Talk:The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen/Archive 1

Hyde killing Griffin
Does Hyde actually rape Griffin? I was under the impression that he dismembered him... Ignus 23:35, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Nope. Raped him to death.Gnrlotto


 * Raped him to death? Surely he did rape him. Maybe he dismembered him later or applied on him any other lethal procedure but we never see/know what the actual cause of his death is (rape might be either a prelude or the murder itself). It is clearly not a nice death, though: the only thing we know for sure is that Griffin doesn't die instantly after Hyde's attack finished. -Piolinfax 19:48, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Hyde is seen about to rape Griffin; he also states later that Jekyll (and therefore himself also) is a homosexual. - Christian


 * There is a very clear implication that Hyde rapes Griffin; he gets down on his knees and obviously does something with his pants. (This is just as he says something to the effect of "I don't believe I've felt this chipper in quite a while.") As to he and Jekyll being homosexual, he offhandedly comments that "Henry sometimes thought about men while he touched himself" (or something like that). This is not the same thing as saying that he is gay. Even assuming it means that he is, Hyde and Jekyll very obviously do not share every aspect of either's mind or personality. I felt that he did it more to punish Griffin (for hurting Mina) than out of his own longings. -DynSkeet (talk) 21:09, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

Well, yes, but Hyde is the embodiement of Jekyll's dark side - surely something that Jekyll considered a sin - and tried to rid himself of - would be fully develeoped in Hyde? -Christian


 * Possibly, but not necessarily. If Hyde engaged in everything that Jekyll considered sinful, then he wouldn't have had time to actually join the League. -DynSkeet (talk) 15:03, 14 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Hyde isn't seen about to rape Griffin, we pretty much encounter them mid-coitus. Also, in the book, the Invisible man only turned visible again after he died (blood and all) so it would make sense for him to die of the rape.  Loggically, Hyde is about ten or twelve feet high, so one can conclude he would have a penis of about the size of a loaf of bread (at the least), end-to-end and width-wise, and using that to penetrate an average sized man (Griffin) he would kill him in the process.Gnrlotto


 * Thank you for that imagery. Khanartist  00:54, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Had to put it in perspective for those who couldn't see how Hyde raping Griffin could kill him. Could have been a lot more graphic, but I chose restraint.Gnrlotto


 * I don't think the rape alone killed him. Hyde brutally snapped Griffin's leg before raping him, and I had concluded that he probably subjected him to quite a period of assault, both physical and sexual. -DynSkeet (talk) 21:00, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

So you didn't hear the story of the guy who was killed in Washington after being sexed up by a horse?Gnrlotto


 * WHAT?* seriously,WHAT??- Christian R.R.

Well, don't know how long the links'll be up, but here ya go:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8589349/

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002382718_horse15m.html

Gnrlotto

In answer to 'Does Hyde actually rape Griffin?' Note that later in the story, Nemo is interrupted when saying "Griffen is dead!  That vile monster..." by Hyde who says "I attended to his END. Please be assured that it was... comfortable." Certainly Hyde (and author Moore) intended that to be a double entendre.

Rape is Rage an Hate driven rather than Sexually motivated, take Prison Rape for example, it is more related to establishing dominanace rather to seek gratification.

All League's characters

 * Hope no one mind's that I'm posting this at the top. I'm thinking we should divide the list of League members, main members only, among the different book entries we have. For instance League Vol.1 would list Quartermain, Hyde/Jekyll, Griffin, Murray, Campion, Mycroft, Nemo, in one main entry then an entry for league associates but only if they're in that particular volume. So, that means the Gulliver League would be moved to the Fanny Hill Sequel entry, and so on and so forth. The timeline I think has the best entries of league members and references and I think those entries belong there since it spans the entire timeline. Let's not edit anything until we have a discussion about it first.FourtySixNtwo 08:12, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I wonder if anybody would be good enough to help me compile a list of all League characters and/or references, and where they came from? This list includes characters only refered to. So far I have:

James Bond - Casino Royale by Ian Fleming (Campion Bond appears to have been named after Ian Fleming's James Bond. Several lines from the James Bond movies are directed towards him; "Ah, Mr. Bond. Do come in. I've been expecting you.")

Miss Wilhelmina Murray - Dracula by Bram Stoker

Jonathan Harker - Dracula by Bram Stoker (Mina's husband is only refered to.)

Captain Nemo - 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne

Count Dracula - Dracula by Bram Stoker (Count Dracula is refered to several times; one such instance is in volume 2 when Mina and Hyde are talking in the Inn.)

James Moriarty - The Final Problem by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

M - Casino Royale by Ian Fleming (It appears that Campion Bond's superior is refered to as 'M' in a reference to James Bond)

Mycroft Holmes - The Adventure of the Greek Interpreter by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Allan Quatermain - King Solomon's Mines by H. Rider Haggard

Umslopogaas - King Solomon's Mines by H. Rider Haggard (Captain Nemo says that Quartermain talks about Umslopogaas in his sleep)

Chevalier Auguste Dupin - The Murders in the Rue Morgue by Edgar Allen Poe

Dr. Henry Jekyll - The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde by Robert Louis Stevenson

Mr. Edward Hyde - The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde by Robert Louis Stevenson

Hawley Griffin - The Invisible Man by HG Wells

Lemuel Gulliver - Guliiver's Travels by Jonathan Swift (Gulliver appears in a portrait of a former League)

Reverend Doctor Christopher Syn - Doctor Syn: A Tale of Romney Marsh by Russel Thorndike (Dr Syn appears in a portrait - see above)

Fu Manchu - The Mystery of Dr. Fu Manchu by Sax Rohmer

Ishmael - Moby-Dick by Herman Melville

Mitchell - EastEnders (The Street Urchins led by the Artful Dodger appear to be the ancestor of EastEnders characters)

The Artful Dodger - Oliver Twist by Charles Dickens

Watts - EastEnders (See above)


 * I would highly recommend the external links listed at the end of the article. Several people have made great progress towards compiling a list like you describe. -DynSkeet (talk) 21:11, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

I would just adding some more characters:

Sherlock Holmes - appears in a fighting scene at Reichenbach waterfall (The League of Extraordinary Gentleman Volume 1), an explicit tribute to the Reichenbach fighting scene between Sherlock Holmes and Prof. James Moriarty in "The Adventure of the Final Problem", by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

Dr. Alphonse Moreau and Edward Prendrick - The Island of Dr. Moreau by H.G Wells (The League of Extraordinary Gentleman Volume 2)

John Carter and Lt. Gullivar Jones - Gulliver of Mars by Edwin Lester Linden Arnold (The League of Extraordinary Gentleman Volume 2)

The Robots of "War of The Worlds" by H.G Wells (The League of Extraordinary Gentleman Volume 2)

Agus elex 2005 20:00, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I edited this wiki two years ago to change the information regarding the character named Gulliver. This is not the Gulliver of Gullivers Travels as most would assume, but rather the space explorer Gulliver see: "The Stars My Destination is, in one sense, a science-fiction adaption of Alexandre Dumas' The Count of Monte Cristo. It is the study of a man completely lacking in imagination or ambition, Gulliver Foyle. Fate transforms "Gully" Foyle in an instant; shipwrecked in space, then abandoned by a passing luxury liner, Foyle becomes a monomaniacal and sophisticated monster bent upon revenge. Wearing many masks, learning many skills, this "worthless" man pursues his goals relentlessly; no price is too high to pay." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.18.235.227 (talk) 21:17, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Absence of Sherlock Holmes and Dracula
The article currently states:

"Sherlock Holmes and Dracula are notably absent from the League's adventures, though the former appears in a flashback sequence and the latter's connections to Mina Murray do not go unnoticed. Holmes is still believed by the public to be deceased following the events of "The Final Problem". Moore has noted that he felt these two seminal characters would overwhelm the rest of the cast, thus making the book a lot less fun."

Can anyone direct readers to the source of Moore's statement?


 * Well, personal conversation with me, for one thing. jessnevins 8:37, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe the anon poster means that we need a citation for the statement, since it appears to be paraphrasing an actual utterance by Moore. Simply claiming that you're Jess Nevins and that your source is a personal conversation (not that I doubt that your claim is legitimate) isn't a form of verifiable citation.  Can you point to something in print that verifies the statement that Moore is claimed to be making? Canonblack 16:01, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay--he said it in the interview with me which was published in my book, Heroes & Monsters (2003). Page 224. jessnevins 12:39, 23 August 2006

Dispute about League Membership: Holmes & Moriarty
There have been several to-and-fros about Sherlock Holmes' and Professor Moriarty's membership in the league. Are they members or are they simply prominent characters?

Sherlock Holmes
In my opinion, we cannot regard Holmes as a member. He might have helped the League on some occasions, but he was never an official member - he was not one of the team Ms. Murray recruited, and he was not involved in forming the League. His character is obviously improtant to the plot, but so is, for example, Dr. Moreau - and he is not considered a League member, is he?


 * Actually, if you examine the scene between Holmes and Moriarty in Swiss, you will notice that Holmes's cigarrette case has the League symbol on it. Apparently he was a member. Saltyseaweed 03:59, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * That does not prove he was a member, only that he knew of their existance. He was NOT part of the Victorian league (he did not help or appear to them in any way) and he wasn't even born when the other earlier leagues existed so how can he be considered a member? he's at best an affiliate like Dupin. --Nubula 09:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * We should present the information given by Moore--including, if we think it's relevant, the fact that Holmes has a League cigarette case--and not speculate beyond that. Nareek 11:48, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * And just how pray tell, If I may be so bold as to inquire, does that disprove my point that his cigarette case proves he knew about them nothing more, otherwise we might as well say Duplin was a member, he knew about them and did much more to aid them than Holmes ever did! And for that matter why are Baron Munchhausen, Bond and Mycroft Holmes mentioned as members? The baron’s connection is unknown at this point and Campion Bond and Mycroft Holmes merely gave them instructions at best, deliberately withheld information and used them all as pawns at worst. --Nubula 13:05, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Quite true--we should stick to what's given in all cases. I guess my one quibble with you is that we don't know that Holmes is an "affiliate" either--it's possible he was in some undisclosed version of the League; we just don't know. Nareek 13:17, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * "we don't know that Holmes is an "affiliate" either" You've made a good point there, I admit. Nubula 13:39, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Professor Moriarty
How can the antagonist of the series be considered a member of the protagonists' group? Yes, he did order the formation of the League, but he never helped them, did he? Someone like Griffin, for example, who turned into an antagonist later on, is definitely a member as he was also officially recruited. But Moriarty? I know that this reference is not a proper source, but consider the film version. Moriarty was never considered a League member there, was he? --NorkNork 11:29, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Movie
"The film met with lackluster response, as many fans felt that the complex, highly literary storyline had been oversimplified to create a basic action flick which was more in favor with the general American public."

This is contradictory. Reads like "The film was not popular because it was made more popular." Needs grammar fix or clarification. Also uneccisarily stereotypes the "general American public" which is a pseudo-nonsense term.


 * Not really. The movie sought to appeal to the general public by watering it down and thereby alienated the fans (of the comic).Saltyseaweed 04:00, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't the movie get it's own page? The movie and the comic are vastly different and it would help to cut down on the article size.--Virulent 78 14:11, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I came here via a link from Sean Connery's page, looking for info about the film.  Looks like there is enough here to move over to The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (movie) without needing a stub.  JP Godfrey 16:31, 18 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I have split the movie section off to The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (movie). Someone with more knowledge of the comic book series should take a look and prob re-write the opening paragraph.  JP Godfrey 10:06, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Detailed information
The summaries fo the first two miniseries could stand to be summarized for succinctly. Additionally, we shouldn't list everything referenced in the almanac. For one, there's already a link to annotations to the series that explain every single reference. If anythign we should just list four or five examples from each issue. WesleyDodds 04:04, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * You're right, length has gotten to be a problem on this page, and associated pages. Some of us were discussing this issue and possible solutions over in the talk for The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen timeline. We had some good thoughts, then no one's had time to implement them. Maybe you'd have some more suggestions? Scarlet Lioness 14:26, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it's important to keep in mind that these pages aren't supposed to be a supplement for reading the books. A similar problem has occured on with the Infinite Crisis page, but that's been clean up.  Certainly we can spoil the plot for the miniseries, but details should be kept to basics.  Additionally, a lot of the stuff from the almanac has been written about in Jess Nevins' annotations and book, which I think makes the list unnecessarily large and possibly in violation of copyright.  WesleyDodds 05:50, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I was thinking the same thing, especially because some of the wording of the annotations has been duplicated here. I'd prefer that, if my annotations are to be copied here, only four or five examples per issue are copied. Jess Nevins 20:41, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Um, the list of locations is *ridiculously* long and unneccessary, isn't it? ThatGuamGuy 00:09, 26 August 2006 (UTC)sean

The Courtship of the Yonghy-Bonghy-Bò
No castle is mentioned in he poem. The Yonghy-Bonghy-Bò lives in the middle of the woods. He finds lady Jingly sitting on a little heap of stones.

And there is nothing to show that this is Europe. The Yonghy-Bonghy-Bò walks among the Bong-trees. When rejected he flees across the Bay of Gurtle to the sunset isles of Boshen. One gets the impression that England is far, far away. We are in the same fantasy landscape where several other of Lear's poems are set. No doubt the Chankly Bore and the Gromboolian Plain are not far away. Certainly not an island off the coast of Portugal.

Lear gives the location as the coast of Coromandel. I see no reason to doubt that the real place is intented. Why else use the name? India was (and is) far away and very alien as seen from his readers' point of view. A place where such things as Bong-trees could be imagined to exist.


 * My bad about the castle. But I was just going off of Jess Nevins' A Blazing World, page 98, which says: "There is a real Coromandel, the south-eastern coastal region of India, but this Coromandel is the fictional one, with Yonghi-Bonghi of Bo from Edward Lear’s 'The Courtship of Yonghi-Bonghi of Bò' (Laughable Lyrics, 1877), one of Lear's great nonsense rhymes." Now, this may be wrong, but considering that on Jess Nevins' annotations website these annotations are all gone over by many, many sets of eyes and brains, I'm either going to go with A) they figured some very good reason why this is referencing a fictional place in Europe, and/or B) since I'm not very inclined to believe that Moore would have made a mistake like this, and since the real Coromandel is not in Portugal, then it would only stand to reason that the Coromandel being discussed here is a fictional one, intentionally or not - Therefore I'm more inclined to give Allan Moore (His All-Mighty Shagginess) the benefit of the doubt and hold that he was not mistaken; that for some reason, contextual or his own, he chose to put a fictional Coromandel in Portugal - maybe as an inside joke, maybe on a whim, or whathaveyou. Then again, I still could be wrong. --Khat Wordsmith 04:44, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Two comic limited series
Not to nit-pick, and I do know what you mean to say, but the phrase "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is a two comic book limited series" falsely implies that it is a single limited series comprised of two comic books. Perhaps it could be rephrase as "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is comprised of two limited series of comic books".--RedKnight 14:36, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

vinyl record/cd companion to the Black Dossier?
I remember reading on an older column of Rich Johnston's "LitG" that Alan Moore himself was in a studio recording material for an LP to accompany "the Black Dossier". In more recent news, some DC editor mentioned that the HC would be released with an audio CD. Well, not according to this (official) solicitation :

'' Written by Alan Moore; Art and Cover by Kevin O'Neill

Acclaimed writer Alan Moore once again joins forces with artist Kevin O'Neill for THE BLACK DOSSIER — a stunning original hardcover graphic novel that is the next chapter in the fantastic saga of THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN!

England in the mid-1950s is not the same as it was. The powers that be have instituted some changes. The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen have been disbanded and disavowed, and the country is under the control of an iron-fisted regime. Now, after many years, the still youthful Mina Murray and a rejuvenated Allan Quatermain return in search of some answers — answers that can only be found in a book buried deep in the vaults of their old headquarters — a book that holds the key to the hidden history of the League throughout the ages: The Black Dossier. As Allan and Mina delve into the details of their precursors, some dating back centuries, they must elude their dangerous pursuers who are hellbent on retrieving the lost manuscript…and ending the League once and for all.

THE BLACK DOSSIER is an elaborately designed, cutting-edge volume that includes a "Tijuana Bible" insert and a 3-D section complete with custom glasses, as well as additional text pieces, maps, and a stunning cutaway double-page spread of Captain Nemo's Nautilus submarine by Kevin O'Neill. Don't miss what's sure to be one of the most talked-about books of 2006!

America's Best Comics |  208pg. | Color  |  Hardcover  |  $29.99 US  |  Mature Readers

On Sale October 25, 2006

''

Anyone know what will happen with this? I would hate it if they left the LP/cd until the Absolute version; it would be a cheat. --Haris 01:51, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Here's what I have found on this:

LitG: Monday May 23, 2005 "He continues, "It will be nothing anyone expects, but everything everyone secretly wanted." It's unusual to hear such hyperbole from one more commonly associated with self-deprecation. It's nearing completion and Moore tells me he was in a recording studio last week, working on part of it. Yes, that intrigued me too, though Moore refused to be drawn past the tantalising glimpse he'd deliberately dropped."

LitG: Monday November 14, 2005 "Final Wildstorm "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen," "The Black Dossier," multiformat, check (there's a CD in there as well.)"

Reports from the Wondercon 2006 convention: CBR and newsarama. Scott Dunbier mentions the Black Dossier, but doesn't mention anything about a cd/lp.

According to this site (and according to the user) cyrille Mey on the Millarworld.com Forum "I've just talked with Kevin O'Neill about the new LoEG, "Dark Dossier", which will be a big story jumping all over the place from the dawn of time to the 50's. Remember the first "new" LoEG announcement where Moore mentioned he was going in a recording studio? It's for a record which will be sold with the book, including songs performed by (50's) characters of the book, Moore does the singing, à la Roy Orbson, american accent and all"

Then, follows a dead link to the Mark Millar forum.

All of the information I recall, has been archived here. I think I recall Scott Dunbier (a Wildstorm/ABC/DC editor) mentioning an audio cd, but I can't find it anywhere online. So, will they be releasing a cd/lp after all? Will there be an Absolute edition of the Black Dossier? If yes, are they waiting for that, to release the cd? I emailed Rich Johnston, Jess Nevins and others about that, but have not received any replies yet. --Haris 05:40, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


 * 28th July 2006: From Alan Moore in Wizard #179 (September)

Alan Moore said about The Black Dossier: "Kevin is putting the last few touches to it at the moment. It's got none of the things in it that anyone would ask for, but after they've seen it, it will have been all of the things that they secretly wanted. It's this wonderful compendium of stuff, and there's all kinds of cute give-away things including a 7-inch vinyl single and a 3-D section at the end, which I think will hopefully astound people. You not going to believe this, this has got everyone in it. It's not Book 3 of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen; we've yet to start that, but that will be coming out sometime next year from our new publisher Top Shelf." --Haris 05:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Lying in the Gutters, Aug. 14 2006: There have been enquiries as to the status of the audio element to "League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Black Dossier" that had previously been discussed, but not on the solicitation. I understand that, due to size constraints, it will be released on vinyl as part of the Absolute edition next summer.

"It's a source book that's gotten completely out of hand. It's set in 1958 and will include a record and a section in 3-D. It will be my last work for mainstream American comics."''
 * 8/29/2006: USATODAY dot com: ''On the upcoming League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Black Dossier


 * 9/24/2006: All the Rage column at SBCBs : '' We have an update; DC has decided to resolicit the book at a later date and it will now include a recording with Alan Moore involved in some capacity.

Why the book was solicited without the CD or LP and how this changed, we do not know. All I know is I would not want to piss of the Magus (or his fans) and I am glad that this is being rectified.

This Has A “He Has A Scary Voice” Factor Of Ten Out Of Ten ''

Discussions on this:

Removing 'World of the League'
Is it worth removing the 'World of the League' section to a new article seeing as it takes up nearly 2/3 of the current text? Though I suppose there's already The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen timeline and it's probably better not to have the information flung far and wide. I'll have a crack at condensing some of the info though it looks like some of it will be a matter of opinion on what's "important".


 * Personaly, I'm in favor of moving it to its own page. As further league volumes are published its just going to get longer and longer. Also I think we should also have a complete list, rather than just "important" parts, otherwise why have it at all. --81.131.29.235 21:46, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

The World of the League
Since this article is about twice as long as it should be, I've split off the section about the world into The World of the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. I suggest that we remove that part from the main article; as it is, it takes up almost half the article's length. Nareek 11:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Whoops--I didn't check the previous discussion before posting. Anyway, check it out, see if it works. If we delete the section from the main article, we should leave a little stub with a main article reference leading to the spin-off. Nareek 11:22, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

New entries for the summaries
The entry as it stands, even after the "Worlds of LoEG" was broken off, is still pretty long. Any strong feelings about breaking off the summaries of the two volumes into two separate entries? This would allow more thorough indexing of the various references in the book. Additionally, I changed "laser weaponry" to "Heat-Ray" in the summary for Vol.2 because that's what Wells (or his narrator) called it, and because it's not a laser, which wasn't invented until the 1950s.Cheeselouise 05:47, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Personaly i think it would be better to move the indexing of the various references to their own page and leave volumes one and two, along with the history of the league here. Nubula 13:54, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Split the article further ?
I wonder if all the material about other leagues should be put into one article, and the details of the story of the two series in another ? -- Beardo 22:39, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I support that. Icarus 23 01:47, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I support that too. I did stand against it originaly but, despite my reservations, I can see no other alternitive. Not with new volumes about to be published and a flood of new information about to come in. Something has to be moved somewhere. Nubula 11:13, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Spoiler warning
I don't know what is the solution, but placement of spoilers' warning is not at all good. It starts before History section and ends just before Appendices. IMHO, we can use multiple spoiler warning templates and use one pair in every section. Since I am not very familiar with the subject here, please any knowledgeable person do this....--  Anupamsr | talk | contribs  19:49, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Les Hommes Mystérieux
"Considering that the first three of these characters are thieves or conquerors, Les Hommes Mystérieux may actually be a Legion of Doom-style villain team"

The british League also has three characters that were considered villains, so this theory has flaws. GeorgeBP 13:49, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

More Info on Volume 3
This page has information on the 3rd volume of LoEG, it contains info on Mina's second league and the plots of the three issues (you have to scroll down half the page):http://www.topshelfcomix.com/catalog.php?type=13 Someone could use this info to update sections of the article


 * I'll be making a major update in this article in the next days. I'm also going to remove many quotes and adapt them to a more enciclopedic language. There are far too many quotes and little enciclopedic information. GeorgeBP 14:35, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I added Carnacki, I wanted to add Dracula too, because he seems to be on the cover of Vol.3. There is, however, no confirmation other than the picture. It sure as heck looks like him though, the cape the tux and that Sword. FourtySixNtwo 23:52, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Moore said he wouldn't use Dracula. The characters that will appear in that story as confirmed members of the League are Allan Jr., Mina Murray, A. J. Raffles and Orlando. Allan is the second from the left, Mina is in the center. The guy on the left is probably Campion Bond. The two guys on the right are A. J. Raffles and Orlando.GeorgeBP 16:48, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Campion Bond is in that bubble next to Ishmael and above Broad Arrow Jack. The guy to the right of Allan is without a doubt Carnacki, he's got his "electric Pentacle" there with him. I know Moore didn't want to use anyone with "superpowers" or anything like that but the guy in the Cape doesnt have Orlando's beauty mark usually appearing on his left Cheek, could be a resolution thing but I dont know.FourtySixNtwo 02:04, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, you're right. That's Carnacki. I hadn't even noticed the pentacle. I'll put him officialy on Mina's Second League, if you haven't done it already. GeorgeBP 16:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey, George, about the 50's League entry, I dont think the Paradise/Moriarty league is the same as the failed 50's league, just because the few times Moore has mentioned the failed league he always refers to its length as "a couple of pages" or an "account". When refering to the Sal Paradise team-up he refers to it as a "Novel". He also mentions drawing from alot of Spyfiction, from that era I suppose, which wouldn't be Sal and Moriarty, who are beat characters, they'd be British pulp/spy Characters. I don't think the entry needs changing but I just wanted to comment on it.FourtySixNtwo 20:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Totally agree, I think it is clear from Alan Moore's interviews that the 1950s League that team up with Sal Paradise is Mina and A.J. (and maybe Orlando), after they have gone underground. And the replacement league set up by MI5 is the "pathetic, failed surrogate" League which was a complete disaster. 147.252.228.188 13:40, 22 May 2007 (UTC) Damian

Is Campion Bond a nephew of Mycroft Holmes?
In the other day, somebody contributed to Japanese article the description that saying "Moore set Campion Bond as Mycroft's nephew". Is it TRUE? If it is true, who is the father of Bond? Sherlock Holmes? The contributor is claiming that Moore had referred this setting in interview about From Hell. Please teach me accurate informations if someone knows about it. --Kasuga 13:19, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't believe that is true. I did hear some talk about Campion Bond being Jimmy Bond's Uncle, but I don't think that's accurate either. I'd stick to the more substantiated claim that Campion is Jimmy's father. Unless you or someone else can directly cite the interview. The release of the Black Dossier should tell us for certain, since it is a source book for all the leagues up to WWII.FourtySixNtwo 19:29, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. I decide to delete his description. --Kasuga 15:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * But if Campion is Jimmy's father then Jimmy cannot be James Bond because James Bond's father is called Andrew Bond. Nubula 12:59, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Campion I belive is supposed to be Andrew's Father or older Brother, either will fit nicely with Bond's timeline. Can't find a source, though.


 * Campion is referred to in 'Black Dossier' by Mina Murray: "You're a little shit, just like your grandfather." This occurs right after Mina's pummeling of Jimmy Bond with the brick in her handbag when Allan appears. 129.12.237.219 (talk) 02:32, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Sherlock Holmes' Violin Playing
In the section on LoEG Volume 1, I removed the following sentence;

"and a reference to the likewise failed attempt at learning to play the violin in a day, which is a reference to Sherlock Holmes' dismal attempts at mastering the instrument in the stories by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle"

this is not correct, Holmes was a good violin player. In "A Study in Scarlet" Watson lists Holmes's abilities and point number 9 is "Plays the violin well" and in a number of stories he is well able to play the standards of his day. I think the person who posted this section must have been thinking of the movie "Young Sherlock Holmes" where the younger Holmes could not master the violin quickly.

147.252.228.188 13:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC) Damian

Black Dossier distribution issues
Seems there could be problems with Black Dossier - although Comic Book Resources can be considered a reliable source I'm not sure Lying in the Gutters can (it came up on the Comics Project and it is a little too much based on rumour and gossip - even if it almost always turns out to be right) so keep an eye out for a more solid source to emerge soon as it could be a big bit of news. (Emperor 01:11, 7 August 2007 (UTC))


 * Its not official: DC press release (Emperor 00:25, 8 August 2007 (UTC))

That Comic Book Resources article incorrectly indicates that "The US states that if a work was published before 1923, or it is 70 years since the death of the author, then it is in public domain." The statement about publications before 1923 is true, however, modern copyright law in the US, concerning expiration of copyright, does not relate to the life of the author unless it is unpublished material. I'll have to get me some books on international copyright law to read along side the Black Dossier.FourtySixNtwo 17:58, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the input. Might be worth taking this over to: Talk:The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: The Black Dossier where the information is being used (I didn't realise there was a section on it when I started this). (Emperor 13:35, 15 August 2007 (UTC))

Did Moore say he would try to extrapolate how fiction would have developed without Superman?
I seem to recall Moore once saying (in perhaps a Wizard interivew) that he would not reference characters who debuted after the emergence of Superman in creating the League, since the whole idea was to extrapolate how fiction would have developed if Superman had never debuted. If that was the case, then Campion presents a problem, since 1938 obviously came before the 1950's.

Wizard #14, 27, 52, 95, 130 Wizard: The Comics Magazine #146, 147 Enda80 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Enda80 (talk • contribs).
 * As far as I'm aware the league's universe runs right up to the present day so he'll have to use characters who came after Superman. I'd say that, at the end of the day, Superman has nothing to do with this. Nubula 09:25, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:League3.jpg
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BetacommandBot 07:30, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Duplicate content
Please tell me where the duplicate content is. There is none. The whole point of having pages for the individual volumes is to put stuff specific for them there. Should we include the plot summaries from Volume 1 and 2 here also? Should we include the timeline page here also? Should we move the character bios from the movie page here also? No, and so we don't need the section detailing the second printing of issue 5 from volume one, when the EXACT SAME INFORMATION is already on the volume 1 page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.154.65.1 (talk) 16:47, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

We are constantly updating a wonderful tool, the purpose of which is to be informative. Throughout the pages of Wikipedia, pages on WWII may include some of the same content on those on Audie Murphy, Normandy, and D-Day. The point is to serve the reader / researcher, and be informative.

Please note that similar versions of the recalled number five issue appear at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comic_book#Rarest_comic_books and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Moore#America.27s_Best_Comics.

Are you proposing that all duplicative content be removed? I find this particular story interesting, and only the publisher (and shredder of the issue) has an interest in burying it.

As a compromise and proposal, I humbly suggest the story receives a perhaps smaller reference on this page, with a link to more information. Also, please be advised that other pages link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_League_of_Extraordinary_Gentlemen#Second_press_run_on_issue_5 so other modifications will be required if it disappears in its entirety.
 * 1) You make a straw man argument. This is not about WWII. This is about a minor comic. 2) Those other mentions are on pages sufficiently different from this one to warrant them. Maybe the main Marvel page should include a list of every single interesting bit of trivia from every individual comic and issue? 3) Those links can all be fixed so that has no impact whatsoever. And your attempt to imply that I'm working for DC is laughable. I'm not the one who's anonymous. Kuralyov 03:36, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Not sure why you are taking this so personally. I proposed a compromise. Your solution is to continue an edit war. Please stop. Courtesy and civility are not signs of weakness. PS: You don't understand what a straw man argument is. My example was on point and relevant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.141.144.118 (talk) 03:56, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Please Note the Spelling
Twice in the article I found Allan Quatermain's named misspelled as 'Quartermain' (with an 'r' between the 'a' and 't'). This is INCORRECT. Please, if you wish to include his name, please make sure it is the correct spelling. In fact, there is a section of the official Allan Quatermain Wiki-article that mentions this nefariously common misspelling. Please make sure you are accurate and proof-read your edit before clicking 'Save Page.' Thank you. 129.12.237.219 (talk) 02:18, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Slaughterboard Gay?
It says somewhere in the article, "The homosexual pirate and his yellow bunkmate first appears in Captain Slaughterboard Drops Anchor". Did it say somewhere either in the New Traveler's Almanac or CSDA that he was gay? This doesn't seem correct...but I haven't read the Almanac in some time. Perhaps Moore intend this as a possible reference to the urban legend on sexual undertones in Captain Pugwash? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.243.176.166 (talk) 02:50, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

In the New Traveller's Almanac, Moore uses the term "bunkmates" to describe Slaughterboard's and his Yellow Creature's relationship. Nevins (who by no means is an ultimate authority just he makes sense) draws this conclusion in The Blazing World. It is not unlike Moore to add something like this, especially because pirates in history often engaged in homosexual activities.Spikynorman (talk) 17:23, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

"Speculative" League
The section and notes about a so-called Speculative Early 19th Century League do not belong here. There is no evidence for such a group, Moore has never mentioned a group like this, nor was there any mention of the characters in The Black Dossier which is the history of all Leagues. I'm taking it out and I suggest that any mention of this be taken out of the encyclopedia. Only factual information belongs here.Spikynorman (talk) 17:23, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required
This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject. If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class. The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject. Comics-awb (talk) 17:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Done. There are quite a few statements that are unsourced. (Emperor (talk) 17:34, 23 October 2008 (UTC))

Image copyright problem with Image:League.jpg
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Perhaps we should make character pages...
At least for Mina and Allan. I know they are based on their literary counterparts, but League of Extraordinary Gentlemen has had enough issues now that they've developed their own "comic" history. It would be useful for new readers and could highlight major differences between their literary counterpart (which shouldn't be on the counterparts actual page), major events (such as how they became immortal in the pool), etc. As for notability, well almost every comic character in existence has a page on wiki, so...24.190.34.219 (talk) 00:14, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree very much. --BryonyTemple (talk) 10:27, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Fan material or websites.
Does anyone know of any good fan websites out there? I've trawled the internet, and I'm wondering if there are some I've missed - or if a site has a good League discussion/fan-material section. Even if they're not the sort of thing that can go on the main-page, I'd really like to know because I'm frankly bored of reading Edward-Cullen-joins-with-Hermonine-Granger pieces on fanfiction.net and want to know if there is something of quality out there that I could read. The Wold Newton stuff just doesn't have the same "feel". Ionnes87 (talk) 01:19, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The only ones I'd recommend are under the external links section. Do you want to start a League discussion forum? MartinSFSA (talk) 08:08, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Not really. I'm no good at that sort of thing and would only produce *another* Pro-Boards fansite which would have about ten posts over half as many years. I just keep reading about how well things like Century have sold and have thought "Well there must be fan communities online somewhere - although I suppose the oft-mentioned Generation gap between the people who are buying the graphic novel and the people who swarm online might have something to do with it, eh? Ionnes87 (talk) 13:05, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Racism in comic
That comic is full of racism. 87.139.61.151 06:21, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


 * This is true. There are many period racist terms used throughout the first 2 books (I haven't read the others yet), but I wouldn't say the books cast their use in a good light or sought to make them seem justified or okay. If I remember correctly Hyde, called the embodiment of evil many times in the series, seemed to be the most frequent user of such terms. To be frank, thats probably how people talked back then, political correctness is something that only started to appear on a large scale after the 1960's. Lando242 (talk) 09:44, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

This is...sort of the point. The comic is full of racism only because of the fact that the time period of which it's in calls for it. Mr. Hyde is actually the only one who really refers to anyone by an ethnic slur (though Mina takes a potshot at Prussians in Vol. 2 and Allan refers to Golliwog as something iffy, if I recall correctly). But this is the point. As Lando said, they're obviously not going to be politically correct in the slightest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.217.232.167 (talk) 21:54, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I see no reason to consider it racist; Hyde confesses that he hates and despises everyone with the exception of Miss Murray, thus he would not hesitate to use such imprecations, and the writers would not discard realism for PC policies in a series clearly aimed at a more erudite readership than usual. I doubt that anyone with innate racist attitudes would bother to portray black people among the ordinary people of Britain in the 19thc. as this does.

Much research has gone into this series, and the attitude of Hyde is as accurate reflection of the times as are those of Quatermain and Murray. Tarquin Q. Zanzibar 02:09, 5 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by El Badboy! (talk • contribs)