sufficient time for this topic has elapsed. Reinstating above information. Thank you. Maineartists (talk) 13:37, 28 November 2016 (UTC)


 * As I have done extensive research, editing and protocol for this re-instating; please do not revert without bringing discussion to this talk page countering cited resources and discussion. With all due respect, you have had ample time to join in all the talks offered with cited reliable sources, updated pages, and noticeboard discussions. There was never a reason for "consensus" after the updated page for notability and the overwhelming presentation of reliable sources claiming 'recurring / starring' character. I have already persuaded an opposing editor within this topic due to my diligent work. I do not wish to get into an edit war with you. Thank you. Maineartists (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2016 (UTC)


 * More than a month ago, you posted a lengthy discussion on this page about Danny Wells (Charlie the bartender), Mike Evans, and Damon Evans. I've re-read it and the subsequent discussion many times (I also followed it in real time, because this article is on my watchlist), and I can't see where anybody has agreed with you that Wells/Charlie should be added to the article. Wikipedia works by consensus, not by arguing until your opponents are too tired to rebut your argument, and I see no evidence of consensus to include Wells/Charlie. Admittedly, I may have missed it in the lengthy discussion. Could you show me where other editors agreed that the article should include Wells/Charlie? (A reference to the date and time of an editor's comment is sufficient; no need to copy and paste the comment itself.) Thank you. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 18:08, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I have contacted the editor in question (maproom) who originally suggested above improving the actor's page for notability (reason for non-inclusion). Upon review the editor in question left approval that indeed the subject did appear notable enough for inclusion. I thought it was on the noticeboard or the editor's talk page; but I am coming up short. Unless the editor has removed said comment, I will keep searching; but it was indeed agreed upon regarding notability. Accompanied with the numerous reliable sources presented on the Noticeboard and the actor's page, I thought it was justified in keeping with WP inclusion. I simply did not want to clutter up the template, infobox and page with endless citations. I understand consensus, but if all reliable sources claim the same reason for inclusion, where is the reasoning for consensus? It seems to be crossing into personal preference, since there are absolutely no sources cited for inclusion of other similar characters in this article (hence the heading tag). I understand that WP is not a popularity contest and I am not winning any points; but I appreciate the discussion. Thank you. Best. PS Should I have re-instated the information with the 20 gathered reliable sources for inline citations that claim "recurring" / "starring" / "cast member" etc presented at the Noticeboard? Maineartists (talk) 23:27, 28 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Here: 12:33, 28 October 2016 Thank you. Maineartists (talk) 00:06, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Maineartists, for pointing that out to me. I missed it in my review earlier. I've self-reverted and restored the information you added to the article. According to the instructions at Template:Infobox television, the cast in the infobox at the top of the article should be "listed in original credit order followed by order in which new cast joined the show", which I guess means that actors who didn't make the opening credits shouldn't be in the infobox. In terms of who/what gets included in a Wikipedia article (not just this article), it's based on reliable sources and consensus. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 03:07, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Malik Shabazz I can't thank you enough for the time and attention you brought to this topic and subject. I appreciate all that you did in support of this inclusion. It did not go unnoticed. Best, Maineartists (talk) 14:09, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Harry Bentley's Etymological Expertise
I have a question. I hope someone can help me. I distinctly remember watching an episode in which Harry, the stock Englishman character, explains to George the origin of the term "sincere" in praising a girlfriend's sincerity. [It's an inaccurate but common folk etymology he provides, about how "sincere" supposedly comes from "without wax."] George cuts him off with, "Okay Bentley, I'm glad your girlfriend got rid of her wax." Anyway, I'd really like to be able to reference the episode for something I've written about folk etymologies. Season and episode. Can anyone help? Thanks. --Christofurio (talk) 13:20, 17 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi Christofurio. I'm afraid I don't remember that episode, but perhaps one of these episode guides might help:
 * IMDb
 * TV.com
 * Ranker
 * Good luck. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 03:30, 18 January 2018 (UTC)