Talk:The Johns Hopkins University SAIS Europe

Fair use rationale for Image:SAIS logo.gif
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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:07, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Merge
I had a brief look, and it didn't seem to me that this satisfies notability with reliable sourcing going into the topic in depth. I prod'd the article but was told to suggest a merge, which I would be fine with merging to Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies. So here is the merge suggestion. --Izno (talk) 23:48, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - I removed the prod because graduate schools with their own site are generally considered notable. In this case there is a very clear additional claim to notability as the first full-time graduate school located in Europe under the American higher-education system. Having said that, I don't object strongly to a merge. However, it must be a proper merge; in other words all the essential information is moved to the target; optimally with sources. I would oppose a redirect or a redirect with minimal merging. TerriersFan (talk) 01:23, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "Optimally with sources" is the exact problem, naturally. This article has none which are of the reliable sort, and so any optimal merge would be of the kind where minimal amount of content was retained. I'm personally amenable to preserving a paragraph of the highlights of the current content, but otherwise... --Izno (talk) 02:06, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The various web sources cited are primary sources but perfectly reliable for non-contentious factual content though not, of course, to establish primary notability. For good secondary sources a search of Italian media would need to be carried out which I am not qualified to do. TerriersFan (talk) 02:37, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I am a former student of the SAIS Bologna Centre. I think it definitely merits its own article as although it is an integral part of the SAIS program it is also administered separately than the main school in Washington DC and runs its own degree programs. The vast majority of students at the center continue onto Washington DC to continue their studies and gain a SAIS MA, however the center does also award a one year diploma and has two year joint programs with other European universities. The center has many high profile alumi who received the one year diploma without continuing onto Washington. The center publishes the BC Journal of International Affairs and holds many international conferences every year. I would however suggest changing the name to The Johns Hopkins University, Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies Bologna Center. Cesariano (talk) 14:07, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Merge. Add sources. Merger may take some effort. Dunno about finding sources. --AndersW (talk) 01:50, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It does not appear from the school's web site, and from what you say above, that this is independent. The school offers apparently 3 programs: Washington, Bologna, & Nanjing. They go in one article. But there's a more serious problem. Almost the entire article is a copyright violation of the site, slightly rearranged. And there's no point getting permission, because it is also almost totally promotional. Much better to add a proper paragraph or two of encyclopedic content, written from scratch,  to the main page, which is rather short. I started removing the worst, like a description of the ceremonies for the new building, and a section with the schools contact information, bur I then realised that most of the rest is equally unsuitable. For a further explanation, see our FAQ  about  organisations, and articles like this.  Either you can do it quickly, or i will, because we do not tolerate copyvio and we not not include promotion, not even for the best of places. DGG (talk) 03:41, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok will attempt a rewrite this evening, if the consensus continues to go towards a merge, I will happily go along with that also. Cesariano (talk) 14:25, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

rewrite
I have now undertaken a substantial rewrite of this article. Hopefully this will clear up many of the copyright issues and problems with promotional language. Normally I would not have directly edited the article due to COI, but I have attempted to keep as neutral a tone as possible and be very cautious in my editing. I felt that this was necessary as the continuing problems that have arising over the recent history of this article have degraded the article to such an extent that it was in need of urgent attention. I invite the participants in the discussion on this page to comment on the new version of this article. As I have previously stated, if the consensus of the group continues towards a merge I will happily submit to this consensus. Cesariano (talk) 18:56, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Another editor removed some remaining promotional material, & I removed more. We do include the names of all the administrators and faculty, even if the total staff, including the director, are only nine people. It is quite possible, however, that some of the faculty may qualify for individual articles under WP:PROF, & then they can be mentioned. . (Basically, they must have written several books published by major academic  publishers, that have gotten published reviews, or done the equivalent. Major public service counts, if there are good 3rd party published references to it)  We never include the names titles and addresses of the entire advisory council--it is material like this which make an article promotional.


 * I am not sure about the merge. It is not organized independently, according to the web site for the school, but it might be notable in its own right nonetheless. Some 3rd party published sources specifically about the center in a substantial way are really needed. If you can add them, it might well hold. DGG (talk) 00:06, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Change of name
Would any one object to changing the name of this article to the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS) Bologna Center, which is the official name of the school, and keeping the redirect from Bologna Center, which is the name it is most commonly referred to by the Johns Hopkins community. Cesariano (talk) 18:59, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * moved as suggested. Obviously sensible. DGG (talk) 23:57, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Promotional additions removed
I have removed a large number of promotional additions added to the page by a member of the center's staff. Considering the persistent nature of the additions, I have protected the page for 3 days against their immediate restoration. When the protection has expired, it will be appropriate to add a list of those members ofthe faculty who are notable, which is defined as those having pages in WP or obviously qualified for them. The links should go to the WP pages, not the faculty home pages. At that point, there is some additional promotional language in the first few paragraphs that should be removed as well. In particular, ref. 1 does not support the statement given aboutt he ranking of the Center, just the ranking of the overall Johns Hopkins program.  DGG ( talk ) 01:09, 5 April 2010 (UTC)


 * you asked on my talk p."Thanks for your help! A few more questions: 1. Since the Bologna Center is a part of JHU SAIS rather than a separate entity (about half of all incoming students spend their first year in Bologna and their second year in DC), it is appropriate to have the ranking up as it encompasses all of SAIS' campuses (DC, Bologna, and Nanjing). We are one institution with multiple campuses, not separate universities like CSU- Long Beach/CSU- Fullerton. 2. How can I upload a photo of the school? I understand that the view from the terrace isn't necessarily relevant, but I'd like to upload a panorama of the school building.

Thanks! Rebekah —Preceding unsigned comment added by OdetteBR (talk • contribs) 14:10, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I replied "If it is the ranking for the main program, it belongs in the article for the main program, not in the article for each center as if it applied to it specifically What you have just said is in fact a good argument for not having a separate article for the Rome campus, if it is merely the location for one year of one program in one school of a university. JHU gets an article as a matter of course, and a prominent school within it such as SAIS justifies an article, but a separate article for the Rome center of SIAIS within JHU is a little dubious and can only be justified if the center is independent. . You're trying to have it both ways--the more I think about it, the more I think the original idea to put this information into the main SIAIS article with only a redirect for the name of the center might be best. DGG ( talk ) 01:42, 21 April 2010 (UTC)"

History
I've heard the campus was built in Bologna after WW2 with state department support, for the purpose of serving as an American bastion in Bologna. (Bologna being, at the time, a famously communist city.) Could anybody corroborate this? Has it changed..? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.221.71.42 (talk) 15:28, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

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