Talk:The Maritimes

Article Authenticity
There are no formal regional boundaries in Canada. Ontario is described by some people as part of Central Canada, and others as part of Eastern Canada. Manitoba is in the Central Time Zone yet many people associate it with Western Canada. The word maritime simply denotes "of the sea" and any body of land that borders or is associated with the sea can be described as a maritime state or province (i.e. British Columbia and Quebec can be considered maritime provinces, and Maine is a maritime state). The introduction to this article which describes the "controversy" of Newfoundland and Labrador being part of the "maritime region" is not scholarly, is unsourced, and has no place in an encylopedia. There is no governing body or recognized boundaries for the "regions" of Canada, and their use is colloquial at best.
 * Take a look at the Constitution Act, 1867, Section 22: "The Maritime Provinces, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, and Prince Edward Island;" Maritimes is a term defined in law, and it excludes Newfoundland and Labrador. Indefatigable (talk) 16:22, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Article Organization

 * This page seems too long and/or needs to be cleaned up. I'd propose creating separate sub-articles/entries History of the Maritimes, Geography of the Maritimes, and Economy of the Maritimes for the detailed information while maintaining only quick and dirty facts about the region in this article, along with a map.  Anyone else have suggestions?  Cheers, Plasma east 16:59, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Maritime Union

 * The article mentions occassional talks of a Maritime Union. Does anyone know what name or names have been proposed for said Union? Nik42 08:10, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't think a name was ever seriously discussed, given that the concept itself has proven difficult to arrive at, regarding consensus among the provinces. The name "Maritimes" has been in use since colonial days.  I recall reading where the name "Atlantica" was proposed by journalists and possibly politicians during the last serious attempts during the 1960s, but these discussions resulted in regional inter-provincial cooperation and creation of several institutions rather than a formal union (ie. creation of Council of Maritime Premiers, Maritime Provinces Higher Education Commission, etc...)Plasma east 06:26, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Political Bias

 * The entire "politics" section of this article is biased and generated using opinion. Statements like "All three provinces were governed by provincial Progressive Conservative parties until 2006," are incorrect.  Please ensure that submissions are factual.

Andrewmta 17:45, 8 Feb 2008 (UTC)

Nova Scotia Bias?
Maybe I'm just crazy-which is a definate possibility-but it seems to me that this article is very Nova Scotia-centric. They do have the largest population of the three provinces, but New Brunswick is not that far behind, so personaly, I think NB should play a larger part in this article. Mylesmalley 23:32, 29 June 2005 (UTC)


 * I have trouble seeing why you find this bias. New Brunswick is fairly large I will grant you that but none of its cities are major cities. True, only Halifax serves as the only major city in Nova Scotia but it is also recognized as a major city internationally and it holds a large percentage of the population of the maritimes (15%). Also New Brunswick is fairly far behind if you didn't realize (NB - 757 100, NS - 937,889). That's almost 200 000 people and both province's don't grow very fast. Also obviously people from Nova Scotia are going to talk alot about their province and its not like us Nova Scotians are going to make New Brunswick seem insignificant I mean, I think we covered in the article that NB is fairly large and is a major contributer to the maritime community and if you want to add more depth into the New Brunswick side of the article then by all means do it (just make sure your facts are straight). I am agreeing with the point that New Brunswick could be talked a little bit more in depth in this article but really, I don't see how you can say that Nova Scotia is making themselves look better then New Brunswick because that's just not true. Theyab 07 15:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, when discussing the history of the region, Nova Scotia was all of the lands of Acadia until the 1780s. So it can appear to be confusing, because all the history of the Maritimes in New Brunswick in, for example,  1760 was happening in Sunbury County, Nova Scotia as well.  But I agree, generally, more NB stuff needs to be inserted. Be bold and put some in! WayeMason 12:20, 18 October 2005 (UTC)


 * If there is a Nova Scotia bias, I'll take the blame since I rewrote much of the history section many months ago. My intention was to highlight pre-history and aboriginal settlement, followed by European exploration and settlement (much of which was initially concentrated on the southern side of the Bay of Fundy), followed by the sparse Acadian settlements around the bay and elsewhere, etc. etc.  The timeline and events probably need to be updated by someone who has the time to properly research it - things should be condensed too.  I can't claim to be biased toward NS ahead of NB based on residency - I have lived in all 3 Maritime provinces and currently live outside of the region.


 * Also, I really wish people would use these discussion forums for intelligent discourse about the article at hand, and not highlight their own ignorance on issues such as this discussion about NS vs. NB, etc. The nice thing about Wikipedia is that if you feel there's a problem, edit it! Plasma east 01:47, 5 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I have a suggestion; why not create seperate sections for/against the provinces. This would allow for people to easily spot any biased comments and it would also allow for the re-organization this page so badly needs. Mind you the history section of the entire maritimes should stay as the articles is called "the martimes" and the history pretains to the entire martimes. Maybe a breif description of the history of each province, and maybe how the province interacts with the maritimes as a whole. Anyways just a suggestion, oh and sorry if I offended anyone, acted ignorant, or wrote some biased comments myself none of these were intentional. Anyways I hope to hear what you think. Theyab 22:43, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Decline is not the end of the story...
I think that its out of date to end the section with decline. Recover, maybe? WayeMason 02:40, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Moratorium
I find it highly distressing that there really is no mention to the moratorium that has been placed in the area because of the over fishing of Cod. This is a huge impact on the region and many people have left or are living in poverty because so much of the economy was wiped out by this.-Bio2590 23:35, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Go to it my brother (or sister)... WayeMason 23:55, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, the Cod Moratorium was not a significant blow to the Maritimes but to Newfoundland which, as is explained in the opening paragraphs, is not a part of the Martimes. - Jord 04:42, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Time heals all wounds, I guess, but I am pretty sure 12K direct jobs were lost in Nova Scotia alone. Cod was big on the south shore and french shore... but I have no facts to back that up, so thats why I am not adding it, its just what I vaguely remember.  The economy here was more robust than NLs and it was less jobs, but it was still a big impact...  or so I recall! WayeMason 19:28, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Prohibition
Near the end of the article it says that the Maritime Provinces were strong supporters of alcohol prohibition. It then says that "some rural communities in Nova Scotia remain 'dry' to this day. Umm.. I'm pretty sure that's not true. If it is we'll need to find a source. Thomasiscool 02:11, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Check out these sources....
 * http://www.novascotiabusinessjournal.com/index.cfm?sid=31373&sc=107
 * http://www.hfxnews.ca/index.cfm?sid=6503&sc=89
 * http://www.novascotiabusinessjournal.com/index.cfm?sid=24644&sc=107
 * http://trurodaily.com/index.cfm?sid=24249&sc=68
 * http://www.whcc.ca/may0107.htm
 * http://polisci.wisc.edu/~schrad/Prohibition%20Option%20Dissertation.pdf
 * Association Against the Prohibition Amendment, Last Outposts of Prohibition in Canada: Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island (Washington, DC, 1929)
 * http://www.novanewsnow.com/article-i61981-Bear-River-may-get-wetter.html


 * Prohibition ended provincially before World War II in NB and NS and in the late 1940s in PEI but many pro-temperance communities in Nova Scotia and PEI (they were largely rural) enacted laws banning the sale of alcohol when prohibition ended. Thus they became "dry communities" just like many remote communities in the Arctic remain dry to this very day.  Granted, many NS dry communities have been holding plebescites in recent years to allow retail liquor outlets and restaurants to sell alcohol, but there are still quite a few out there.  There just aren't many people living in them and they don't make the media's radar screen.


 * Plasma east 17:18, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

New Province
What did I hear on the news about a fourth province? I only heard a quick news commercial on CTV and it said something about the maritimes getting a fourth province but I couldnt find the news that discussed it


 * You probably saw something about the possibility of Cape Breton Island, part of Nova Scotia, becoming a separate province. There is a separatist group who are trying to make this happen, but in my opinion its very unlikely. Thomasiscool 14:11, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

There have also been private members' bills introduced in Parliament over the past couple of decades to extend an invitation to Turks and Caicos in the Carribean to join Canada. This is more likely to occur than Cape Breton separating, but still remote. In addition, the T&C would not become a new province, but would most likely become part of Nova Scotia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.68.66.254 (talk) 02:28, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Population Centres
I've found several major problems with the table about the biggest population centres in the Maritimes. One of them is thatsome counties in Nova Scotia are included and some are not. Then I read where it said that Kentville has a population of over 25 000, which is wrong (is this figure for an area of western Kings County rather than the town of Kentville?). Consequently, I have temporarily removed the table, and if I can find the facts, I will put it back in. Thomasiscool 14:22, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe those stats were provided by another editor who used the Census Agglomeration stats as provided by Statistics Canada. You are correct in that they are not the actual incorporated community but rather for the surrounding area that the community influences.  Here's the link to Kentville (town) population  and here it is for the Kentville (Census Agglomeration) popualtion


 * Plasma east 17:39, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

First sentence word order/article title, capitalization of terms
The first sentence is currently
 * “The Maritime provinces, also called the Maritimes or the Canadian Maritimes, is a region of Eastern Canada consisting of three provinces, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island.”

Since the article title is currently The Maritimes, common sense and MOS:BEGIN suggest the Maritimes should be the subject of the sentence, which could be done by reversing "Maritime provinces" and "Maritimes" at the beginning of the sentence. An alternative would be leaving that wording as is, but changing the article title to "The Maritime provinces".

Also, if the Maritime provinces denotes a region, rather than a group of provinces, shouldn't provinces be capitalized, as the Maritime Provinces? Currently this article uses Maritime Provinces, Maritime provinces, and maritime provinces. I assume as a region both are capitalized, but beyond that I'm not too clear on what's typical. A quick check of recent New York Times articles, as one source, in a 1981 article wrote about "a trip to the Maritime Provinces", in a 1994 article referred to "the 1840's...in the maritime provinces of Canada", and in a 2003 article wrote "as well as Ontario, Quebec and the Maritime provinces."

Perhaps it should be mentioned that the three terms used in the opening sentence can refer either to a region comprised of the three provinces, or to the provinces themselves, if that's accurate? I'm not that familiar with the topic, but that seems to be what some googling indicates. I'm sure some Maritimers know much more about this than I do.

Agyle (talk) 20:25, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Latitude
From the intro: "All three provinces are entirely south of the southernmost extremity of Western Canada..."

Western Canada, as linked, includes Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba and Saskatchewan. It seems unlikely that the Maritime provinces are entirely south of the US-Canada border. Is this a typo of "Northern Canada"? Tranquilled (talk) 17:53, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Nope. its true. All of these provinces are south of the 49th parallel. St. John's, Newfoundland is still slightly to the south of it. Eastern Canada dips quite a bit further down than the west. 75.156.70.214 (talk) 17:19, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Major Edit
Hi folks, sometime in the next two weeks I am coming with my knife, shovel and bucket and I am going to clean this article up. To start I will deleted every bit of original work and claims with no sources. I expect at that point the article will be about 200 words long. If you are particularly passionate about something in this article now is the time to edit and cite. WayeMason (talk) 11:51, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 15 November 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: No consensus. Only one comment since this was relisted for a second time nine days ago. There is a majority in favour of a move, but there is no consensus on what that move should be. Given the possibility that those who support the move as proposed may oppose a move to "Maritime Provinces" and that those who oppose the move as proposed may likewise oppose such a move, the only choice is to leave it as is. (non-admin closure) Srnec (talk) 03:04, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

The Maritimes → Maritimes – Per WP:THE, we should only include "The" in the name if one of the two conditions are met: (1) If a word with a definite article has a different meaning with respect to the same word without the article, and (2) If the definite or indefinite article would be capitalized in running text. (1) is not met because there is no other major meaning of "Maritimes", and Maritimes has always redirected to The Martimes. And (2) from a search for "the maritimes is" and [a search for "the maritimes are" (search terms designed to analyse usage in running text), we see that virtually no websites capitalise "the".

Note: I initially moved this in August, because the evidence seems strong enough to make this uncontroversial. But it was then reverted this morning by, and reaffirmed at the old title by , so here we are discussing it. Thanks &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 09:23, 15 November 2018 (UTC) --Relisting.  Steel1943  (talk) 05:39, 25 November 2018 (UTC)  --Relisting.   Calidum   04:19, 5 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Support Maritime Provinces (or provinces, no opinion on capitalization). "Maritimes" alone I'm not sure is precise enough, while "Maritime Provinces" is both a familiar phrase and also instantly makes clear what this is referring to. SnowFire (talk) 19:05, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Also Support Maritime Provinces (or to a lesser extent, retain The Maritimes as the title). "Maritimes" by itself is very confusing as other places can also be called Maritimes, such as Maritime Southeast Asia. Kenwick (talk) 06:24, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Is Maritime Southeast Asia referred to as "the Maritimes"? I'm fairly certain the word is used as an adjective in "Maritime Southeast Asia", whereas it's a noun in the Canadian "Maritimes". 83.248.186.87 (talk) 11:14, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment I would also like to point out that as far as "The Maritimes" are concerned, it was actually at that title for years until August, when another user moved it without discussion. Now, it has been moved back by an admin. Kenwick (talk) 06:38, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Move to Maritime provinces per SnowFire and Kenwick. The word "provinces" is not a proper noun and should not be capitalized.  ONR  (talk)  05:33, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support Canadian Maritime Provinces (in case there are other maritime provinces in the world) Xindeho (talk) 07:35, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * There aren't, none that are a "province" in title at least. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:42, 21 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment I don't think "Maritime provinces" is the common name of this region. Maybe a disambiguate-r like "Maritimes (Canada)" would be better suited. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 14:26, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support as proposed. “The” is inappropriate per WP:THE. “Maritimes” is the common name, and this is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC of that term. The risk of confusion with anything else is minimal, as Maritimes already redirects here and would continue to do so.—Cúchullain t/ c 15:34, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment: "Maritimes" is also much more common than "Maritime provinces" (or Atlantic Canada, which is a broader subject.).--Cúchullain t/ c 23:09, 18 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Support as proposed. I agree with Cuchullain. Maritimes has been redirecting to The Maritimes; we can just use a hat note to point to the Maritime Southeast Asia article. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 23:03, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support Maritime provinces, I think the capital-P is unnecessary, and (Canada) as disambiguation doesn't appear necessary either. As a very different suggestion, this could simply be merged to the separate article under the more modern term Atlantic Canada. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 05:01, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Atlantic Canada and the Martimes are not the same. The former includes an additional province. 83.248.186.87 (talk) 11:14, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support Maritimes or Maritime provinces . GoodDay (talk) 15:00, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support the proposed move to "Maritimes". This is similar to The Hebrides or The Great Lakes, which are both commonly referred to with a "The" article, but for Wikipedia purposes their article titles don't (per WP:THE).   PK  T (alk)  15:39, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose bases on too narrow of a reading of the guideline. "Besides the above-mentioned cases, "The" is sometimes used at the beginning of some other proper names" and it is almost always called "The Maritimes". Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:37, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support- per nom and PKT. JC7V (talk) 00:50, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support the proposal per WP:THE but prefer Maritime Provinces. —  AjaxSmack  02:38, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support Maritime Provinces. Less colloquial. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:34, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep at "The Maritimes" (first choice) or move to "Maritime provinces" (lowercase P, second choice, "provinces" is not a formal title in this context). The first condition of WP:THE is met because maritime is a distinct general concept and may also be ambiguous with Maritime Region, and the second is often met in reliable sources as well. Disambiguation is not required: as far as I can tell none of Maritime Southeast Asia, Maritime Alps, or Maritime Region, are ever referred to as "the maritimes". Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:40, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Nearly every source cited refers to this place with a "the". The government of Canada here calls it "the Maritimes Region".  This "the" is a function word which indicates that the noun which follows is a member of a particular class (provinces in Canada's Atlantic region).  Removing the "the" would be awkward.  Magnolia677 (talk) 15:10, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Your argument could also be applied to the Great Lakes, since "the" is also used as a function word there. Is it grammatically different with "the Maritimes"? 83.248.186.87 (talk) 11:14, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support move to Maritimes per Vaselineeeeeeee, WP:THE, and WP:COMMONNAME. 83.248.186.87 (talk) 11:14, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The proposed is ambiguous, and is not what is used in sources. The options are The Maritimes, Maritime provinces or Canadian Maritimes. This case is a standard exception to the usual WP:THE rational.  Leave the title alone per WP:TITLECHANGES. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 13:19, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Support per the Great Lakes, the Falkland Islands, the Azores, the Ukraine (archaic), the European Union, the District of Columbia, the Arctic, the Outback, and the United States, etc. Let's stick to the policy by renaming as proposed.  Paine Ellsworth , ed. put'r there  13:36, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Support Maritime provinces and Oppose Maritimes, primarily per Ivanvector and Snowfire (though my preferences are the other way around to Ivanvector's). Iffy★Chat -- 12:04, 11 December 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Political Section - Strange, un-cited assumptions
The 'Politics' section repeatedly essentially talks about how Maritimers only vote for parties like the Liberals or NDP because of handouts and unemployment. The section specifically talks about how French Maritimers vote for those parties because of handouts and unemployment. That is both false, and incredibly insulting (and quite honestly borders on being racist). Acadians (a majority of French Maritimers) vote the way they do because of their personal values. Not for personal benefit.

Honestly, in general, the whole thing about Maritimers generally being 'socially conservative' needs a big re-think, especially looking at the last few decades of elections. If nothing else, it's an odd thing to highlight, as it may very well not be true. It genuinely feels like someone not from here who has a dislike of the region wrote this section. At the very least, a review would be advisable. 47.54.6.123 (talk) 04:12, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

It also seems outdated that the section has no mention of the Green Party, which has had quite a bit of action in the region in recent years. Electing a federal member in New Brunswick, and becoming the official opposition in PEI provincially. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.54.6.123 (talk) 04:29, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

I just to add to this discussion, because I think it raises a crucial point, not just about the actual political culture of the region, but also about how stereotypes of the region continue to circulate. Although there was once a considerable body of scholarship that deemed the region more conservative than other parts of Canada, virtually all scholarship on the region since the 1970s has contested the stereotype of the region's "innate conservatism." I would like to revise / rewrite this section myself, but I don't have the time. A good source to begin with would be Ernie Forbes's Challenging the Regional Stereotype: Essays on the 20th Century Maritimes (Acadiensis Press 1989). Another great source is The Atlantic Provinces in Confederation (University of Toronto Press 1993, rpt. 1997, 2001), which includes chapters from every leading historian of the region and which was awarded the Canadian Historical Association's Regional Certificate of Merit. There, one can find plenty of challenges to the stereotype of Maritime social conservatism. For instance, in his own chapter on the 1910s, Ian McKay points to progressive reform and post-WW1 working-class revolt as constituting significant social-political movements that directly contradict the "stereotype of a region slumbering in its contented conservatism" (193). Similarly, David Frank writes in the chapter that follows that "recent work on the history of the 1920s in the Maritimes contradicts the stereotype of conservatism that earlier writers have been too ready to accept" (236). "In its place," writes Frank, "we can see that some important groups of Maritimers failed to accept the decline of the region with equanimity and mounted a struggle against the legacy of underdevelopment" (236).

Furthermore, scholarship contesting blinkered interpretations of the region as essentially conservative is not limited to the work of historians. Ian Stewart's Roasting Chestnuts: The Mythology of Maritime Political Culture (1994) offers perhaps the best analysis of the region's political culture from the perspective of political science. And with regard to literary and cultural analyses, Tony Tremblay's work on modernism in New Brunswick offers an important corrective to the apparent consensus in Canadian cultural history that Maritime writing and art between 1900 and 1960 was almost invariably traditionalist, conservative, and antimodernist. Of particular note are his essay "Landscapes of Reception: Historicizing the Travails of the New Brunswick Literary Modernists" in Making Canada New: Editing, Modernism, and New Media (U of Toronto P 2017) and his recent book The Fiddlehead Moment: Pioneering an Alternative Canadian Modernism in New Brunswick (McGill-Queens UP 2020). Finally, Herb Wyile's Anne of Tim Hortons: Globalization and the Reshaping of Atlantic-Canadian Literature (Wilfred Laurier UP 2011) offers an examination of contemporary literature from Atlantic Canada to similarly contest a variety of stereotypes, including conservatism, associated with the Atlantic Provinces more broadly.

These are just some of the more significant works--there is a vast body of scholarship in articles (see particularly the journal Acadiensis) that all contradict the idea that the Maritimes is and/or ever was essentially conservative. The point is not that there haven't been significant conservatisms in the region, nor that conservative Maritimers don't make up a considerable portion of the region's population; rather, the point is that saying the Maritimes is "socially conservative" without substantial qualification is reductive, naive, and mistaken. It deserves direct comment, though, because the region does remain conservative in the popular imagination of many Canadians (including many Maritimers themselves). — Preceding unsigned comment added by J.williamjohnson (talk • contribs) 18:07, 16 July 2020 (UTC)