Talk:The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask/Archive 1

Masks
Well, now that I've made a more indepth mask section, can I delete the previous one, or is mine a bit too much?
 * The previous section probably shouldn't be completely deleted. I combined the two for now. --Matteh 01:32, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

i think there should be a list of masks added to this section Tyler9090 04:53, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * We do not need a list of masks. GameFAQs covers that well enough. - A Link to the Past (talk) 05:15, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Unless we want to cover the basic transformation masks (Deku, Goron, Zora, and maybe Feirce Diety) why bother going over every mask in the entire game? It seems like a waste of space for one thing, and Wikipedia is simply a breif discription of the game's plot and so on. Not a Walkthrough. Kou Nurasaka 02:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

10 feet tall?
This may be slightly unimportant, but I don't think the Fierce Diety mask makes Link 10 feet tall, this is an exaggeration. The Fierce Diety mask uses a similar player model to that of adult Link in Ocarina of Time, and adult Link isn't that tall!


 * While the Fierce Deity model is based on the Adult Link one in shape, its size is in fact much larger. Try standing next to a wall with brick work (so you have horizontal lines) such as in the room for Odalwa, the first boss, and change from Link's various forms into FD and you will notice quite a difference. He is more than twice as tall as Link, and considerably taller than Zora Link. However 10 foot is, as far as I am aware, just an estimation, and I shall reword the info for the mask and a couple of others. Ian Moody 14:46, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, if we guesstimate that Adult Link was 6ft, and Fierce Deity is even bigger as mentioned, 10 foot may not be far off, but it should be changed, not because it "sounds" wrong (a 10-ft-high person, out of context, sounds exaggerated) but since there is no unrefutable ingame proof. What would be nice is if someone with the *coughemulatedcough* game could make a screenshot montage with Child Link and Oni Link side by side, to show users the height difference. Heck, a height guesstimate could be made using that by counting the pixels!
 * So if someone could make that and make it fit nicely on the page, it would probably be very helpful. In the meantime I'll see if I can get my hands on the Oni Link promotional art I saw a while back. Master Thief Garrett 11:08, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * My bad, it's gone now. But even so a comparison shot could be nice. Master Thief Garrett 11:25, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * As a side note, everything in cyberspace has no height at all. Absolutely none. IF things had size, computers would be huge.

Stand next to someone in town, then you'll really see how tall he is.. I would say... 9 or 10 feet. Wesz 09:35, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


 * This is both difficult to verify and completely unimportant. How about we just say "large"? Deco 10:45, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

He is 10 ft tall. Using the Fierce Diety glitch (where you get to use Fierce Diety outside of dungeons), I stood next to people in town and Fierce Diety was more than twice as tall as the people. Armyrifle 03:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay unless that wall had a ruler on it there's still no way you can be sure he's 10 feet tall. He's taller and bigger i'll give you that but i don't know about ten feet. 65.124.8.131 15:39, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Oath to Order/Ode of Order
Are there versions of the game that display this song in the inventory as "Ode of Order"? I just checked my version (Zelda Collector's Edition, Gamecube) and it clearly shows "Oath to Order" after it's played and in the inventory. I found an N64 screenshot showing "Oath to Order" here. Jh51681 09:59, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Link removed per spam filter request. Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 12:55, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Not having the actual game, I relied on various hint/cheat sites to verify the correct word. I (and they) could definitely be wrong for at least some games. Maybe we should replace 'Ode' with 'Ode/Oath'? Silas Snider (talk) 04:06, Mar 7, 2005 (UTC)


 * They could be mistranslations or older versions, but I'm not sure which. A Google search for Zelda "Oath to Order" shows 600+ links, while Zelda "Ode of Order" shows only two, one of which is a dupe of this article. Jh51681 04:50, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Sometimes games (not necessarily Zelda) are revised for a different region, changing words if they are "wrong" in that region. So say a game mentioned aluminum, it'd probably be changed to aluminium for non-US countries. However I don't think Oath/Ode would be inapplicable in ANY English-speaking country...


 * There was some de-religion-ising in revised versions of OOT (removal of Muslim symbol, alteration of song based off Muslim chant, etc.) so it could be that this game too had content changed. Maybe someone thought "Ode" alluded to praying to/singing to a god or something like that, I don't know.


 * So one of those is possibly the answer. You could always ask at the 1964 emulator forum or something, and I'm sure they'd tell you which ROM revisions featured it, and whether or not it had been altered for the GC versions. Master Thief Garrett 11:22, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I know this is a year late, but if anybody is wondering, this is probably because the spanish version of the game does, in fact, read "Ode to Order" (note the to, not of). The other song name change I can recall is that "New Wave Bossa Nova" was simply "New Bossa Nova". By the way, as far as I have seen, there wasn't any removal of anything in Majora's Mask... which is probably why it feels so "dark". Maybe just the translation of 'Oni' to 'Fierce Deity', but Fierce Deity actually SOUNDS darker (it's just a fancy way of saying "evil god", after all.) --User:Revoish 14:09, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Erm...yeah, but he wasn't called "Oni Link" in Japanese, it was called "Kishin Link" Cutepresea 04:07, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Lack of Screenshots
It'd be nice if someone could take some shots of the game, preferably with your console hooked to the computer through a TV tuner (although, a rom would be an alright alternative). :3 -- A Link to the Past 23:25, July 10, 2005 (UTC)


 * Emulated screenshots are the purest and the ideal, as long as the game is run at original resolution (640x480?) and with all enhancements (Super2xSaI, antialiasing, etc.) turned off.
 * Alternately, using unwatermarked press pack screenshots would be fine, but of course then it's limited to only what Ninty screenshotted. GarrettTalk 23:36, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
 * What about the TV tuner idea? I mean, if it could be done, shouldn't it be done as such? -- A Link to the Past 00:10, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Using a TV tuner passes the graphics through several lossy transformations, resulting in a marked decrease in quality. Emulation screenshots are better as long as the emulator is accurate. High density or progressive scan output is also better for very recent games which support it, but requires more expensive TV tuners to capture. Deco 10:48, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

What is Zelda Gaiden??
"Gaiden" means "sidestory" (approximately) in Japanese. It was the development title for Majora's Mask. (It is, after all, a sidestory.) Setokaiba 07:30, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Wasn't THe Legend of Zelda Gaiden originally for the 64DD as an expansion for the Ocarina of Time, (like the Ura Zelda), Zelda Gaiden, would include a different overworld and a new adventure. And the project was cancelled due to the lack of popularity of the 64DD, Nintendo decided just to make Zelda Gaiden a stand alone game the Majora's Mask. And the Ura Zelda was added to a special 'Master Quest' for Gamecube.

This website would explan it better http://www.japan-101.com/video_games/ura_zelda.htm

Interesting intentions
I may be twenty-four years old, but I am currently playing Majora's Mask, and due to this, I have attained knowledge that I am positive will be informative and rewarding to this article. Also, I am a Wikipedian who contributes to articles that eventually receive featured article status, this desire coming from improving Wikipedia on a daily basis. This is a campaign I have started outside Wikipedia boundaries. So first and foremost, this article should begin citing its sources and references. --Hollow Wilerding 14:51, 12 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I can't see what references or sources one would need to add or cite (except maybe the EGM award, one can cite where they found that information). The Wikipedians probably wrote this entire article on their own, from their own knowledge of the game. I, myself, know enough about the game to write an article like this one. -- RattleMan 15:52, 12 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Some of what you have edited thus far is...somewhat odd. For one, you erased the "Fixed 3d|3D" pipe, so now it just says "Fixed 3d", which looks bad. Second, on the Ocarina Songs, you decapitalized all the first letter after the &mdash-es. They need to be caps. That's what I found so far by skimming your edits. Other parts you changed look good so far. -- RattleMan 16:16, 12 November 2005 (UTC)


 * "3D" is unnecessary, as it is too vague compared to "Fixed 3d", which gives the reader a better vision of the game's appearance. Also, the "caps lock on the first letters" is not true standard English, but your point will not be ignored, as it does make some sense. Now on to the issue with references: if no references are added to the article, then it will not be able to achieve featured status. Looking at the article as a whole right now, I would add references for what is presumed in the game, like the fact that the beginning of the game could be located in the Lost Woods. There should also be a reference of the storyline, for readers (and whiny Wikipedians) not to assume that we have made it up. Believe me, I had a friend who went through the featured article process, and it was no walk in the park for her. You might want to check out Mariah Carey, where practically every line is being referenced. --Hollow Wilerding 17:28, 12 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I have accomplished excessive editing and removed the "Trivia" section from the article, which is better suited for a fan site or something along the lines of that. I will be seeking references and hope to finish the article in time for a nomination in the near future. --Hollow Wilerding 17:53, 12 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Good luck. I'll give the article a look-over and see if I can do anything with it. -- RattleMan 18:40, 12 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Does anyone know where I can access images from the video game? I'm quite stumped with internet locations (regrettably). --Hollow Wilerding 14:02, 19 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I have located a minimal number of images. --Hollow Wilerding 20:33, 20 November 2005 (UTC)


 * What images do you still need? I can try to get some. -- RattleMan 20:57, 20 November 2005 (UTC)


 * An image of Deku Link would be admirable &mdash; since the main character spends the beginning of the game in this form, I find it rather acceptable for its presence. If that can't be found on the internet, then perhaps an image of one of the side characters (Romani, Anju, Kafei, Gorman, etc.) or one of the landscape to exhibit Termina's soils and grounds. Then there's the greedy me who would prefer both. Those are just my suggestions, but I do think that they would add the most variety. --Hollow Wilerding 00:50, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Here's some images that I got, some of them have bad brightness, but whatever...:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/5382/smaskusnap00901ru.jpg - Majora, Tatl and Tatl

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/589/smaskusnap00913yc.jpg - Deku Link with Tatl

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/73/smaskusnap00920cl.jpg - Deku Link in light

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/6822/smaskusnap00938do.jpg - Deku Link on Deku Flower

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/6215/smaskusnap00959vz.jpg - Deku Link Horror Reflection

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2228/smaskusnap00969xn.jpg - Deku Link 3rd Day Clocktower Battle

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/6835/smaskusnap01018vk.jpg - Termina Field (botched sun for some reason)

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2585/smaskusnap00985sn.jpg - Deku Link in Tatl's Light


 * "Deku Link on Deku Flower" amuses me; do you have the copyright information, RattleMan? --Hollow Wilerding


 * I believe it's . -- RattleMan 00:00, 22 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Good, good. Should I add it to any particular place in the article? --Hollow Wilerding 23:27, 24 November 2005 (UTC)


 * The copyright? When you upload the image to Wikipedia, you insert the " " in the upload summary. -- RattleMan 02:36, 25 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I was not clear enough: where should I add the image to the article? --Hollow Wilerding 21:16, 25 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Anywhere you want, I'm just supplying the images :) -- RattleMan 21:56, 25 November 2005 (UTC)


 * History has been made: the image has been added! What else should the article include? --Hollow Wilerding 02:49, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * The new image of Zora Link playing the guitar is preferrable &mdash; much thanks, RattleMan. Are there any other adjustments we should make to the article? I still recommend references; if we do not include any, then the article will be turned down in the blink of an eye at featured article nomination time. –Hollow Wilerding 19:42, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to submit this article to Featured article candidates &mdash; although I am positive that it will not succeed in its first attempt, whenever one wants a review of the article that will be useful to enhancing it, that's the place to go. Not peer review. Peer review is useless, if you ask me. &mdash;Hollow Wilerding 13:30, 3 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I've upgraded the article substantially, although I still do not feel as though it is prepared for featured article candidates, however, I am not hesitant on submitting it. Any ideas or input? &mdash;Hollow Wilerding 14:37, 3 December 2005 (UTC)


 * A useful peer review has resulted to the request I made at Peer review. I am rather impressed, since this is rarely the case. The article has improved substantially with the comments made, and I'll be addressing a few more headers and knick-knacks before I submit Majora to Featured article candidates. &mdash;Hollow Wilerding 14:23, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

ChristianAnswers?
I have one question. What on Earth is the following phrase doing in a Legend of Zelda article?


 * David Cady of ChristianAnswers commented, "The game does have a darker feel than the original, though I believe that it has improved in its morals."

Yes, it is all good and well that it has a darker feel than the original but what on Earth does its morales have to do with gameplay? Couldn't a better quote be used?

Let's have his comment put into context shall we?


 * The game does have a darker feel than the original, though I believe that it has improved in its morals. There is magic used, but not magic by witches or sorcerers. It is only used to increase your sword attack or a new arrow attack. The violence is at a minimal; there is no blood. You just fight against creatures, like giant spiders, or fish; no human harm is done. This game does teach perseverance, hard work, and compassion.
 * Source:

I think I'll go and replace that quote by David Cady with one that isn't about the Christian persepective on the game.

Wolf ODonnell 14:08, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


 * One source, regardless of what it is, is enough to verify whether a game is darker than its predecessor. If this comment is not included in the article, then objections will be raised come nomination time for featured article. Or do you believe that a better source could be located and featured in the article instead? &mdash;Hollow Wilerding 21:53, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

If you had looked at my change, you would have seen a source tagged onto it. Frankly, I don't think David Cady's quote is good, because the focus of the article was on its Christian-ness and not the game's darkness. In the meantime, I have in fact found a different one.

"In the first of our second sittings with important titles of recent years, we look at the oddest, darkest and saddest of all Zelda games" - Edge Magazine, December 2004 issue, page 121.

How's about we use that one instead? And frankly, do we really need the quote, as long as we put the reference down as I had done in my change to the article?

Wolf ODonnell 22:22, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


 * It would be preferrable to place the quote in the Notes section; when I nominate the article for featured status, I really don't want people complaining. It must be placed where it belongs, and in this case, the "Notes" is where the quote belongs. A very good quote too, I must admit! &mdash;Hollow Wilerding 14:44, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

The comment made by the ChristianAnswers user has been removed. I will not restore it. &mdash;Hollow Wilerding 01:53, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Speaking as someone who is a Christian, I know that nothing in the game bothered me. This game is very tame compared to some of the other games out there.

Featured articles
The article has improved substantially&mdash;perhaps even considerably or remarkably&mdash;since the nomination process begun. Please vote at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask. Thank you! &mdash;Hollow Wilerding 00:47, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Here is a better version of Image:Tatl_and_Tael.jpg. I'm putting this here instead of uploading it myself because the current one seems to be squished in order for it to be almost square-like (so it would look better on the article), and you can do what you want with it, then fix it. -- RattleMan 01:57, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Corrected. Thanks! :D &mdash;Hollow Wilerding 02:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Any time! -- RattleMan 02:50, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't believe erasing and replacing the review with a different word usage is anymore rewarding

Care to explain? I added "in its review" because it seemed to add more variation to the prose, nothing else. - Fredrik | tc 22:38, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


 * No, I was emphasizing the "erasing", but I suppose I failed; this is the internet after all. Are you going to address your vote at the nomination process? Sorry if I sound pushy. &mdash;Hollow Wilerding 22:56, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


 * No, I intend to do a few more changes first. Fredrik | tc 22:57, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Two questions:


 * 1) What are those changes?
 * 2) I've noticed that whenever you sign your posts, your talk page and contributions appear. How is it that one can do this?

&mdash;Hollow Wilerding 23:02, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


 * 1) Essentially, work on the gameplay section. I think the layout can be improved, some details should be removed, and a few bits of information are missing. I'd also like to get some better screenshots.
 * 2) Go to preferences, check "raw signature" and set "Nickname" to whatever you like. Fredrik | tc 23:14, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Which screenshots do you believe should be removed? &mdash;Hollow Wilerding 23:18, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, the biggest problem is that most screenshots are from cutscenes. I would at least like to replace some of them with equivalents that show some dialogue, but also add more action shots. Also, the aesthetics could be improved (the Goron shot is not particularly pretty) and some of them have visible emulation artifacts. Fredrik | tc 14:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The Goron screenshot is supposed to demonstrate the landscape of Termina. Essential images include the Skull Kid, Moon, and Tatl and Tael. &mdash;Hollow Wilerding . . . (talk) 17:39, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree on all points, but it's possible to get better images. Fredrik | tc 22:49, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Spoiler tags
We don't need the spoiler tags, because nothing is being spoilt. All the information given here is also in the manual, except possibly some details of the intro that we'd probably be better off removing. Fredrik | tc 22:48, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I strongly disagree. If we are going to be narrating the opening scenes of the video game, the spoiler tags are required. Why else would the tags have been created? &mdash;Hollow Wilerding . . . (talk) 23:40, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I've replaced the structure of the article in its previous form; the newer edition was not the apple of my eye and turned me away. &mdash;Hollow Wilerding . . . (talk) 23:48, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * They were created for endings, solutions to puzzles, and plot twists. Fredrik | tc 23:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Declining
Declining!

I had a reason for all the minor changes, such as moving the mention of "fixed 3D" to the section on technical development since it has nothing to do with gameplay (it is in fact directly related to the extra 4 MB of memory), removing speculation ("presumably the Lost Woods"), removing errors (Majora's Mask has indeed been cited as one of the greatest games of all time) -- and others which you just reverted without comment seemingly because you disagreed about the structure of the article, which isn't a very productive way to edit.

I also feel that my general changes to structure, layout and style improve the article -- eg "Graphical similarity to Ocarina of Time" vs just "characters", when that's what it's about, putting information on time travel in one place and transformations in one other place, instead of repeating the same information three times in different sections. I am not interested in waging a revert war; so for what it's worth, I'll rather let my FAC objection stand than continue with this. Fredrik | tc 23:57, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I have not removed your edits but merely attempted to restructure them. What do you think as it currently stands? &mdash;Hollow Wilerding . . . (talk) 00:03, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The inaccuracies I removed have been re-added (and you have introduced a few new ones, for example, claiming that the article Termina is about the game's gameplay). Fredrik | tc 00:08, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


 * No, Termina is where the game is played. I find it acceptable enough to add it under this header despite that it is not directly related. &mdash;Hollow Wilerding . . . (talk) 00:25, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Featured status
The article is now a featured article! Thank you to everybody who contributed, and I'd like to announce that my next project is to upgrade The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time to featured status! :) &mdash;Hollow Wilerding . . . (talk) 01:14, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

This article seems very poorly referenced...how did it reach featured article status? A mistake was made by giving this article featured status when it lacks sufficient references/citations in a number of sections. Cougs2000 20:39, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Resubmitted to FAC
It's been done. Hopefully this time it will pass despite previous allegations of fraud. - Cuivienen 20:54, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Inline citation
I just converted the notes section to the new inline citation format that was created. This format will make things a bit easier to manage when we do inline citations. During the conversion, I discovered that the ref to the following source was broken. I commented it out in the article, but i also brought it here. Does anyone know what this source was used for origianlly in the note section.

Miyamoto, Shigeru. N-Sider. The Making of the Game: The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask. Retrieved December 11, 2005.

-- ZeWrestler  Talk 06:38, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

The Woods
I'm sure that the woods that Link is in when searching for his friend is in Hyrule because this is before he steps on the portal that leads to Termina. Triforce of Power 15:00, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * True, it's definitely not Termina. However, Link is searching for Navi - it is possible that he wandered past the boundaries of Hyrule in his search. There's no way to know for sure. I'm reverting since this is speculation. Thanks for the copyedit changes, by the way, I've been trying to get help with that. --Pagrashtak 02:02, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I reverted a few things that I'm explaining here just to be clear: the Foo, then bar. construction is legitimate. If you add a conjunction, the comma cannot stay. (Foo and bar. not Foo, and bar.) The other revert is "Story and gameplay details.... show that the opening story ... as well as the use of masks ... are already in place". Story and use of masks take a plural verb here. --Pagrashtak 02:08, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I think that Nintendo has claimed that it was a section of the Lost Woods that were never visited in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

--Radaar 21:58, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Yea, I do beleive that it is the Lost Woods, since there are no other woods mentioned in the entire game. And he was searching for Navi.

Edits by anonymous contributer
I edited the article and made a few changes:

64.231.160.28 20:53, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The spoiler tag was in the wrong section; half of the plot was placed outside of the.
 * This is intentional, and was implemented to address a concern on the FAC submission. The first part of the plot is not really a spoiler, it was even known before the game's release.
 * The "References" header was unusually farther down the page than other headers.
 * One of the images clashed with the header change.
 * Rewrote a poorly-written sentence (the last one) next to the image of the fish playing the guitar.
 * Your rewrite replaced "he is much taller than adult Link" with the awkward (and somewhat incorrect) "his size is much taller than that of adult Link's" and introduced a punctuation error. If you feel the sentence is poorly worded, feel free to discuss it here.

I'm reverting most of your changes, see my reasons above. --Pagrashtak 22:32, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I disagree with placing the spoilers tag in the middle of the section because the first part is still a spoiler: the antagonist of Link is introduced; the Ocarina of Time and Epona are stolen; Link is transformed into a Deku Scrub. I find these to be spoilers, especially the latter two. You are right pointing out that the sentence in the next section if incorrect; I am going to rewrite it once more. I also noticed that you furthered the "References" header down the article again; isn't this incorrect in correspondence to the rest of the article and Wikipedia articles as a whole? 64.231.163.117 00:05, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I placed the spoilers tag at the top of the section in which it appears once again for the reasons noted above. Some other edits include switching the side of the article the image of the moon appears on due to writing contrasts (this will not appear on everybody's computer, but I have made this edit for the sake of people with the same computer as mine); I rewrote the "height" sentence once again, and added some wikilinks which were missing. 64.231.163.117 00:14, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm at a loss. You've now replaced "is much taller than Adult Link" with "is much taller compared to the height of Adult Link", which is the same problem as before - why do you insist on adding unecessary words? What else would one compare in that situation? As for moving references down, it's easy to overlook something minor like that when performing a partial revert; it wasn't intentional. The majority of the changes you are making are undoing the work agreed upon in the FAC submission. I request that you discuss proposed changes here and obtain a consensus before proceeding, as there were no objections to the changes you are undoing at the FAC submission.

Long story short, I suspect you are Hollow Wilerding, evading a block, and have submitted a CheckUser request. --Pagrashtak 02:07, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I've submitted my opposition to the FAC of this article. I don't know who Hollow Wilerding is or what a CheckUser request is. 64.231.163.117 02:31, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * By the way, "compare", from an English Oxford dictionary states:
 * To consider or describe as similar, equal, or analogous; liken.
 * To examine in order to note the similarities or differences of.
 * One does not need to compare more than one object in order to make a point. 64.231.163.117 02:35, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I know what compare means, although I think you mean "Oxford English Dictionary". I don't know what the definition has to do with anything. My point is that you're complicating the sentence without gain. Nothing is wrong with the phrase "is taller than". You don't have to say "compared to the height of", that's understood &mdash; taller is a comparison of height. It's like saying "A kilometer is longer than the length of a meter." instead of "A kilometer is longer than a meter". It's just silly. --Pagrashtak 03:55, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I rewrote the sentence, hopefully it will be agreeable to us both. --Pagrashtak 04:11, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It's better than before, but not perfect. I won't argue though. Could you please place the moon image on the right side of the screen? On my computer, and on other various formats, the writing is literally moving into the image, but if you place it on the right side, no interference occurs. Could you please place it on the right? I still disagree with the spoilers tag, but I'll leave it for now. 64.231.163.10 20:42, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll leave it, I didn't know it caused a problem for you. Which text is in the picture, and what operating system and browser are you using? --Pagrashtak 00:46, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The last sentence of the Storyline section was running into the image. Windows XP is the operating system that I access, however, I am not aware of the browser as this is a public computer. 64.231.163.10 00:51, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * That gives it about a 99% chance of being IE. That should be a common combo, anyone else experiencing a problem like this? --Pagrashtak 01:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I centred the reviews in the review template as it emphasizes the writing. I don't mind if one reverts these edits as it was based on personal taste. 64.231.68.22 02:20, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I went through the history and found a few wikilinks that had been removed and replaced them in the article. I think I'm finished editing this article, and may register an account on Wikipedia next month if I find the time to. Ciao! 64.231.168.58 21:13, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Alcohol reference
Majora's Mask has an alcohol reference. In the milk bar there is a man named Gorman drinking milk at the counter, and he's acting like he's drunk. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.210.88.119 (talk &bull; contribs).
 * That is true, but I am not sure that that is notable enough to warrant a mention in the article. But thank you, anonymous user, for suggesting it. Batmanand | Talk 18:48, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I daresay Link's rampant kleptomania and habit of murdering all the local wildlife is a worse influence on kids than one drunk guy anyway :) -- stillnotelf   has a talk page  23:33, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes, I agree. &mdash;Eternal Equinox | talk 14:45, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

He may not be drunk, maybe just crazy. That happens sometimes.
 * Hey dude, kleptomania is a serious psychological condition. What would Link's therapist think if she saw this webpage? Deco 10:55, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I say that milkbars got me thinking on the good ol' ultraviolence.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Altaire (talk • contribs).

I doubt that he's actually drunk, after all it is the Milk Bar, not the Alcohol Bar!

Plus if you think about it then the ranch (i can't remember the exact name due to years of not playing) is delivering milk to the bar. I mean its even a side quest. So maybe he's acting drunk but its more likely to be a *joke*. Kou Nurasaka 16:49, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Image
Since there is Zora and Goron Link, and there is a Deku Link in the N64 page... can we put it or the article has images enough? igordebraga ≠ 18:10, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't believe we should placed another image in the article as it could disrupt the fair use policy. Also, there are already quite a number of screenshots. &mdash;Eternal Equinox | talk 21:29, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Giant's mask
I think we need some hands-on research or a source for the Giant's Mask issue. It would seem that we're not quite sure whether it's required to defeat Twinmold. My understanding is that you can only do it with either the Giant's Mask or the Fierce Diety Mask...but having the latter requires the former. Is it possible with the Bow and Arrows? Is it reasonable, given the number of arrows you'd need? Clearly it's intended to be required, so should we just leave it at that? -- stillnotelf   is invisible  02:31, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * "Hands-on research" is a bad idea. Listing the four masks required is barely encyclopedic as it is, I don't want to add much more to the paragraph.  Pagra shtak  04:17, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, but we can use OR to satisfy our own curiosities safely on the talk page - this will keep us from repeatedly tweaking the article. --  stillnotelf   is invisible  04:28, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * No its not needed. I originally beat the Twinmold without it. Just use bomb mask and stand near one of the snake things and explode against it. Pretty easy. 64.212.140.5 04:17, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh and i accidently was anonymous for previous change... 99jonathan 04:18, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * When I was playing Majora's Mask, the use of the Giant's Mask was pretty straight-forward. I have never defeated Twinmold without its assistance (although I have attempted it). &mdash;Eternal Equinox | talk 15:33, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I defeated the twin worms with just the bow and arrows, because I ran out of mana required to continue use of the mask. It can be done, and it was much more fun than transforming and slash-smashing the worms into non-existance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.95.59.46 (talk • contribs)

Hmm, the article currently says it's "near impossible" to defeat Twin Mold without the Giant's Mask. I've done it just using the bow and arrows, and it was far from "near impossible". I realize my own personal experience is original research, but then again, I'd say you could also argue that asserting it's "near impossible" is also original research. Who's to say how difficult it actually is? I've done it with some minor difficultly, but nowhere close to the point of "holy crap it's so hard!!!!"
 * I've defeated Twin Mold on a minimalistic save state (3 hearts, 1 fairy, no Giant's Mask). It certainly is more difficult than any other boss, but I wouldn't consider it much of a trouble with more, strengthened hearts. 84.58.197.34 12:49, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I guess that means I'll just remove any statement on its feasibility. --Foot Dragoon 00:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Box art
Recently User:Linkdude20002001 added multiple box arts to the article, which were re-ordered by User:Thunderbrand and then reverted entirely by User:Eternal Equinox (subsequent diffs from that edit). I think we should have all three box arts somewhere in this article - this is not NTSC Wikipedia, it's for everyone. (I would agree that we need to choose where to place them, and that the box art in Japanese should be de-emphasized because this is not the Japanese Wikipedia.) Please note that Ocarina of Time has multiple boxes as well. What do you all think about having all three boxes here? -- stillnotelf   is invisible  01:40, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * It's true that some of the other cover art boxes could be displayed, but where could they be inserted into the article? There are already far too many fair use images, and the inclusion of another may be violating the fair use policy. In addition to that, when an image is tagged for fair use, it has to expand upon the text to make it appear visual; there is currently not section in the article where an art box would live up to the fair use. I also noted in my edit summary that there is limited space remaining as well. &mdash;Eternal Equinox | talk 20:08, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * WikiProject Computer and video games suggests that they could perhaps appear in a gallery? I would suggest removing the Tatl and Tael image and putting the gallery down near the critical review section - the reviews represent international opinions.  I think what this really boils down to an argument over which guidelines are more important - NPOV vs fair use & article size.  --  stillnotelf   is invisible  22:26, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not really fond of galleries since it is like they serve the purpose of wasting valuable writing space. Perhaps we could remove the Tatl and Tael image and include the Japanese art box. I don't believe the "special edition" box (or whatever it was) really qualifies as fair use; it is certainly pushing boundaries. &mdash;Eternal Equinox | talk 01:13, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 * It was the PAL version. On the one hand, I think the PAL version would be more useful to this article (it's the English version of the game for non-North-American countries) than the Japanese version simply because it's in English.  On the other hand, the PAL box is pretty similar to the US cover art we already have.  Displaying the Japanese art as a switch for Tatl and Tael would make a good compromise, I think, although I'm hoping someone else will weigh in with an opinion.  I've collected the box arts in a gallery below for comparison - if you want to delete the gallery after consensus is reached feel free. --  stillnotelf   is invisible  01:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Are there any other comments? &mdash;Eternal Equinox | talk 00:03, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I too am not a huge fan of galleries, but in this case it may be the best way out of a bad situation. Batmanand | Talk 00:13, 14 April 2006
 * I'm still rather reluctant to place a gallery template in the article. Perhaps we should insert the Japanese cover art into the article first (which has also been accomplished at The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker)? If this fails, then... we'll continue to elaborate. &mdash;Eternal Equinox | talk 01:37, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Box art images: US art Japanese PAL

Sequel
Isn't this game the sequel to Ocarina of Time terms of story? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryu Ematsu (talk • contribs) 05:15, May 14, 2006
 * Yes, it is. When writing on talk pages, put new topics at the bottom, and don’t forget to sign your comments by typing four tildes( ~ ). -- WikidSmaht (talk) 06:37, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

giant's mask??
I didn't think it was required to beat the stone tower boss

I haven't played in years, but I seem to remember running out of mana and finishing the battle in small form.

It is possiable to do but somewhat harder and typically most people say that using the Giant's Mask is the only way to defeat Twinmold. Kou Nurasaka 16:51, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

--Froth 17:08, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow
I haven't visited this article in a while and didn't catch it when it was featured, but I'm a huge fan of the game and I'm extremely impressed at the detailed information and terse, well-written prose throughout this article, much of which even I never knew. This is an article that wastes no words and says nothing twice. Among the best I've seen. Deco 12:18, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Earthquakes and such
The added statements about earthquakes on the last day and a timer in the last six hours are true, but I personally don't think they add very much. All sorts of things change as time runs out, like people leaving the streets of Clock Town and of course the moon getting closer. Deco 03:08, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. True statement, adds nothing to the article. Fieari 03:16, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes of course. Why would something to do with the game be relevant to the game article? --Thaddius 18:35, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

The only thing the earthquakes add are a sort of "fear factor" nothing more. Kou Nurasaka 23 May 2007

Spoiler tags
I recently removed a spoiler tag. However, this was quickly put back by the user Omicronpersei8, claiming "Plot" doesn't imply spoilers below. Dictionary.com states:

Also called storyline. the plan, scheme, or main story of a literary or dramatic work, as a play, novel, or short story.

This clearly shows that plot is going to reveal the main story - meaning Plot DOES imply spoiler below. This enough is evidence for redundancy, but there's also the matter that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. It is not a game guide. Wikipedia is for information. Moreover, all Final Fantasy articles that have been featured (there are 5) do not have spoiler tags. Is there any good reason for the placement of the spoiler tags in an encyclopedia? Please do not tell me that 'it's nice', because an encyclopedia's task is not to be 'nice', it is to give information. --TheEmulatorGuy 05:46, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Stone Tower Temple
I haven't played this game in years but I do remeber that it is possible to defeat the boss in the Stone Tower temple without actually completing the temple itself. If I remember rightly when the temple is inverted there is a walkway on which you have to defeat some kind of large enemy. Once you have done this to the bottom right of the walkway there is a wooden chest just in range of the hookshot. Link can hookshot to this lower level using this chest and then can then enter a room on this level, defeat the enemy within the room for which he is rewarded the boss key. With this you can now defeat the boss without completing the temple.

As it is so long since I played this game I'm not sure if the above is completely correct, but I do know that I defeated the boss without completing the temple first time I played this game by using the above described sploitz with the hookshot. I think someone should research this as other gliches in the gameplay are mentioned in the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.88.168.240 (talk • contribs).

You are absolutely correct. There are many other crazy sequence breaks in this game, but they aren't noteworthy enough to deserve mention in this article. Wikipedian06 10:06, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Reception
Shouldn't there be some sort of reference in the reception section to the way in which many Zelda fans considered the game to be far too short (4 temples compared to the Ocarina of Time's 10), easy, and the way in which your items and much of your progress was lost after you save the game? I know that this is a view shared by myself and all my friends who played this game. We can't have been the only ones to have thought this, surely? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.88.168.240 (talk • contribs).


 * Clarification, the main story was short, and if you ignored all the sidequests, the game would be shorter. But with the sidequests, the game was much longer.  In terms of difficulty, I'm pretty sure most agree this game was harder than OOT.  The last point was an issue for some, but not for me (I thought it added to the challenge). 69.69.72.198 17:18, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * You really can't say that Ocarina of Time has 10 temples and also say that Majora's Mask only has 4. Ocarina of Time has 8 core temples, and if you're including the final level (Ganon's Castle/Moon) you have to include it for both games. Likewise, if you're counting "side" dungeons (such as Bottom of the Well in OoT and Ikana Castle in MM) you have to count them in both games. Dusso Janladde 07:36, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Absurd requests for references or sources.
Now, I'm not sure of the exact policy for citation requirement, but does this article *really* need to cite references for the setting? The only thing one could cite, after all, would be the game itself, or the manual. Similarly, do we need to cite references for information about the temples? Or the *songs* in the game? All these needless requests for references are cluttering up the article. 24.21.119.101 21:38, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The game and manual would, of course, be primary sources and thus ineligible as sources under WP:CITE. Secondary sources only, please. Anonymous 57 21:43, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't see how they aren't eligible as valid sources, given that is the scope taken by other articles on popular culture ... I take it there should be a citation for every major thesis proposed in the article, yes, but I see this fulfilled. John Riemann Soong 22:17, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Wrong. Just because other articles are also wrong doesn't make this position any more right. It is, in fact, original research; see WP:NOR. Anonymous 57 22:19, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, WP:CITE mentions nothing about secondary sources. You may be thinking of WP:RS, which in fact states that it is acceptable to use primary sources in articles about themselves. Now, I'll be the first one to criticize an article based only on primary soures, but that's not the case here. Also, it's usually taken as implicit that, in an article about a single fictional work, the plot is implicitly sourced to the work. More recent FAs have begun to explicitly cite dialogue, to address these concerns, but, as long as the plot section doesn't contain novel interpretations, it's generally deemed acceptable. I don't know of any FA nomination that has failed for merely using the fictional work itself as a source for uncontroversial plot info (and there have been enough such nominations over time), so consensus seems to be that this does not constitute original research. — TKD::Talk 22:41, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * "using the work as a source for uncontroversial plot info has almost never been disputed" (in edit summary) — Really? I've seen it happen time and time again. On what basis was Limecat deleted, for example, despite being one of the most widespread Internet memes since All Your Base? This is but one example of many, and I've come to understand and appreciate the Wikipedia way of requiring reliable sources. Anything else, I understand, will lead to deletion. Anonymous 57 22:46, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * That's a different matter. The primary source can never establish notability. Reputable, third-party secondary sources do that. That does not preclude using the primary source for what descriptive claims do exist in the article, as long as encyclopedic context is sufficiently established. I did not see the original Limecat article, but the deletion debates make it sound as if the original article failed to provide good sources for web content notability. — TKD::Talk 22:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * In the revision of Limecat I wrote personally, notability had been established by reputable, third-party secondary sources before someone deleted the article out-of-process. I am quite certain the same standard should be applied even-handedly across the board, including in this article. Anonymous 57 23:01, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Also, please note that "[because they're] cluttering up the article" is not a valid reason to remove citation-needed tags. Anonymous 57 21:47, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, I agree with both of your points, but you didn't address my question: does an article about a game need to cite sources for the content contained therein; and if so, where would one cite this information from? 24.21.119.101 22:02, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Every article on Wikipedia must cite sources for the content contained therein. Any unverified information must be removed. If you don't believe me, see WP:V, WP:CITE, and WP:REF. Anonymous 57 22:09, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, almost forgot to mention: Enjoy your stay on Wikipedia! Anonymous 57 22:16, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

If this article doesn't cite sources, then it should not be a featured article. Wikipediarul e s2221 21:49, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Elements of gameplay do not need to be cited. The primary source (The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask) covers all of this. --- RockMFR 22:42, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I point you to WP:RS: "Wikipedia articles may use primary sources only if they have been published by a reliable publisher e.g. trial transcripts published by a court stenographer, or historic documents that appear in edited collections. We may not use primary sources whose information has not been made available by a reliable publisher. See No original research and Verifiability."


 * Hey you douchebags, quit putting references needed tags at the start of every section. One is enough. And there's already sources cited for most of the shit you keep tagging. Cut it out. Xizer 22:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The reception and analysis of gameplay should be cited to secondary sources, I agree, but, for actually describing what it is, the Self-published sources in articles about themselves section of WP:RS would seem applicable. That said, taking a closer look, I'm not entirely happy with the balance of the article in terms of focus on gameplay and plot, but that's another issue. And, please, Xizer, let's remain civil and avoid personal attacks. — TKD::Talk 23:02, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Please be civil,. It's certainly possible to source claims about gameplay; Final Fantasy VII, Shadow of the Colossus, and Metal Gear Solid 3 all do so. Those would be good examples to follow. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:06, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * User:Anonymous 57 seems to be trying to make a WP:POINT as a sort of "revenge" for his Limecat article. Specifically about his arguments, I don't see how an article about a game could possibly be barred from citing itself (and I'd say Nintendo is a pretty reliable publisher, considering how it published the game and all, you know?). Personally, I wouldn't go so far as to say the entire article lacks sources, though the two outlined below look like they do. I think some primary sources couldn't hurt either. Axem Titanium 23:12, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Please, avoid using the primary source whenever possible. In the case of games, it's bad because it often leads to emphasis on minor or trivial points in plot summary, lengthy descriptions of minor parts of gameplay (minigames, the specifics of a battle system, etc.), and other such skewed emphasis on minor points. While I realize it's hard to avoid referencing the game directly for a story description, there's rarely any need to reference the game/manual/gameguides directly for gameplay descriptions as most reviews do cover the gameplay, and references to the game for the story should ideally be references to specific quotes (as in Final Fantasy VII). - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:16, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, get real. I couldn't care less about the deletion of the Limecat article, as I've seen far greater injustices on Wikipedia. I named Limecat as an example, not as a justification. The fact still remains that the great majority of information in this article is unsupported by references. Anonymous 57 23:29, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh please. You've had your panties in a bunch ever since Limecat was deleted and we all know it. Just looking at your history shows multiple instances of tag abuse. Xizer 01:36, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what you're talking about, and neither will anyone who looks at my contributions. Care to back up that allegation? Anonymous 57 02:34, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * This needlessly inflammatory and irrelevant thread of discussion is ended now. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:43, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

This is definitely an abuse of tags. If the editor feels that the article sincerely lacks in sources, then s/he should have placed one tag at the beginning of the article and further clarified it on the talk page. I think we should remove at least a good majority of them, as it is just unnecessary to have one in every section. Grendel 23:24, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Sections that SHOULD be tagged
"Improvements from Ocarina of Time" and "GameCube re-release" should definitely be tagged for having no references. As far as I can see, the other sections are fine. --- RockMFR 22:59, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the plot section should have dialogue citations, as newer FAs on video games do, but I agree that those sections need citations. — TKD::Talk 23:05, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Romaji and Transliterations
Okay, since we seem to be stuck in a reversion-nexus here, it would be pointless for me to edit any section of the article lest it be lost... again. So, I'll just bring this to the talk page. Basically, I'm wondering if we should equivocate Romaji transliterations with English instead of using literal Romaji. (i.e., shouldn't "Zeruda" simply be stated as "Zelda"? This is, phonetically, what it represents.) This method seems more professional to me. Grendel 23:35, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * If we were to do that, then it would make the inclusion of the romaji pointless since it would only reiterate the translated title. Axem Titanium 23:48, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure why you would think this. "Zeruda no Densetsu: Mujura no Kamen" only contains two transliterated strings -- Zelda and Majora. Grendel 00:01, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It wouldn't phonetically represent what is actually being pronounced, regardless of intent. See WP:MOS-JA for more info on Romanisation used on wikipedia. Axem Titanium 01:17, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Have you looked over the article yourself? Let me quote it directly:

For Japanese words in katakana, use the English spelling if available (i.e., Thunderbird (サンダーバード Sandābādo) instead of Sandābādo).Grendel
 * That sentence refers to using romaji as article titles but it also explicitly states that "Sandābādo" should be used in the spot for romaji, instead of "Thunderbird" as your reasoning would suggest. Axem Titanium 02:39, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * There is no explicit reference to this rule in regards to article titles. There is, however, a warning that you should be careful when editing body text. If this is what you are refering to, then it's hardly explicit. I fail to see the problem here... Grendel 02:44, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind. Seeing as how there is a ton of reverting going on, there's really no point in trying to solve such a small issue at the moment. Maybe we can come back to this later. Grendel 02:48, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The quote gives the word in the following form: English word (katakana romaji). Using the above example with Thunderbird would give the following: Thunderbird (サンダーバード Sandābādo). "Sandābādo" is obviously a transliteration of the word "Thunderbird" and that is what is given as the romaji in the correct form as explicitly outlined in the WP:MOS-JA. Also see this other quote from there:
 * "Wikipedia uses the version of Revised Hepburn romanisation described below because... it gives a fair indication of Japanese pronunciation to the intended audience of English speakers"
 * Changing "Zeruda" to "Zelda" would not give a "fair indication" of how the Japanese is pronounced to English speakers. Axem Titanium 02:54, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * In no way does the article imply that you should use romaji in place of English when English is available. It's precisely converse, as I will quote yet again: use the English spelling if available Grendel 03:04, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It also says to use "Thunderbird (サンダーバード Sandābādo)" instead of simply "Sandābādo" or even "Thunderbird (サンダーバード Thunderbird)". Axem Titanium 03:06, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I understand perfectly what you are saying, but this doesn't address the issue. If we have a title that consists of English words (or names) being represented in katakana, then displaying the English areas in literal romaji would be defeating the entire purpose of translating it in the first place. The word, when in katakana form, is just a transliteration, and if we're going to display it in latin characters for those who can't read kana, then I think it would make more sense to simply use the English equivalent. Do you see my point? Grendel 03:18, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thunderbird is an English word (or is consisted of English words) but the romaji are included to give an indication of how the katakana are pronounced. As I said before, changing "Zeruda" to "Zelda" wouldn't give a "fair indication" of how the Japanese romaji is pronounced (which is technically, the "most official" pronunciation). Also, it would be completely inconsistent if some words were rendered in English while others in romaji. If you still don't agree, then I think you have a problem with the WP:MOS-JA and not me or this article and you should take your discussion there. Axem Titanium 03:50, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

prequel
I believe that the following statement in the opening paragraph: darker storyline as well as deeper gameplay than its prequel, Ocarina of Time is flawed in that OoT came out before MM, so it could not be a "prequel". I am pretty certain the appropriate word would be predecessor. I would fix it, but my browser cannot load a text box with more than 32 KB so I received an error. Stovetopcookies 00:02, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Except for the fact that Majora's Mask occurs directly after Ocarina of Time, story-wise. This is one of the few definitively known Zelda chronology sequences. Axem Titanium 01:10, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

It is also one of the only ones in which link is the same link from the privious game. (lenny) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.190.109.11 (talk • contribs). Theres just one problem. If Link is searching for "a long lost friend." and we can presume this is Navi then it would have to take place after OoT. This also explains why Link is little and not an adult at the time of Majora's Mask is taking place. Kou Nurasaka 16:55, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

This Article REALLY Went Downhill
Looking back on the day it became a Featured Article, now I see it's become smaller and less informative than it was and... What's with the "=" section? Are reverts and edits not being done correctly?--Kuribo 18:23, 29 October 2006 (UTC)


 * As of this message, I've reverted it back to a previous version that has considerably less errors. If for some reason the article was meant to have a section with an equal sign in it, then by all means...--Kuribo 18:45, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks like you've already reverted the recent vandalism. Axem Titanium 23:29, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

art inspiration
Majora's Mask is based off of taotie masks from ancient east asia.
 * Sources? Or is this just original research? Axem Titanium 22:25, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * original research —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.126.179.104 (talk • contribs).

Radio Zelda?
Does anyone remember anything about the Radio Zelda commercials that began to air well before the release of MM? I think it would be key for the development section of the article in terms of marketing. Valley2city 03:57, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * http://gameads.gamepressure.com/ This site has some of the commercials. Search for Majora's Mask. Takuthehedgehog 07:52, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Realistic Blood?
I just finished up a little bit of Majora's Mask. It was the part where you first go back in time, and see all of your memories, like falling off of your horse! Ha! The scene of failure! When I watched this part, I saw Link being pushed off of his horse brutally. But, this time, it shows a close-up of his face, and it seems there is blood falling from his mouth DBZ style. Could someone please reply? I've been waiting forever for someone to reply. Can some one please do that? Please? Tpganon
 * Talk pages are not forums, they are for discussion of how to improve the article. What exactly are you asking people to reply about anyway? Axem Titanium 21:16, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Um, sorry, but I thought someone else might notice. Is someone mad at me or something, because, well, I don't know. All I want to know is that I'm not sure if this blood's really in the game, or I'm just imagining things. Maybe this could be put in a controversy part?
 * It's not really controversial. Ganondorf spat out blood in OoT. Anyway, you can start a new game and check really quick if you really want to confirm it. Axem Titanium 02:48, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

But, this was immediately changed as soon as version 1.1 came out, so I find it somewhat controversial. Also, you only see Link's face for about 2.5 seconds, so it would be kind of hard to check, but alright I will. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.74.28.208 (talk • contribs).
 * I just checked, and there is blood flowing out of his mouth. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.74.28.208 (talk • contribs).

Crap link.
I can't seem to find the code for the external link to this .tk fansite about the game. The site is crap, and I'd like to remove the link. Anybody help? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.251.225.228 (talk) 07:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

Twilight Princess Connection?
(Word of warning, this may contain some spoilers for The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess)

Anybody notice that the eye on Midna's mask is very reminiscent of Majora's mask? The Twili may very well be those that created the mask before they were exiled. Adding to that, when the power of those fragments of the Twili's magic come together they form an oversized mask (err... helmet?) which causes a transformation. While there's nothing really there to back any of this up, there's little doubt in my mind that there's some connections here. Keep in mind Twilight Princess takes place long after Ocarina of Time, but the Twili were exiled long before Ocarina of Time. --75.180.25.49 06:55, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Interesting observation, but this is original research so it can't be put in the article. davekeeling 20:45, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

People this is Nintendo we're dealing with. They don't tie up loose ends in games becuase they don't know themselves how everything works in with each other! Yeah i said it. They just make a game and let us speculate about the parts that don't seem to make sense. They just get a random guy drunk and whatever nonsense he spills out that's the basis for the next game they make. Kou Nurasaka 02:42, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

GC version crashes?
"Another issue that has been raised is that the game unexpectedly crashes on the GameCube occasionally; this is once again caused by the inaccuracies of the emulator."

This never happened to me, and I played through the whole game. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.193.151.207 (talk • contribs).
 * Well, the statement itself is unsourced so I removed it. Axem Titanium 04:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The anon user must have been quite lucky. The game crashs all the time; I'll try to find a source, but it's quite annoying, particularly considering the games' unique save system. Dlong 05:20, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed; it crashed yesterday just after I collected all the faries in the second dungeon. Heck, the last time I played the game through it was almost unbearable because it tended to lock up just as I was finishing a difficult side-quest. It shouldn't be too hard to find a reference on, to be quite honest. I'll see if I can't dig anything up. --DMAJohnson 05:07, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, here's a start: http://www.allrpg.com/games/zeldacollect/index.php3?page=review&num=1 Not sure if it will work, but it does mention the problems with the game randomly crashing while out and about. --DMAJohnson 02:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I also have not seen the game crashing/freezing on the GC, both with Rumble Feature on and off. The only emulation problems I've noticed are slight weirdness in the music when entering a different area (lasts for about a half a second) and the framerate dropping. But the slowdown isn't all that bad in my copy; there are several places in the game where the framerate doesn't drop in my copy. Oh and Dlong, if the game crashed all the time you wouldn't be able to play it.-Mega Man 5 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Stone Tower
Material merged from Stone Tower (now redirect).

The Stone Tower is the final dungeon in The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask The dungeon has multiple parts: scaling the Stone Tower, Stone Tower, and inverted Stone Tower. The Stone Tower is located in eastern Ikana, and houses the source of the evil in the area. Once the player earns the Elegy of Emptiness from the undead king of Ikana, they can scale the tower, using the statues created by the song. On the top, the player must solve a simple puzzle using three switches to create a bridge to the tower. After exploring the inside and earning the Light Arrow from the Grim Reaper-like monster Gomess, the player could activate a jewel that flipped the tower upside-down. This allowed more extensive exploration, and access to all the chests that were hanging from the ceiling. The player also fights Twinmold while the tower is inverted. The gate to the Stone Tower is a large representation of a tribal face witha slightly demonic appearance. on the sides are two giant clawed paws, and the ramp up into the tower area is the face's tongue. Strangely, the Stone Tower, located in the depths of the area of the game that deals with death, has very few undead enemies. The only undead enemies were three ReDeads outside of the tower, and they posed no danger, as the ledge they were on wasn't used to get to the top. The other undead creatures were a couple of Stalfoses and the arguably undead Wallmaster inside the Tower.

If it is possible, please merge the material above into the article. Sr13 (T|C) Editor review 06:56, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Too specific and game guide-like. I don't think it would fit well in the article. Axem Titanium 00:59, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

GC freezing
I've experienced this and almost snapped my disk in half many times. It's sort of irrelavent, but can someone give me a better explanation why than "the game was not altered, just emulated"? If not, can someone tell me how it could freeze the game? 216.237.235.137 02:43, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe the emulator doesn't emulate the expanded RAM very well. 84.59.24.109 22:08, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

The reason the game locks up when playing it on the GameCube disc is essentially what has already been said- it is an emulation of the "real" game. The disc basically includes a copy of a The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask ROM image and a Nintendo 64 emulator, both of which are being buffered into the GameCube's RAM. Of course, the emulation certainly is not perfect (although it is better than most "homebrewn" emulators), and coupled with the fact that both the game and the program are being buffered to the system, it can freeze up on occasion, especially when a lot is going on on-screen, transitioning to a new area, or when accessing in-game menus. --Brahman 06:35, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Image
I orphaned an image from the ex-Majora page, merged it into this, and then hid it because I realized it lacked a source. If none is found, I'm afraid it'll be deleted. - A Link to the Past (talk) 13:57, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

"Differences from versions" unsourced
The first statement may be very likely, but what about the second, recent one, regarding story changes made about Kafei's mask? 84.59.24.109 22:07, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

virtual console
what do you think? is there a chance?

I like the way you think mysterious voice that was left unsigned! But seriously that would be SWEET! Now all we need is OoT and i can die happy. (once i beat it that is.)Kou Nurasaka 02:45, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I personally think it will eventually come out especially since the Ocarina of Time has come out. We will just have to wait and see. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.184.83.137 (talk) 23:09, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Was it Really Navi?
This is my first time working on a Wiki page; so bear with me if this is not important. However, it was never said by Nintendo, in game or out, that Navi is definitely the friend Link is looking for. Another theory is that he is looking for the Skull Kid from Ocarina of Time. I think it should at least be mentioned that this is not set in stone. Any Zelda themed forums have heated discussions about this all the time.
 * Well, the Zelda manga outright states it's Navi, and it's endorsed by Nintendo...—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 15:48, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You might want to investigate into this page.--141.84.69.20 14:53, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * What confuses me is why he would go looking for her after probably 80% of players turned off their sound to avoid hearing her speak. "Hey" or "Listen" every 2 seconds gets old pretty fast. I admire Link's patience, though. Crisco 1492 20:48, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Links
I was reading through the page and everything has a link, including the words: sword, boomerang,time travel, mask and force field just to name a few. Do all these things really need link (i mean redirection to other pages not the main charecter)? This has been disputed on other pages as well and frankly anyone who plays games knows what a sword, time travel, and a mask is already. Unless it redirects to Master Sword, or a mask featured in the game its pointless reallyKou Nurasaka 14:50, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * This is an encyclopedia, not a gamer-wiki or a Zelda-wiki.--84.58.215.156 16:26, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * if this is an encyclopedia, then sections such as "critical reception" should be removed, as along with trivia sections, they have nothing to do with the subject itself and are not relevant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.162.204.6 (talk) 05:13, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Critical reception has very much to do with the subject. As for the trivia section, your demand is valid.--141.84.69.20 19:27, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

New section added
I wrote a new section, Races, where the different tribes in the game are spoken of. I hope it helps the article.200.71.186.108 17:14, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That information belongs more in this article Thank you for your contributions. The Placebo Effect 17:41, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Termina map image
This article had just a few too many fair use images than necessary so I removed some of them. It still has quite a large number and I imagine the fair use police will descend soon. I'm wondering about the necessity of the Termina map image. I'm borderline, leaning towards removing it because the only thing we learn from it (that Termina has 4 climate regions) is covered in the text. Thoughts? Axem Titanium 21:26, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I say keep it. It's always good to have a map of the area you're talking above. Knowitall 03:35, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * But see, that reasoning doesn't hold compared to User:Durin/Fair use overuse explanation. I'm saying that it can be described well enough with words, especially now that Termina has been merged here, that an image is not necessary. Axem Titanium 14:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Termina/Talmina
The problem is: You can't take most of the things on the Japanese sites serious as they usually involve many cases of Engrish (I wouldn't call The World of New "Zelda" correct either...), where the online staff just takes the next best romanization instead of actually thinking about where the game designers got their inspiration from/what they wanted to allude to (in this case termination). The Fire Temple is also named "Temple of fire" on the Japanese OoT site, yet they have the "Forest Temple" unchanged, while making the "Deku Tree" a "Deku-tree" and omitting the "lord" title from Jabu-Jabu's name (although the kanji-suffix for "lord" is there). Bottom line: They don't know crap about romanization. Prime Blue (talk) 21:50, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have a point?--141.84.69.20 (talk) 00:18, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Blue, but it's not our responsibility to make such conclusions. It's original research. It's the company's fault for using inaccurate information, because we have to take their word for it.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 01:07, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it is, as of fact checking and using reliable sources. I get your point, that's not the problem (unless you actually think Talmina is the original Japanese form). It's just that I don't feel comfortable about adding wrong information to an article because one of Nintendo's employees made a mistake. Thinking of another example... Using Aida Wong (flash version) or Eda Won (PDF version) as romanized version of Ada Wong's (エイダ・ウォン) Japanese name because it was used in the official translation of Wesker's Report II. I couldn't find exact guidelines when it comes to factually wrong foreign language sources. Prime Blue (talk) 04:35, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it can safely be removed because it doesn't actually provide any meaningful information to the article. Axem Titanium (talk) 05:00, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Tone
Reading through the article, a lot of it seems to lack a high-quality professional voice. While it surely suffices and is by all accounts factually accurate, some of the tense-choice and verb-usage comes off sounding rather... Odd and, well, not quite FA material.

Just my opinion, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.61.60.202 (talk) 08:03, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

The need for Epona in OoT
For some reason, this article talks about the necessity of Epona (or lack thereof, depending on the month) in completing Ocarina of Time. I know from personal experience that she is not necessary, but that's beside the point; I'm wondering if it's necessary at all to mention it either way, since it keeps changing periodically and may count as OR. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 05:29, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I always thought Epona was necessary to complete Ocarina, but then again I never tried it without her. But yeah, as this is disputed, I agree it should be altogether removed until someone provides a source stating one way or the other. -sesuPRIME talk • contribs 05:47, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

My first playthrough, I used the Longshot. I'll see if a source exists that agrees with me. Until then, I'll yank it. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 05:53, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, there's nothing significant about this fact unless it's covered by secondary sources anyway; there are loads of things in the game that Link needs to complete it. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 17:10, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Bugs
Have all the bugs from the gamecube version been worked out in the VC version?., if not these should be mentioned for the article. Either way this point should be clarified with a source. Ottawa4ever (talk) 00:36, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * According to comments in reply to a review on this page, the sound/freezing bug has been fixed. I think it would be wise to use a more reliable source though. GW (talk) 14:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Evidence Termina is a Separate Land from Hyrule
Aside from reading somewhere that the developer's stated that Termina isn't in an alternate universe, and that all of the character models were simply recycled from the first game (I unfortunately cannot remember where I'd read this for the life of me), there are at least three points of evidence supporting this claim:

1) The old mother's stories that Link must stay awake to listen. In one of the stories the old mother tells about the Four Giants and the Skull Kid. (As we all know, the Skull Kid is the same from OoT; within Majora's Mask the Skull Kid recognizes Link and exclaims it twice, once at the very beginning and also at the very end of the game.) In the old mother's story she tells Link that the Skull Kid had been good friends with the Four Giants. When the Skull Kid became mischievous and bothersome to the town's people to the point of action, the Skull Kid is banished from the land of Termina by the Four Giants. This makes it safe to assume that at this point, he's traveled to Hyrule, more specifically the Kokiri Forest (during OoT we encounter him here). Before the very start of Majora's Mask, he's made it back leading to the actual events of the start. (On a side note, the Happy Mask Salesman also travels between lands)

2) The shivering and hungry Goron stuck on top of the frozen waterfall in Mountain Village. When Link smashes the revolving chandelier in Goron Village he discovers what is Rock Sirloin. Taking it to the hungry Goron, the Goron exclaims, "Th-That's it! It's so good that I dream about it... Dodongo Cavern's finest quality rock sirloin!" As one could plainly see, this individual Goron has either been to, or come from Dodongo's Cavern in Hyrule.

3) If Termina is supposed to be an alternate version of Hyrule, the character models are the only evidence supporting this idea. However, in Termina there are no clones for the following characters from Hyrule:

-Saria -Impa -Raaru -Mido -The other Kokiri children -Zelda -The colonial American looking man from the Potion Shop -Ganondorf -And of course, Link

Additionally, in Hyrule, there are also no counterparts of Terminians like:

-The man and his daughter from Ikana Valley -The Beaver Bros. -The Deku butler -The Deku King -The Deku Princess -Gabora -Kafei -Kamaro -Zubura -Tingle

I would like someone's feedback, thank you. 72.191.174.31 (talk) 20:52, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If you can show us a source for your claim, then you may have a sufficient case. Without such a source, thought, putting your claim in the article constitutes original research, one the three deadly sins. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 05:08, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, most of my claims are technically in the game itself, in text and story. 216.57.96.1 (talk) 19:48, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The first time I ever heard that Termina was an alternate version of Hyrule was when I read the game's description on the Wii Shop Channel a few months ago. This description is also available at Nintendo.com and is quoted in part below.
 * Link must save the world! This time, he finds himself trapped in Termina, an alternate version of Hyrule that is doomed to destruction in just three short days.
 * I went to add this source to the article and realized it's already sourced using Zelda Universe. I went ahead and added this source to the article anyway. - sesu PRIME  04:46, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps that was written by someone working for Nintendo who'd never really played the game at all? I'd trust the game itself. 67.10.98.149 (talk) 00:09, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's possible. However, I would argue that the Wii Shop Channel counts as an official Nintendo publication. Not only that, this is one of Nintendo's more popular 64 titles. You'd think that if the game description were saying something innacurate, someone would have picked up on it by now and corrected it. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 05:47, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Interpretations of the game itself is original research, which is unacceptable for Wikipedia, and it certainly doesn't override the two given reliable sources. - sesu PRIME  05:54, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * How odd, you claim the idea of Termina being a parallel world to Hyrule is original research, yet the Zelda Wiki articles for [Termina] and [Majora's Mask] specifically state that Termina is a parallel world to Hyrule. Are you going to call the Zelda Wiki's articles a pack of lies then since they obviously don't support your claims, " sesu PRIME "? (Nice name by the way) 67.166.207.210 (talk) 17:27, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * An open wiki is not a reliable source. Rehevkor ✉  17:34, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Well then, going by that logic, Wikipedia would not be a reliable source either, so I guess I won't be reading its articles after this as they're not reliable. Good fight, dear sir. 67.166.207.210 (talk) 17:41, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not. Good bye. Rehevkor ✉  17:50, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Voice of Zora Link
How do we know Nobuyuki Hiyama is the voice of Link's Zora form? He is listed in the game's credits, but that's because he voiced Fierce Deity Link (that much is obvious). It actually sounds to me like they used snippets of young Link's voice and applied a distortion effect to get the Zora voice, like they did with his Deku form. However, it's original research to claim that either actor is Zora Link without a reliable source, which are very difficult to find for this. The only sources corroborating the article's claim are notoriously unreliable user-contributed sites like IMDb, and who's to say they didn't just copy whatever Wikipedia said? Interestingly, the Japanese Wikipedia claims he only voiced the Fierce Deity (aka demon) form (here and here). Of course, that can't be used as a source, but one can assume they have access to better information on the subject than we do.

I've added a tag for now, but should that bit of info just be removed? sesu prime  16:48, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Majora's Mask - Twilight Princess Connection?
Quoted directly from the article:

"He tells Link that Majora's Mask has an evil, apocalyptic power inside that was once used by an ancient tribe in hexing rituals. The ancient ones, fearing catastrophe caused by its great power, 'sealed the Mask in shadow forever' to prevent its misuse. This tribe vanished and the origin and nature of the Mask was lost."

This has me convinced of an idea that I had posted here previously - The tribe that possessed Majora's Mask was The Dark Interlopers, who eventually became the Twili. In addition to my hypothesis, I site the above quote and the fact that the tribe sealed their power within it, that Majora's Mask was in fact a Fused Shadow.

I posted this earlier and somehow it got deleted. Could the editors plz not remove it again? I know it's totally irrelevant but I really would like to hear other people's thoughts on this. If you do, I understand, and will simply post it elsewhere...

75.72.159.75 (talk) 04:01, 26 May 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.159.75 (talk)
 * I'm glad you understand, but for the sake of those who don't, let me explain. Wikipedia talk pages are intended for discussion of ways to improve the article, not general discussion about the subject of the article. Whether Majora's Mask is a Fused Shadow is not an appropriate topic here, unless the connection is mentioned by one of our reliable sources.Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 04:52, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

thanks man 75.72.159.75 (talk) 06:17, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

z-science
Hey, I had been tracking old zelda sites in the Internet Archive Wayback Machine, and I found some articles about a campaign Nintendo (I think it was only for America) did to promote Majora's Mask. It was some sort of ARG campaign apparently, with a fake website about a scientific research institution that discovered a parallel dimension. I was not around the zelda fandom at the time, so I missed all about that, but it sounds like it was really interesting and I'm surprised by how little I have found about it. Does anybody knows if it was an official campaign, or was it just a hoax? or something a fan did? z-science original website in the wayback machine: http://web.archive.org/web/20010516234329/http://www.z-science.com/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.250.231.5 (talk) 21:30, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I would guess that so little has been written about it because, like you, no one had previously heard of it. It might be worth a mention in the development section if it was an official promotion from Nintendo, but I couldn't find where it said that it was from Nintendo. You're sure about that? Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 02:22, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * the group is aperently called JRAMOA (MAJORA), it involves a doctor Tarin (the name of a character in Link's Awakening) Rugeshi (Shigeru Miyamoto), the so-called Z-day was October 24 (MM's release date), and the site redirects to the Nintendo site. while this information does not prove that it was Nintendo's idea, it does add some credit to the theory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.70.63.76 (talk) 20:26, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Mention of ben.avi?
The ben drowned thing is certainly notably, shouldn't it be added? 98.24.154.187 (talk) 21:10, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There's a Wired article.. maybe worth a mention? Rehevkor ✉  21:59, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

A visit to KYM lead me to an additional two articles. I imagine it's probably not too noteworthy in regards to the game itself, but maybe List of Internet phenomena? --Lenin and McCarthy |  (Complain here) 19:38, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Merger proposal

 * The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.  No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Discussion closed as merge. Merge performed on Oct 10. Axem Titanium (talk) 19:40, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

I support merging Operation Moonfall into this article - The fan campaign has had little impact outside of the world of fan campaigns, which run a dime a dozen. It has received coverage by reliable 24-hour online gaming sources, but not from a more diverse range of sources. Due to the limited actual notability, it is best-suited as an addition to this article (or possible as an "Impact" section in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D), rather than as a separate one. - Crabbattler (talk) 16:27, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It deserves to stay as much as Operation Rainfall. Thriceplus (talk) 17:54, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thriceplus, why do you say that? There are marked differences in the scope, impact, and response between these two 'Operations'. I point to WP:OSE when I ask why Moonfall is notable on its own merits. Axem Titanium (talk) 04:17, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I Disagree with merging it. Thriceplus has a point, Moonfall is roughly twice as big as Rainfall, why shouldn't it stay it's own page? It shouldn't be merged with Majora's Mask since it has so little to do with the game itself, it's purely part of the fan community. Anon 21:30, 6 October 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.235.167.113 (talk)
 * I think it could be merged. It only refers to one game, unlike Rainfall, and does not have that much content. Splitting off at this point seems unnecessary. Blake (Talk·Edits) 23:24, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

I support merging Operation Moonfall into Majora's Mask, for similar reasons to those stated by Crabbattler 180.4.82.50 (talk) 09:46, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

I support the merger as well. It is a small enough section to be safely merged, and isn't really big enough in scope (yet) to have it's own article. Vyselink (talk) 21:13, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

I vaguely support for the above reasons. The operation has received coverage but it's really piggy-backing on the notability of this game. LxRv (a.ka. Rehevkor) 21:29, 18 August 2011 (UTC) Support however, there should be a "legacy" section incorporated in some way to be able to fit in Operation Moonfall more clearly.Bread Ninja (talk) 08:55, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I support ther merger. talking Ch e  rry 10:58, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed. ButOnMethItIs (talk) 19:23, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

I support the merger also, pretty much the same reasoning as Vyselink. Lord Psyko Jo (talk) 20:58, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

I support it. There is no need to have a separate article, as it would fit perfectly into this one. If and/or when Majora's Mask becomes a 3DS game and its own article is made, I recommend then merging it into that article. --Arkatox (talk) 03:45, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

I support per LxRv. I think there is enough consensus to do this merger right now. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 22:36, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I support. Operation Moonfall does not seem notable enough as of yet to warrant its own page. It seems like it was created by fans who were interested in it to generate hype. Saibh (talk) 17:29, 29 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A Link to the Past connection
entry on "Pendants of Virtue" states that A Link to the Past has a direct connection to Majora's Mask. I'd like to invoke WP:BOLLOCKS on this, as a connection has not been stated in either game or directly by Nintendo. , while a wiki, suggests inconstancies within this site is not uncommon as while it is run by Nintendo, it is not made by them. Either way, while this primary source supports this, no independent sources have supported this. Яehevkor ✉  02:18, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Has someone tried to reference this in the article yet? At any rate, I don't think the source claims a connection between LTTP and MM. The entry on Pendants of Virtue does not mention MM or the Pendant of Memories, which may be why you thought it claimed a connection... Axem Titanium (talk) 04:46, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Crazy late reply here, but the entry references "Termina", the setting of MM, in connection to A Link to the Past. Яehevkor ✉  10:39, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I see where they make the reference, but since the article itself doesn't make any mention of it, I don't think we need to worry about it. The claim is patently ridiculous, has been contradicted by other official sources, and Zelda.com has a history of fudging up the canon. Axem Titanium (talk) 14:57, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Statements hidden due to lack of citation
I've barely skimmed thru the article for its music section, feeling the need to rewrite a line, when I noticed that a couple of statements were hidden in the text, apparently because they have no citation. Yet, they were tagged with.

I wanted to shed some light on this, because if someone had the knowledge to write these statements in the first place, there should also exist a source from which they learned it. But hiding the statements, because they require a citation, is not a constructive contribution to the article.

Seeing this, I suspect there might also be other instances of this behaviour elsewhere in the article. If anyone is up to look further into this, I encourage you to unveil the statements and leave them with the tag, so that other readers and editors might have a chance to cite them in the future. If anything, it might be of help to look thru the editing history of the article, to narrow down the users who added the statements, and try to get in touch with them.

I has unique username (talk) 18:45, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I see no problem with this, I imagine the text remained in the article for some time before it was hidden. This is not common practice but it's not unusual, especially in featured articles. It's no different from deleting unsourced and challenged texts entirely, which is also not unusual. Rather than hunting down contributors that probably added the text some years ago, it may be best to just find citations yourself. Яehevkor ✉  19:02, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's pretty much what I was going to say too; it's not really common, but not wrong either. Just a step in between "keeping it in the article with CN tags" and "deleting it outright". And as Rehevkor said, you'd probably be better off looking for a source than the person who wrote it. (For example, you could very well find that a random, user who hasn't edited since 2007 added it, and you're probably not likely to get a response from them...) Sergecross73   msg me   19:23, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * That point of view never crossed my mind. I see the logic now.
 * I has unique username (talk) 23:21, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Doesn't let you know its Dark
Anyone who has played The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask has noticed its one of the darkest of the series. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, its just that they don't mention that fact. All other Wiki sites, including Zelda Wiki, a large Wiki site committed to The Legend of Zelda. My point is that they should mention it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pikminer (talk • contribs) 06:06, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * That's kind of vague and subjective. Do you have a reliable source backing it up? Sergecross73   msg me   12:44, 5 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually Pikminer, it does indirectly touch on this commonly perceived aspect of the game in the Reception section, where several critics remarked on the overall atmosphere and tone of Majora's Mask: "oddest, darkest, and saddest of all Zelda games", "surreal and spooky, deep, and intriguing", "The Empire Strikes Back of Nintendo 64...it's the same franchise, but it's more intelligent, darker, and tells a much better storyline", etc. However, while I do think it's probably noteworthy that many fans regard it as an exceptionally unsettling game (myself only slightly included), your mileage may still vary.
 * Speaking as a long-time fan of the Zelda franchise, I've noticed that people only recently began to embrace Majora's Mask. I think this is due in large part to word-of-mouth. Many who were turned off by the game back when it was first released in 2000 decided to give it another go when it became available on the Wii Virtual Console. From there, its popularity started to rise dramatically &mdash; people who had owned the game for a long while on the N64 but never felt as engaged with it as its predecessor decided to dust off their old Majora's Mask cartridges for another playthrough (that was me, in a sense). And then there were the gamers who had sold all of their old console games, opting for emulators; they downloaded Majora's Mask out of curiosity too. They discovered that it was good: tons and tons of side quests, a strong (if somewhat stinted) main quest, some very powerful subplots, and a distinctive atmosphere. People became fascinated with its approach to mature themes and the undertone of dread it creates. Is it often overstated? Like I said, your mileage may vary. One thing's for sure &mdash; it did inspire a rather famous creepypasta from 2010.
 * I think a good chunk of what people describe as "dark" is actually rooted within preconceived notions they had adopted prior to even playing Majora's Mask. Try to understand where I'm coming from when I say this. Yes, Majora's Mask is certainly darker than the rest of the series &mdash; I mean frick, how many other games can you name where a creepy-faced moon is crashing into the Earth? But then you have those who describe it as a horror game at every level and consider it to be the single most disturbing work of fiction they have ever experienced, which is patently ridiculous. There's a real hysteria surrounding its tense atmosphere which I find at once intriguing and confusing, and I'll even go so far as to chalk it up to hype. It is widely known as "the dark game", a tale of horror and despair that will stay with you long after you've completed it. Yet the same could be said for many other games: Alundra, for example. Or Final Fantasy VI. But it's Majora's Mask that gets all the attention for its tone. And sure, it might be a bit creepier than most other Zelda games, but not by much.
 * I'll put it bluntly: if you can handle Ocarina of Time, chances are you can handle Majora's Mask.
 * Long story short, it may be worth mentioning somewhere in the article that Majora's Mask is seen as a dark title by many gamers, but as per Sergecross73 above, that would need a reliable source. I'm sure plenty exist. Kurtis (talk) 10:24, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Hyrule Historia as a reference
Not sure why I haven't done this before, but if anyone wants to use the Hyrule Historia as a reference in this article, here's what you'll need to properly cite it...

name of the author(s) - None given, at least not that I could find title of the book in italics - The Legend of Zelda: Hyrule Historia volume when appropriate - N/A, though my copy is 1st edition if that matters city of publication is optional - Milwaukie, OR (English ed.) name of the publisher - Dark Horse (English ed.) year of publication - 2011 (Japanese) 2013 (English) chapter or page number(s) where appropriate - pg 110-112 (for Majora's Mask) ISBN is optional - 978-1-61655-041-7

Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 08:49, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Game Theories
A new section should be added about popular theories about Majora's Mask. For example: "In The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, the five stages of grief have been found in the sections of Termina - Clock Town (The citizens denying their impending doom), Woodfall (The Deku King venting his Anger on the innocent Monkey), Snowhead (Darmani Bargaining Link to revive him, or to heal his sorrows), Great Bay (Lulu's Depression at the loss of her children) and Ikana Valley (The spirits Accepting their deaths)." (Five Stages of Grief). There are also theories about how Link dies at the beginning of the game, and Termina is some sort of Limbo. Here is a video explaining some of these theories. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.95.152.138 (talk) 01:04, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Unless there are reliable sources like those found at WP:VG/S discussing these theories, definitely not. Sergecross73   msg me   01:27, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a collection of unverifiable speculation, so these theories do not belong here. See WP:SPECULATION for more information. Thanks! Permafrost46 (talk) 03:34, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

i have seen those videosSuperdude122 (talk) 18:19, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

I sure hope someone comes up with a reliable source, because it's an awesome theory. PizzaMan (♨♨) 11:53, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I've just found several reliable sources, see, and . There are more, too. Would anyone object if I included this analysis in a subsection of Plot called Interpretation? All properly sourced and worded, of course. Featured article Blade Runner has a Themes section which includes entirely equivalent material, I would think this article would benefit from the same. Autonova (talk) 21:55, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not entirely convinced those sources are featured article worthy reliable sources. 1st appears doubtful, 2nd is a blog but may be worth discussion, 3rd is under discussion but is at best a situational source. Perhaps a WP:FAR is in order? Я</FONT>ehevkor ✉  11:06, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The sources I ended up using in the section are these:, , , and . The problem is, the interpretations are popular, insightful, and directly verifiable with the game's content, but as you say they aren't cast iron sources from renowned publications. Although, the bloggers who wrote them do regularly write articles and they do command enough attention to demand they check their facts. The Blade Runner article includes similar sources, but many of them are books rather than blogs. If a featured article review is easy to do and revealing of what constitutes an adequate source then I'm all for it. Autonova (talk) 16:08, 4 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Well no, on the specific point of reviewing sources, you just post them to the Talk page at WP:VGRS. Also, it'd be cool if someone contacted some RS like IGN or Polygon, to write a summary of this stuff. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 16:23, 4 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Ok thanks. I've started a discussion on the reliability of Zeldadungeon. Vis a vis the remaining two sources, the zeldainformer source is already under discussion, and the cracked.com source is clearly reliable, but I'll start a discussion on that just to be thorough. Autonova (talk) 17:21, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * To be honest if sources aren't cast iron their place in a featured article has to be carefully considered (and by their very nature interpretations/theories are not directly verifiable to the game). LxRv (a.ka. Rehevkor) 20:03, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed - I was very careful in selecting the sources. Although it's been reverted I'll continue to discuss it behind the scenes. Other works of art such as Blade Runner and Las Meninas have interpretation sections, where the main opinions about the work's meaning are detailed and analysed, and I think this article would benefit from the same. Autonova (talk) 22:02, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * There are some rather large discrepancies between what's happening in Blade Runner and your proposed addition to Majora's mask here. The "Themes" content in Blade Runner come from in-depth scholarly dissections from books and scholarly journals. High level stuff like this. Your proposal, as seen here takes a humor/satire website (Cracked.com) about "Crazy Fan Theories" that was cited back to a Zelda fansite - which are generally not considered an WP:RS. Very different sourcing and analysis. Sergecross73   msg me  00:59, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

On a separate note, I came across this source, which was also brought up on my talk page. I do believe this is good content to add, and Game Informer is definitely a reliable source. But it really should be used strictly in the context given - Aouna concedes that there are themes with emotions in the game, but seems to be saying that the "5 Stages of Grief" theory, while loosely can be seen as fitting, wasn't their direct intent. Sergecross73  msg me  00:59, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I appreciate your point about the sources, but, bearing in mind the Blade Runner section, is the style of writing appropriate? I'll continue looking for better sources. Autonova (talk) 10:26, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I think it could be appropriate, if it has Blade Runner type sourcing. Blade Runner has all sorts of evaluations on it, so its easier to make the claim of "It has been interpreted" type statements. With sources like you're working on, it'd only be accurate to make statements more like "Editor X of website Y found that the game's themes mirrored theory z". When you only have a single source or two, it's harder to accurately make those sorts of generalizations... Sergecross73   msg me  13:32, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay I see, thanks. Autonova (talk) 14:31, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Dead Links
Using the Checklinks tool, I've gone through and updated dead links in the article. A few notes:


 * Ref 3 (fixed) updated with Wayback, removed dead link tag.
 * Ref 52 (fixed*) I updated a reference in the Video Game Reviews box for toptenreviews.com, but it looks like the TTR parameter is invalid, as the score is not displayed in the box in the article. I'm not sure if it should be changed or removed entirely, but it doesn't show up in the article.
 * Ref 53 (fixed*) not actually broken, but the web archive version previously cited did not contain the information the citation is used to support. I've updated it to a later snapshot of the page that contains the relevant information.
 * Ref 56 (fixed) updated with Wayback.
 * Ref 76 (fixed) updated with Wayback, removed dead link tag.

--chrisFjordson (talk) 00:00, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

New page for Majora's Mask 3D?
I'd suggest that we create a new page for the 3D "remastering" of Majora's Mask, just like with the 3D remake of Ocarina of Time a while back. Its obvious that we might have just enough info to go foward. TheMeaningOfBlah (talk) 01:05, 6 November 2014 (UTC)


 * For now, let's leave it as a section. When it gets closer to release and more sources are published, it'll probably be fine (I have little doubt of there being enough to make a new article sooner or later), but for right now, it's too early for a separate article. <font style="text-shadow:0em 0em 0.75em #B87333;">Supernerd11 Firemind <font color="9F000F">^_^ Pokedex 05:26, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Mask of the Mujula
Hi guys. I stumbled upon this reference which was archived in March 2000 (though I didn't go backward to narrow down when it was originally published to the site), wherein Nintendo.com referred to the game as The Legend of Zelda: Gaiden and The Legend of Zelda: The Mask of Mujula. These two names are expansions of the article's existing use of "Zelda: Gaiden" (and I imagine that "Zelda 64: Gaiden" was also historically seen) and "Mujula". Do you guys think it's noteworthy to include this as a historical note, or is it just an ephemeral mistranslation? I don't know enough context to know the significance or common use. Obviously the game was developed predominantly in Japan, and Nintendo of America was far behind on such things and most of that subsidiary's employees never fluently spoke Japanese. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 12:44, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

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Open world
Why isn't this part of the open world video games category? Ocarina of Time is part of it, and both games are very similar.
 * Personally, I don't think Ocarina should be a part of it to begin with, as the game predates the commonplace usage of the term. It also doesn't really fit the general definition of open world either (as parts of the world are blocked off until a certain item is collected). ~ <b style="color: #660000;">Dissident93</b> (<b style="color: #D18719;">talk</b>) 01:16, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Ben Drowned
I am proposing that the recently created Ben Drowned be restored to a redirect due to the article's myriad WP:OR and WP:FANCRUFT issues. There is little effort on the creator's part to address most of the article's problems, which include paragraphs being cited to Discord chatrooms, Spotify urls, podcasts, and primary-source materials that fail to support the claims. Several extremely long sections fail to cite any sources at all. 2601:192:8800:6F60:7522:61F4:1E14:1166 (talk) 21:27, 11 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose 74.90.120.94 (talk) 02:30, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yikes. I nominated it at AfD for a proper discussion. ~ <b style="color: #660000;">Dissident93</b> (<b style="color: #D18719;">talk</b>) 09:43, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

More comments on Talk:Ben Drowned. 2601:192:8800:6F60:7148:1AA3:70F0:C489 (talk) 21:55, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose Creator here, see nomination. KMWeiland (talk) 15:05, 12 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose. You know that saying of AFD not being cleanup? This applies to Merge discussions. I'll agree the plot summary section needs cutting, and certain info in one of its subsections needs citations, but otherwise a merge does not need to happen. 👨x🐱 ( Nina Cortex x Coco Bandicoot ) 03:30, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Result of AfD discussion was to Keep Ben Drowned as a separate complete page, with the merge proposer agreeing that notability has been met. KMWeiland (talk) 23:21, 25 June 2020 (UTC)


 * It's time to WP:DROPTHESTICK, anon IP editor. Any issues you might have with the article can be resolved there and at its talk page; not by trying AfD and merges again and again. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 15:33, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Reader polls
Per WP:VG/REC, we should be generalizing these ranked polls/lists to avoid cluttered and badly written prose. On top of that, we should not be using GameFAQs as any sort of source because the entire site is user-submitted. We could mention their reader polls if it was covered by a third-party source however. ~ <b style="color: #660000;">Dissident93</b> (<b style="color: #D18719;">talk</b>) 23:06, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Game Cartridge Deterioration
I'm still not used to Wikipedia editing, but this is something fairly notable in my opinion and I believe it deserves a place on this article. The original cartridge for this game is extremely fragile due to the plastics used, something Transformers fans call Gold Plastic Syndrome (Which might need an article here as well given how prevalent it is amongst vintage toys and similar items). Sadly, it's hard to find articles talking about Gold Plastic Syndrome and the items it has affected. The only place I can find that has a documented list of GPS items is the Gold Plastic Syndrome page on TFWiki.net which can be found here: https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Gold_Plastic_Syndrome

However, the problem with this page is that it only documents GPS items from the Transformers franchise and their related toylines. However, it is possible to find instances of people referring to the problem these cartridges have as GPS. One instance is this Imgur gallery: https://imgur.com/gallery/1LklDUr. I also have two videos that describe Gold Plastic Syndrome, one showcasing an example and the other is the former lead designer of Transformers at Hasbro describing GPS and discussing it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcjAUN5Ssj8 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clP1CcxSZY4

Gold Plastic Syndrome is different from normal plastic breakage on items like these as it's not caused by someone stressing the plastic, it is instead caused by the chemistry of the plastic breaking down much faster than normal and becoming extremely brittle. A GPS item can be denoted by showing little to no stress marks upon breakage, which seems to be the case with Majora's Mask breakage. Photos of this can be found at https://www.reddit.com/r/gamecollecting/comments/xw93m/got_a_deal_on_a_broken_majoras_mask_cartridge/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/n64/comments/etugkt/rescued_a_wrecked_copy_of_majoras_mask_someone/. If you look at the examples shown on the TFWiki page, you'll see similar breakage.

The problem with sourcing this is that while this type of breakage is known, it's not been talked about in large papers and is only called GPS in the toy collecting fandom. I can show you countless examples of it breaking in the way I have shown off, but given the age of the cartridge and the fact that this is only talked about amongst a small niche of collectors means no one has really talked about it in a large article. I don't know if this would count as original research or if the links I've provided would count as a decent source, nor am I saying that we should call this breakage GPS as that's almost exclusively used by the Transformers fandom. However, I do believe given the fact that it is known amongst the vintage game collector fandom, we should at least include some note of it. I don't know if this counts as an extraordinary claim or not, but I tried my best to find sources that can help back it. PaladinDenn (talk) 06:43, 23 March 2022 (UTC)


 * None of the sources included is reliable. In order for it to be written, there must be sources that explicitly state its noteworthiness. (CC) Tb hotch ™ 06:56, 23 March 2022 (UTC)