Talk:The Lawsuit (opera)

Requested move 10 November 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved. No consensus for move. Not moved. Consensus against moving. Natg 19 (talk) 01:24, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

The Lawsuit (opera) → The Lawsuit – revert undiscussed move – Dohn joe (talk) 18:00, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). EdJohnston (talk) 18:17, 10 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment: Needs a discussion. 'The Lawsuit' could refer either to the opera or to the short story by Gogol on which it is based. Editors need to decide on the best scheme for disambiguation. There's also a recently created page, Lawsuit (disambiguation). EdJohnston (talk) 18:17, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose thanks User:EdJohnston, moved per common sense and WP:MOVE; the The Lawsuit (Gogol) is the original work on which the opera is based, it didn't have an article, I made one, therefore time to move the derived work out. Google Books results for Lawsuit + Gogol Page 10 of about 1,700 results (0.83 seconds) compare Lawsuit + Nesterova Page 3 of about 248 results (0.46 seconds) so to have this as the majority topic would be contrary to what the primary topic guideline says. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:26, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose per EdJohnston. -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 08:50, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Support. The Lawsuit (Gogol) is not an article - it's a redirect to a stub article created by In ictu yesterday, The Order of the Vladimir, Third Class. Both the article and redirect were created after In ictu had done the original move. Given that, we won't know what the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is between the play fragment and the opera for a while. Either way, The Lawsuit should not redirect to lawsuit, which is the move made by In ictu. It should point to the opera article, the play fragment redirect, or a separate disambiguation page, per WP:THE. Also, since this title was recently moved without discussion, a no consensus result means reverting to the previous status quo. Dohn joe (talk) 16:30, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * So what? Hurricane isn't an article. You evidently don't understand WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, you seem to think it is WP:PRIMARYTITLE. It isn't - and The Lawsuit (Gogol) is actually a longer article than The Lawsuit (opera) (...what on earth length of article has to do with anything..). In ictu oculi (talk) 19:18, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * But I am impressed with your sudden interest in Russian opera. How did you find that I'd created an article on the Gogol play on which the opera was based? In ictu oculi (talk) 19:21, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Um, View history...? Dohn joe (talk) 19:32, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * You're not making any sense. What does Hurricane redirecting to Tropical Cyclone have to do with the price of tea in China? There's something called WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT for that situation. Dohn joe (talk) 19:32, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Right, so here WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT (since there is no absolute majority topic) takes "The Lawsuit" to the dab page listing both the Gogol play and the opera based on the Gogol play. So what's your problem with the present set up? In ictu oculi (talk) 04:02, 12 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Oppose. This discussion will benefit from clarifying a few things. Gogol's "Lawsuit" text is just a fragment from longer work he never completed. The longer work was to be titled The Order of Vladimir, Third Class, but this is only known through the fragments later collected, so I'm not sure the article now at The Order of Vladimir, Third Class is really the best way to present this information. Additionally, there's the matter that the main translation of these fragments, by Constance Garnett, calls it "A Lawsuit", not "The Lawsuit" (I can't find it online, but see the contents here:) Various subsequent works have followed Garnett's titling, but other modern works do refer to the fragment as "The Lawsuit". Additionally, Nesterova's opera appears to be more obscure than Gogol's piece, even though it just debuted 6 years ago. Now that we have an article that mentions Gogol's work (or at least, that could be reasonably expanded to do so), it makes sense to use disambiguation.
 * In this case, the encyclopedia will benefit if editors redirect their energy from titling concerns toward improving these articles.--Cúchullain t/ c 22:57, 18 November 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.