Talk:The Last Meeting of the Knights of the White Magnolia

Notability
Per the single reference I've provided in this stub, the library at Texas State University has plenty of reviews, etc. to establish the play's notability. Production info can easily be fleshed out a bit from the IBDB link. --Dereksmootz (talk) 18:50, 21 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Among other things, it was named one of the Top 10 plays of the '76–'77 season and as such highlighted in the Burns Mantle Theater Yearbook series. It may seem to be obscure now, but that's a form of recentism. The award nominations do need citations, though. -- GentlemanGhost  (converse)  01:00, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

tl;dr
It has to be said. This article is a huge, overlong, overdetailed, unreferenced description of a relatively obscure play. Many of the things said are unreferenced. It desperately needs to be cut down. What I suggest is that this is stripped down only to things that a reference can be found for, and then we allow it to grow again. DJ Clayworth (talk) 20:17, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Wholehearted agree. 98.248.33.198 (talk) 21:00, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

I worked at the Cider Mill Playhouse as a lighting tech.

I attended rehearsals. I did the shows. I practiced the effects.

The actors are my friends and teachers.

When I first found the The Knights of the White Magnolia Wiki page

it was poorly written and nearly empty.

This play has great importance.

I tried to add a Cider Mill reference.

I am only and few hours old here.

I have written as a primary source about this play.

This was my first time at this talk page. I am very new to wiki.

I was at every performance of this play in 1978 while I worked at the Playhouse.

Have you two ever seen this play?

It is a very emotion experience.

This play in laden with meaning, more so than any other play I know of.

This play is about hidden meanings.

Do you know of the play on Wiki that has the largest summary?

Could you reveal what ratings there are other than; Low or Stub?

--Chaddington (talk) 19:07 Sept 22 2009

I added IBDB information and Awards information. I added the Cider Mill performance dates (I also happened to have worked) when the play was presented there. --Chaddington (talk) 11:12, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi Chaddington. Please remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, designed for people to get information about things they are interested in. This article suffers from a number of problems which we have to fix:
 * 1) It's too long. If an article is very long people won't read it, and won't be able to find the specific bit of information they are looking for.
 * 2) Much of the information is not verifiable. It's a rule on Wikipedia that information must be verifiable by providing references: see Verifiability and References. Personal experience doesn't count. We have to remove any information for which there isn't a reference.
 * 3) Much of the information really isn't about the play at all. E.g. "The first men to gather herds of cattle in human history may have been Africans." Everything in the article should be directly relevant to the play. Wikipedia has links so that readers can go off and find information about other subjects if they want to.
 * 4) It is especially true that any "hidden meanings" talked about have references to show that they were intended by the author and not a connection someone happened to make.

I hope that helps explain why quite a lot of this article has to be removed. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:20, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi Clayworth.
 * 1) I intend to offer information people are interested in. I hope to fix the problems. If it is to long it should be fixed. I hope to craft this summary so it is relevant informative and brief. It can be read in less than 15 minutes. It is much shorter than most Cliff Notes about a play.
 * 2) I will try to verify with references.
 * 3) This play can be viewed in a very limited manner so that all of its historic perspective is obliterated. This play begins like the creation story of the bible. It depicts the contentious brothers of a fraternal organization. It warns of the end of human civilization. The name of the Cattleman's Hotel is relevant to the story. Cattlemen began civilization. In the Cattleman's Hotel they speak of the atomic war.


 * 1) The author PRESTON JONES (1936 - 1979) is dead. I will try to unearth his intentions. I think his meanings are worthy of consideration.

I hope to improve this article to its next level of quality:Start.

Chaddington (talk) 17:45, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi. If you really want to improve this article, here are some suggestions: Wikipedia only wants things that are verifiably true. Everything else will be removed anyway. DJ Clayworth (talk) 19:42, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Remove all the things about early civlisations, about the American Civil War, and anything else not immediately connected with the play.
 * Remove all the statements about what the play represents, unless you can find a reliable source that indicates that they are what the author intended. That is especially true of the Masonic content.

(You misspelled CIVILIZATIONS. Could you correct its spelling? May I then remove this request?)

Thank you for writing back. I intend to follow your helpful advice to improve this article. I know you are a wordsmith and that this Wiki plot summary should be objective and have elements of style.
 * 1) How often can I expect your reviews?
 * 2) Will you likely check this page each day?
 * 3) Do you grant this article 'Start' quality when it has met with your approval?
 * 4) (I would like to know if have you ever seen the play?(Y/N) please answer)

I have been searching the net for better more objective information about this play.

Chaddington (talk) 21:39, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Why was reference to the play's 1978 performance at the Cider Mill Playhouse deleted? Should a list performances dates and location be listed?

Chaddington (talk) 21:42, 23 September 2009 (UTC) I think I can find references to performances at many other theaters. The success of this play on Broadway lead to its production near NYC in 1978 at a State University theater in upstate New York:

Cider Mill Playhouse From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search

The Cider Mill Playhouse, 2 South Nanticoke Avenue, Endicott, New York 13760 ~ Box Office: 607-748-7363 Year 3. 1978 Season

WINTER/SPRING 1978 The Last Meeting of the Knights of the White Magnolia by Preston Jones - March 1-4, 15-18. Directed by Christopher Catt.

74.192.149.239 (talk) 16:38, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

From a Contemporary Theatre of Dallas performance review: (Pegasus News,Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009) By Joan Arbery of Renegade Bus

At heart, Jones’ play is nostalgic for a core code even as it abolishes segregationism in the 1960s. The stooping, shuffling black janitor Ramsey-Eyes (Kenne Sparks), and the aging, white, wheelchair-bound Colonel Kincaid (John S. Davies), grasp a deeper, mythical code in their compassionate interactions with one another — one that transcends racial differences.

Yet Moreno’s true success in this staging comes less from the humor, which is palpable enough, and more from the chaotic ravings he sees from Davies’ Kincaid. Shell-shocked from the First World War, Kincaid’s mind begins to unravel throughout the course of the vociferous meeting, and '''he begins to recount bloody episodes from Europe’s trenches. During these ramblings, it’s Ramsey-Eyes he wants, not the haranguing palaver of his White Magnolia brethren.''' The Magnolias slowly erode alongside Kincaid’s descent into incoherence. They can’t shore themselves up against the loss of the hotel in which they meet (owned by Kincaid) or against the fact that a black man is Kincaid’s truest friend. When both Kincaid and the Magnolias exit the premises, Ramsey-Eyes’ own code takes over. 74.192.149.239 (talk) 17:07, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I have removed the things you wrote about the themes of this play, as you added not a single reference to support them. The two statements you reference do not in any way back up your interpretation of the play. Please read Original research which explains why your opinions on the meaning of the playy cannot be accepted. Do not put these or any other opinions about the play back in the article.

If you have reliable references that show the legitimacy and correctness of the interpretation you give, then please place them on this page before you add anything.

You can if you wish add purely factual information such as a character list, or statements directly sourced from reviews or such like. Thank you. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:20, 28 September 2009 (UTC)