Talk:The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya/Archive 1

Lead
(quote) The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱, Suzumiya Haruhi no Yūutsu?)is the name of a 2006 anime based on a series of novels by the same name.

Hmmm... this wording unfortunately ascribes "the same name" to the whole series of novels, rather than the first novel only. How about:

The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱, Suzumiya Haruhi no Yūutsu) is the name of a 2006 anime based on a series of novels the first of which bears the same name.

--Iain David Stewart 23:34, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with this. I'm about to perform some clean up to the test article, and I'll include this change. One major change is the exclusion of the Themes section which seems to be nothing more than fan speculation.--  十  八  05:31, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

GA?
I was just looking through this page, and it seems like it may pass GA. It's well written, verifiable, neutral, and covers a large range of the material, appropriate for it. Interested in nominating it?Sbloemeke 11:08, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, why not?--  十  八  11:12, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

No merger:
We already established this at WP:HARUHI. The light novel and anime should not be in the same article, as the light novel only deals with episodes 2, 3, 5, 10, 13, and 14. The other 8 episodes are not from that light novel. Thus why we need two articles. I'm going to remove the merger suggestion.Sbloemeke 11:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I also agree on this point and the fact that when the second season roles around, we're going to need a separate page for the anime anyway.--  十  八  11:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Evaluation for GA
The pictures are fine. You might want to have to have a spoilers tag in the plot section. However the writing seems a little POV in the fan section: "The series has been met with immense popularity and a dedicated fanbase, and has become a cult television series." "The concept of Haruhiism is humorously portrayed by fans to be somewhat of a pseudoreligion, with Haruhi as "God."" In the episodes section, there's problems with the prose: "During the previews for the next episode, the viewers are always given two different numbers for the following episode (except for episode number twelve), one number from Haruhi, who numbers the episodes according to where they actually fit chronologically in the plot, and one number from Kyon, who lists the episode numbers in the order in which they aired." In the first half of the article, there are several paragraphs without citations. A bit needs to be done unfortunately :(.◙◙◙  I M Kmarinas86 U O 2¢  ◙◙◙ 01:02, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Fixed. The prose has been cleaned up and references added. Anything else? Sephiroth BCR (Converse)  06:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Better. At this point, I think it has a better chance of making it.◙◙◙  I M Kmarinas86  U O 2¢  ◙◙◙ 12:00, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Are you saying we should try a renom, or that it is just better?Sbloemeke 22:10, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * This article fine, though it might be toned down a bit. "The series has been met with a great deal of popularity and a dedicated fanbase..." The phrase "dedicated fanbase" is good, but a "great deal of popularity" is unclear wording. What is a deal? LOL.  This article still makes it though.  Passed.◙◙◙  I M Kmarinas86  U O 2¢  ◙◙◙ 00:23, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Product Placement
Apparantly, the 10th episode of Lucky Star, an anime which is also produced by Kyoto Animation, contained explicit product placement for the Haruhi Vol 5 DVD, it might be worth a mention. Link to source: - Vadigor 20:58, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. If anything, that is blatent trivia since the reference was 1) very brief, and 2) Lucky Star has a ton of references to other anime, which could be seen as "product placement" too.--  十  八  00:14, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * There has been many Haruhi references in Lucky Star; I just seen a few in episode 12 (phone cards, posters, ad truck, manga, figures, etc.) I have seen references in Hayate no Gotoku a few times, so just mentioned that this anime was referenced in X and Y series (I am not a big fan of trivia, but if there has to be some, this might be doable). User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 06:14, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

ASOS Brigade
So, I noticed that this section is becoming larger and larger. Should it be its own article, perhaps, with a link from here?Sbloemeke 13:07, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think that asosbrigade.com would qualify for it's own article per WP:WEB if that is what you mean to do. The basis of that entire section is the website, so I think for now we should just keep it here, or trim it down some of some information that is more or less cruft, or otherwise unimportant to the subject matter.--  十  八  22:25, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Does it really need much more of a mention other than it exists?Sbloemeke 03:34, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

AnimeExpo 2007
Ok, I just got back from that today, and this is what I can personally tell you. Yes, the three Haruhi gals were present at AX, but were late. They were not present at the opening ceremony, since they were flying over San Francisco in a prepared message to us. The dance contest was held on Friday and Saturday (with the winners announced on Saturday). The concert was held, but was delayed due to technical issues, but they were still present during the show. The winners did go and danced with the gals, but during the actual contest, the Bandai USA gals were there (I didn't take photos since I was on one of the dancing team). I know they had an autograph signing, but that had some issues and not sure if they were present at the closing ceremony, since I was already back home when it began). Anyways, I did take photos, I did cosplay as Kyon, so I will need to see how my camera held up and see if any pics came out. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 06:26, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hare Hare Yukai pictures came out OK, but pictures of some of the cosplayers and the manga books I purchased failed. Anyways, uploaded one of them. Enjoy User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 21:50, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Music
"There were four insert songs included in the anime."

In fact there is a fifth. The last piece of classical music in "Day of Sagittarius" is the end of the last movement of Symphony No. 4 In F Minor by Peter Tchaikovsky. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.238.76.116 (talk • contribs)

This section should state which movements of the symphonies are used. As written now, it seems to be saying that the entire symphonies are used, which is of course impossible; Mahler's Symphony No. 8 runs for over an hour! It also refers to them as "songs", which is inaccurate, as only the Mahler has vocals. &mdash; Gwalla | Talk 20:18, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Ratings
It has been mentioned that it is unclear as to exactly how popular the show is. Anime News Network voters currently rate it number 9 rated anime and number 7 most popular anime. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/ratings-anime.php Citable, quantitative... Should easily fit into reception and fandom, no? Lord Stu 21:07, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, however, I assume the ratings chart changes every so often...? That means the source wouldn't convey the same information if checked upon by someone at a latter time due to shifts. It's not permanent.Fox816 23:36, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd like to add that Anime News Networks system for rating shows tends to favour newer works over older one's and from a purely western perspective. It's ranking chart places a very heavy weight on the number of votes as a ratio to the scoring those votes give.  As a result a show can easily be ranked Number 1 for an entire day by having a certain perfect ratio, but then vanish from the list the next and drop several 100 ranks.  In this case I would use it in a debate, but back it up with something more qualitative, like what specific fans have had to say about it.  Also look at the details of such a qualitative review and check for bias.  I frequent a lot of anime forums and a lot of the people in them when discussing anime quality tend to give special favour to works by certain studios, directors or one's with certain voice actors in them.  It should be obvious though if there is any bias, but try to go with the words of older anime fans, they will likely have more experience and thus be a more trustworthy source on quality.  Hope this helps. Kaioshin Sama (talk) 00:23, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Dance section?
The dance from the ending credits of the show is rather popular in many parts of Japan and America, and it's not uncommon to see people dancing it (or to find videos on YouTube of people dancing it). This is something that I've never seen for various other anime, and I think there should a section added to the article about it. I mention this because I've actually never seen the anime, but I'm extremely familiar with the dance simply through exposure, and it seems strange that the article doesn't mention it. --Egocentrism04 23:23, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The main reason it isn't mentioned is that its popularity can only be cited via youtube, or blogging sites, which should not be present in a Good Article. And besides, there's an image of cosplayers at AX doing the dance, and it's noted in the fandom section near the photo.--  十  八  23:35, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

2nd season
can someone tell me when does the season two comes out? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.146.88.154 (talk • contribs)
 * It hasn't been confirmed yet.--  十  八  08:24, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

the season or the date —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.146.98.189 (talk) 02:37, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The date. The second season was confirmed a long time ago.--  十  八  06:51, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

ok thankies —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.146.98.189 (talk) 01:18, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

What event in Japan will likely give the official date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.4.204.47 (talk) 04:02, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Either via an announcement by KyoAni via www.haruhi.tv, or through a magazine.--  十  八  07:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Awards
The show got some more awards from Anime News Network... Maybe some of the primary contributors should go over their article and see what can be included here? --Koveras ☭ 08:44, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Spoiler
Isn't stating on beggining about "girl who, unbeknownst to her, possesses the power to change reality" a spoiler in itself? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Madcio (talk • contribs) 23:08, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It supplies context for the entire series and is a nice way to sum up the premise of the series, and besides, I think thare are much larger spoilers out there that don't have such heavy bearing on describing the premise in one sentence.--  十  八  23:46, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's a spoiler, but Wikipedia is not generally spoiler-free (WP:SPOILER), it doesn't get into details, and it's a wonderfully concise exposition of the premise. Dcoetzee 17:59, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Theme Section
A theme section should be added. Unfortunately I had to revert a user's contribution to adding one since it was primarily original research with no references backing. However, a theme section is still something nice to put in and can help advance the article. A good example for designing and writing one would be to look at the Lain article which is fairly well written and has already achieved FA status. The only problem for us is getting official translated materials...which has always been a thorn in the side sadly. Fox816 (talk) 19:27, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we can recruit help from the talk page of the Japanese version of this article? Dcoetzee 18:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Being Naive about Episode Order
Did anyone ever notice how, in this anime, the hero and heroine are constantly arguing?

Haruhi yells at Kyon, telling him he's late, or that he's making too much noise, or not doing what he was told, or making him go out and get a heater because she's cold. Then Kyon rolls his eyes, sighs, shakes his head, mumbles that she's being impossible again, and generally acts like a long suffering husband. Tell me -- do you really believe that these two people could even begin to agree about the order of the episodes?

The whole point of the Haruhi and Kyon episode lists is NOT that one list is right and the other is wrong. The point is that they can't even agree about that. I know a couple who have arguments about when they got their cat -- she says it was before they got the new furnace; he says is was afterwards. And they bicker about it.

So don't suggest in this article that one of the two episode orders is right and the other is wrong or that the two orders were put in "... because the climax of the story, in chronological order, occurs barely halfway into the series, and thus causes the story to lose some dramatic effect" (note 3). Folks, you've missed the whole point. Instead, the point is that they're at it again, Kyon and Haruhi -- and we're not supposed to take either of them seriously. The different episode orders is part of the plot itself, or, more accurately, part of the characterization of the hero and heroine.

The upshot is that no one -- least of all the protagonists! -- knows the right order of the episodes. It's just one more of the really very clever plot devices in The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. And it has nothing at all to do with telling innocent and believing fans, like the authors of note 3, what the real order of the episodes was. It's part of the humor of the series.

Timothy Perper (talk) 16:52, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Suffice it to say that attempting to guess the intention of the producers in airing the episodes out of chronological order is original research. If we don't have an interview explaining, let's not try to explain it. Dcoetzee 17:01, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Really? The article already has a number of such guesses -- one of which I quoted. Did you read it? I'll quote it again, from note 3. The two orders were put in "... because the climax of the story, in chronological order, occurs barely halfway into the series, and thus causes the story to lose some dramatic effect" (note 3).


 * Where are your complaints about note 3, Dcoetzee?


 * Well, let's get that fixed. I put tag and  tags on Note 3. That might get the ball rolling about the issue.


 * Point 2 is that it is not against any principles of Wikipedia to discuss matters of interpretation on the talk page. That's what the talk page is for -- to discuss issues whose interpretation shapes what the article says. And this is one such issue. And I feel, as I said, that the unreferenced, unsourced interpretation in the article about episode order is naive and is contradicted by the content of the series itself.


 * Timothy Perper (talk) 22:39, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment by TP How to fix this: remove the last sentence of Note 3 and add a citation. I'll wait a few days for comments and then remove the sentence and the OR tag myself if there are no objections.Timothy Perper (talk) 22:56, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree - I wasn't very clear. I don't think the article should offer any interpretation of why the episodes were not aired in chronological order, unless one has been explicitly given by the production staff. I think the current explanation should be removed. Dcoetzee 00:21, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


 * It looks like it was claimed as a reference than a note and made a claim without sourcing. I've already removed it. The Haruhi/Kyon order is mentioned in the Episode Section - though the "correctness" of either is left out since it's only speculation. Thanks for catching that small bit...just next time you don't have to write too much about it you know. To save time, patience, and more importantly possible misunderstandings, a simple - hey this one doesn't sound right. It's definately original research without any sources - or something along those lines would really suffice. Either way, nice catch. Fox816 (talk) 03:35, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, guys. Looks like we're all on the same wavelength here! Timothy Perper (talk) 05:41, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Neon Genesis Evangelion Tributes?

 * This may just be speculation on my part but a good bit of actions taken by Kyon, Mikuru and Yuki's personality be tributes to Rei , Asuka and Shinji (Like in the movie when Kyon was scripted *I think* to kiss Mikuru in her sleep or unconscious state and Yuki having a good bit of similarities with Rei's personality and loyalty.) 69.86.55.235 (talk) 02:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC)


 * It's just coincidental I'd say. The character types for the Brigade are very...cliche so to speak but the series is executed in such a manner that it doesn't really matter. Unless there's credible backing towards possible influences on personalities or character drawups from Evangelion in the form of reliable sources (e.g. interview with the director, creator, character designer, etc...) then it's just speculation. Fox816 (talk) 03:11, 31 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Although there are some similarities, I believe there are too many significant differences between the character personalities. There are many similar characters in other anime as well. Highwind888 (talk) 04:28, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Genres
I've recently created Category:Comedy-drama anime and manga. Would it be okay to add this series to said category?--Nohansen (talk) 21:17, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't call Haruhi a drama at all. Apart from a couple episodes, it really has no notable drama to speak of.--  十  八  21:28, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I think it's a drama. If scrubs is considered a drama then so is haruhi!--208.71.219.140 (talk) 05:39, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The genres have to be large attributes of the media in question, and as I said, Haruhi is not drama-centric at all.--  十  八  08:45, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Picture
Could we use a picture of the characters that includes the boys? Brutannica (talk) 22:34, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The picture we have now is suitable. Majority of the dance is performed by the girls, and the later scenes when Kyon and Itsuki enter don't allow for such a good closeup shot. Plus, I find the stance of the picture fairly characteristic of the series and befitting for the article. Fox816 (talk) 01:48, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Haruhi dance
Should there be mention of the Haruhi dance craze (and Kyoto Animation's 1 minute and 3 minute dance versions...)? 132.205.44.134 22:53, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Probably not. In relation to the work as a whole, it's rather trivial.--SeizureDog 23:13, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a real world manifestation of the popularity of the TV anime. You don't really see stuff like this for any anime. 132.205.44.134 01:04, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The Evangelion opening for Kodocha? --Wirbelwind ヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 05:07, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * We already mentioned about the ED dance in the list of Haruhi CD's that were produced. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 05:13, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The ED dance is related to the TV show, and not the CDs. 132.205.44.134 23:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it's relevant as per this link: http://animenarutard.blogspot.com/2007/06/melancholy-of-haruhi-suzumiya.html
 * There has been a fan versions, public street dances and even a megaman version??. Megaman, that has to be worth something ;) No but seriously I found this interesting, as was said above, "It's a real world manifestation of the popularity of the TV anime. You don't really see stuff like this for any anime." Id agree with that. --Evolve2k 12:23, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's irrelevant now. This is a page about the book. It'd be more relevant in the anime section. We just changed around the entire pages about a month ago.Sbloemeke 22:18, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Proposed move
Since this article's scope is strickly under The Melancholy, i.e. the first novel in the series and its many adaptations, I propose that elements of the article that do not strickly pertain to The Melancholy be moved to Haruhi Suzumiya (light novels) where the information pertains to all the novels, and not just the first one. Sections that would apply to this would be the SOS Brigade and Affiliations.-- 十  八  00:15, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I've always thought that the organization of this article was a bit confused (and confusing). I was under the impression that this article was primarily about the anime and the novel of the same name, while the novels in general were in their own article already.... Mekryd 13:43, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The anime covers book 1 and briefly touches up on Books 2 and 3. KyuuA4 07:59, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The anime covers all of volume one as well as three short stories from volume three(Boredom, Mysterique Sign, Lone Island Syndrome), one short story from volume five(The Day of Sagittarius), and two short stories from volume six(Live A Live, Asahina Mikuru's Adventure). The anime doesn't directly cover any of volume two. Just to make things clear.GreatGlistener 01:36, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * In the Light Novel page, there's actually discussion about merging that article with this one. And as far as Book 1's content... um yea.  They're rather mixed into this article, aren't they?  I was proposing using this article as the main article to the Haruhi series - both anime and light novel.  To be included are the "Who's who", descriptions character groups involved (like the Agency), Settings, media information (games, music, etc.), and fan reception.  As for Plot information, might as well bring that stuff over to the novels. KyuuA4 08:09, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, and oddly enough. We're generally stuck with the standardized naming system regarding anime, huh?  I had a short consideration for renaming this article to Haruhi Suzumiya series.  I doubt that would work though. KyuuA4 08:11, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Crazy long intro
Okay, this has been getting to me for a while, but I sort of forgot about it until looking at it again recently. The article's introduction is, as the topic implies, crazy long. Most of it is repeating information that is given later in specific sections, and seems to go into too much detail to be considered an overview (I'm looking at the second and third paragraphs, here. And, really, anything after the first paragraph). If this stuff really needs to be in the intro, I could shorten it into one or two paragraphs... Mekryd 13:51, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Isn't this the exact sort of thing WP:INTRO encourages? --Gwern (contribs) 17:07 7 May 2007 (GMT)


 * You seem to have linked the introduction to Wikipedia, not a policy page. Or something.  I'm not quite sure.  Either way, did you mean that the page encouraged long intros or what I was thinking of doing? Mekryd 20:36, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe Gwern meant to link WP:LEAD. Either way, this is classified as a large article and has over 30,000 characters, so the lead should be 3-4 paragraphs in length. It is currently five, but if you want to shorten it down to three while avoiding redundancy then by all means.-- 十  八  23:25, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I meant LEAD. I'm a little surprised that INTRO didn't link there, though. --Gwern (contribs) 23:57 7 May 2007 (GMT)

Wikiproject?
I made a proposal to make Haruhi into a wikiproject at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Haruhi_Suzumiya If you think you would be interested in it, or if you think it could be a good idea, please sign up. I'm just trying to get an early estimate to see if it stands a chance. (Just FYI, I put this notice in the main page and this one, the most popular ones)Sbloemeke 22:41, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I think a project would be a good idea...but you typo'd Suzumiya, I fixed it for you. Hope you don't mind. -Sukecchi 23:02, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, then it must be typoed somewhere else, as I copied and pasted it. Well, welcome aboard, I hope! :)Sbloemeke 23:08, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm still trying to figure out how to tag article talk pages so as to include a redirect to it.
 * Check the talk page (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Haruhi Suzumiya), see if that's what you're after. I have the altered version sitting in my userspace and can copy it over to the main banner whenever. --tjstrf talk 21:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Genre Confusion?
This manga is classified as Seinen in the article, but is listed as both Shounen and Seinen in their respective articles. It is out of alphabetical order in the Seinen article, however, placed just below Sketchbook. Should this manga be classified both as shounen and seinen, or should it be removed from the shounen list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Relambrien (talk • contribs)


 * New comments at the bottom, sign comments with four tildies, please.
 * My bad, it was late at night and I ended up thinking I put it at the bottom and signed it when it turns out I didn't. Perhaps I shouldn't look at Wikipedia at 1 AM anymore. Relambrien 00:13, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Shonen and Seinen are not genres, but demographics. The manga runs in a shonen magazine, while the novels are in a magazine that sells to an older audience. I'm of the opinion that all of these words do not apply to light novels at all, but Western fans tend to like to apply them even when they aren't used by Japanese speakers. Doceirias 07:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It appears I confused the terms in my tired state, sorry about that. Considering what you said, should the demographic part be taken out of the article entirely? Relambrien 00:13, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That would probably just lead to edit warring. There are a few editors who reeeeally like those terms and can't be convinced they don't apply. I'd stick with seinen rather than shonen, since the novels are the original work here. Doceirias 00:49, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Music
I think the classical parts should be mentioned.

Rather said...I want to know which parts they are, there is no info to be found anywhere...
 * That information is already found at The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (anime).--  十  八  20:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Haruhi dance
Should there be mention of the Haruhi dance craze (and Kyoto Animation's 1 minute and 3 minute dance versions...)? 132.205.44.134 22:53, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Probably not. In relation to the work as a whole, it's rather trivial.--SeizureDog 23:13, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a real world manifestation of the popularity of the TV anime. You don't really see stuff like this for any anime. 132.205.44.134 01:04, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The Evangelion opening for Kodocha? --Wirbelwind ヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 05:07, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * We already mentioned about the ED dance in the list of Haruhi CD's that were produced. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 05:13, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The ED dance is related to the TV show, and not the CDs. 132.205.44.134 23:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it's relevant as per this link: http://animenarutard.blogspot.com/2007/06/melancholy-of-haruhi-suzumiya.html
 * There has been a fan versions, public street dances and even a megaman version??. Megaman, that has to be worth something ;) No but seriously I found this interesting, as was said above, "It's a real world manifestation of the popularity of the TV anime. You don't really see stuff like this for any anime." Id agree with that. --Evolve2k 12:23, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's irrelevant now. This is a page about the book. It'd be more relevant in the anime section. We just changed around the entire pages about a month ago.Sbloemeke 22:18, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Proposed move
Since this article's scope is strickly under The Melancholy, i.e. the first novel in the series and its many adaptations, I propose that elements of the article that do not strickly pertain to The Melancholy be moved to Haruhi Suzumiya (light novels) where the information pertains to all the novels, and not just the first one. Sections that would apply to this would be the SOS Brigade and Affiliations.-- 十  八  00:15, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I've always thought that the organization of this article was a bit confused (and confusing). I was under the impression that this article was primarily about the anime and the novel of the same name, while the novels in general were in their own article already.... Mekryd 13:43, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The anime covers book 1 and briefly touches up on Books 2 and 3. KyuuA4 07:59, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The anime covers all of volume one as well as three short stories from volume three(Boredom, Mysterique Sign, Lone Island Syndrome), one short story from volume five(The Day of Sagittarius), and two short stories from volume six(Live A Live, Asahina Mikuru's Adventure). The anime doesn't directly cover any of volume two. Just to make things clear.GreatGlistener 01:36, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * In the Light Novel page, there's actually discussion about merging that article with this one. And as far as Book 1's content... um yea.  They're rather mixed into this article, aren't they?  I was proposing using this article as the main article to the Haruhi series - both anime and light novel.  To be included are the "Who's who", descriptions character groups involved (like the Agency), Settings, media information (games, music, etc.), and fan reception.  As for Plot information, might as well bring that stuff over to the novels. KyuuA4 08:09, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, and oddly enough. We're generally stuck with the standardized naming system regarding anime, huh?  I had a short consideration for renaming this article to Haruhi Suzumiya series.  I doubt that would work though. KyuuA4 08:11, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Crazy long intro
Okay, this has been getting to me for a while, but I sort of forgot about it until looking at it again recently. The article's introduction is, as the topic implies, crazy long. Most of it is repeating information that is given later in specific sections, and seems to go into too much detail to be considered an overview (I'm looking at the second and third paragraphs, here. And, really, anything after the first paragraph). If this stuff really needs to be in the intro, I could shorten it into one or two paragraphs... Mekryd 13:51, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Isn't this the exact sort of thing WP:INTRO encourages? --Gwern (contribs) 17:07 7 May 2007 (GMT)


 * You seem to have linked the introduction to Wikipedia, not a policy page. Or something.  I'm not quite sure.  Either way, did you mean that the page encouraged long intros or what I was thinking of doing? Mekryd 20:36, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe Gwern meant to link WP:LEAD. Either way, this is classified as a large article and has over 30,000 characters, so the lead should be 3-4 paragraphs in length. It is currently five, but if you want to shorten it down to three while avoiding redundancy then by all means.-- 十  八  23:25, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I meant LEAD. I'm a little surprised that INTRO didn't link there, though. --Gwern (contribs) 23:57 7 May 2007 (GMT)

Wikiproject?
I made a proposal to make Haruhi into a wikiproject at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Haruhi_Suzumiya If you think you would be interested in it, or if you think it could be a good idea, please sign up. I'm just trying to get an early estimate to see if it stands a chance. (Just FYI, I put this notice in the main page and this one, the most popular ones)Sbloemeke 22:41, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I think a project would be a good idea...but you typo'd Suzumiya, I fixed it for you. Hope you don't mind. -Sukecchi 23:02, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, then it must be typoed somewhere else, as I copied and pasted it. Well, welcome aboard, I hope! :)Sbloemeke 23:08, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm still trying to figure out how to tag article talk pages so as to include a redirect to it.
 * Check the talk page (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Haruhi Suzumiya), see if that's what you're after. I have the altered version sitting in my userspace and can copy it over to the main banner whenever. --tjstrf talk 21:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Genre Confusion?
This manga is classified as Seinen in the article, but is listed as both Shounen and Seinen in their respective articles. It is out of alphabetical order in the Seinen article, however, placed just below Sketchbook. Should this manga be classified both as shounen and seinen, or should it be removed from the shounen list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Relambrien (talk • contribs)


 * New comments at the bottom, sign comments with four tildies, please.
 * My bad, it was late at night and I ended up thinking I put it at the bottom and signed it when it turns out I didn't. Perhaps I shouldn't look at Wikipedia at 1 AM anymore. Relambrien 00:13, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Shonen and Seinen are not genres, but demographics. The manga runs in a shonen magazine, while the novels are in a magazine that sells to an older audience. I'm of the opinion that all of these words do not apply to light novels at all, but Western fans tend to like to apply them even when they aren't used by Japanese speakers. Doceirias 07:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It appears I confused the terms in my tired state, sorry about that. Considering what you said, should the demographic part be taken out of the article entirely? Relambrien 00:13, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That would probably just lead to edit warring. There are a few editors who reeeeally like those terms and can't be convinced they don't apply. I'd stick with seinen rather than shonen, since the novels are the original work here. Doceirias 00:49, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Music
I think the classical parts should be mentioned.

Rather said...I want to know which parts they are, there is no info to be found anywhere...
 * That information is already found at The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (anime).--  十  八  20:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Awesome! thx a lot i knew it must have been tchaikovsky

Awesome! thx a lot i knew it must have been tchaikovsky

No second season?
I wouldn't know how to go about explaining this, so just read http://zepy.momotato.com/2008/06/06/suzumiya-haruhi-no-yuutsu-new-animation/ ... - .:. Jigsy .:. (talk) 23:55, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I saw that, too. Apparently, Kyoani "canceled" the planned "2nd season" and decided to go another route. If this is true, the "second season" section may (make that, will) need updating.--Nohansen (talk) 00:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * We should address it as a new season, not a second which is misleading as it implies a direct continuation. It would be very helpful if anyone can read and translate what it says in the images as we already have the basic overview. Fox816 (talk) 00:56, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * AnimeNation reported it, too. http://www.animenation.net/blog/2008/06/09/new-detail-on-second-suzumiya-haruhi-anime/. It seems it's not even a new season, "but rather an entirely new series that disregards the earlier anime".--Nohansen (talk) 16:44, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * *COUGH* That AnimeNation news posting is refrencing the Canned Dogs article at the start of this section - this is more like rumors validating each other. If you read the comments it is stated that this was announced back in December during the website "dissapearing" event, so nothing has actually changed since then. What I believe you're seeing is overreaction/misinterpretation by people who never read the novels. The studio is clarifying that the anime's second season will not follow the first season storywise, which is saying surprisingly little about a series that does not run in chronological order to begin with. ;-)


 * If the second season of the anime is based on the plot of the 4th novel, as we have been beleiveing up to this point, it will not be following the first season story-wise, just as KyoAni said. Also, if you look at those pictures from that issue of NewType, Haruhi has longer hair and is wearing a different uniform, just as she does in the 4th novel. In other words, nothing has happended in the last six weeks, nay the last six months, to change what the next season of the anime is going to be --SeaFox (talk) 02:36, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Good, you scared my cock off there. 90.194.68.85 (talk) 19:30, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * So this could be a hoax by KyoAni then? - .:. Jigsy .:. (talk) 22:43, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * What hoax? They just changed the name from second season to new season.--  十  八  23:59, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * No, that's exactly what it looks like to me. It's a hoax to hype the new season because of the long lead time between the first and second season. KyoAni is worried about people forgetting about this series because of that gap. It's comparable to the gap between the first and second seasons of Code Geass, and I've heard Code Geass R2 isn't doing nearly as well in the ratings as the first season, but I think that's due to the timeslot change more than anything. --SeaFox (talk) 02:00, 22 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Code Geass is a poor example. The first season aired between October 2006 to March 2007 (then two episodes in July); the second season started about a year after the first ended last April. Haruhi, on the other hand, ran between April and June 2006, and here we are, two years later, and still no second season, so it's a much longer wait. And on top of that, I don't believe KyoAni has to worry one bit about people forgetting about probably one of, if not the, most popular anime series of the past five years. KyoAni has just been craftily employing viral marketing, just as they did during the first season, and after it to hype the second. The word 'hoax' doesn't exactly apply, since we're getting a new anime season either way, so even though KyoAni might be doing this as another viral marketing ploy, it really doesn't matter either way.--  十  八  02:14, 22 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Code Geass R2 is just poor, period. I suspect that's a major reason why it's doing poorly in ratings; you don't have to look beyond the null hypothesis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.202.37.181 (talk) 00:07, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, that was a very argumented opinion. DarkoNeko x 17:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

New Season Info maybe?
I found this wierd video on youtube and it matches The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya. Also the script I found it on the commentary of the comment Here is the link

Also I noticed in Jigsy link that the pics show mikuru and yuki in christmas hats and that the haruhi website shows 2008 and 2009 which could lead for the release to be late 2008 to early 2009. The last thing I noiced is that Bamboo Rhapsody chapter was released two days after Christmas and in the season 2 preview it showed Haruhi and Kyon drawing on the blacktop with chalk (you won't understand what I said until after you read the Light Novels. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.239.69.116 (talk) 03:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Return to GA
Moved from Talk:The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (anime)/GAR 1

If I knew what you were talking about, I would help (I'm kind of a new editor on Wiki...). And I want to help. So, can you maybe put a list of items that need to be changed in order for it to be bumped back up to GA standard? (And what's GA???) Thanks in advance. Talk2chun (talk) 13:03, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Read Good articles 211.30.111.105 (talk) 13:37, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

December 18
The site updated again. It seems to be suggesting that an anime will be adapted from Haruhi-chan and Churuya-san, the manga and anime shorts that were on YouTube (which explains Haruhi coming out of a YouTube video). However, I'm not sure what the rest says--whether this is a separate series, or replacing Shoushitsu, or supplementing Shoushitsu somehow. Can someone take a look? 71.48.54.179 (talk) 19:59, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It seems to just be a separate mini-series of sorts, and most of the info given is for the staff and cast. There's no mention of the new anime season.--  十  八  01:13, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Cult status?
This is not a cult series. Cult anime would be things like Akira, Neon Genesis Evangelion, or Hayao Miyazaki films. It's popularity comes mainly from the dance choreography of the ending theme. It is just another anime series. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.242.197.200 (talk) 23:22, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
 * ...mainly from the dance choreography of the ending theme. I think you have to give more credit to this series than a measly ED video sequence, and besides, that's just your opinion.--  十  八  05:19, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * To call it "cult television" is also just an opinion. To quote the article:
 * "As of December 2006, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is the most popular anime in Japan according to Newtype magazine."
 * Most popular? That would be mainstream. NOT cult.
 * --99.242.197.200 (talk) 15:02, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Using your own examples, wasn't Akira and Eva also very popular? I don't see why Haruhi doesn't have a certain cult following.--  十  八  22:51, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Of course a cult claim needs a citation. I am marking it as unreferenced, and if no citation is provided, the claim needs to go. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:05, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

=Main archive=

Charecters?
I suppose that now this is created and the basics are done, we can go into smaller details. With a franchise article, I saw another one at Sailor Moon. In there, they have a small caption for each of the main charecters, in this case we would have 5. Would we want to consider adding one in, or no? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sbloemeke (talk • contribs)
 * Yeah, I suppose we could do that. How about transcluding the SOS Brigade section from List of characters in the Haruhi Suzumiya series and we could expand them a bit if needed.--  十  八  01:35, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Do we transcribe them or cut them out of the list and put them in here? It would change the list into a list of secondary charecters.Sbloemeke 01:46, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep the list in the characters article and just transcribe it.--  十  八  02:18, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sbloemeke (talk • contribs)

GA Workings...
So, I did a little research into other Good Articles of franchises, and here is what I found. First off, we need a section entitled "Plot". It just is for the basic overview of everything, basically the concepts of the story. In this case it would be that the story is about five kids who create a club centered around Haruhi which is also host to a meriad of people such as Time Travelers, Aliens, and Espers. This should not get into the specifics (SPOILER: Something like Asakura Ryouko tries to kill Kyon is NOT what needs to be in.) Individual plot elements are too specific.

I also noticed that absolutely no article has what we have, which is the series concepts. For instance, Kanon has no section devoted on Fox-Humans, and Sailor Moon has no sections on any of the antagonistic societies not of the inner scouts/outer scouts/starlights. Each of those is also an organization.

Most GA level articles seemed to have 3 main section. Plot, Charecters, and Adaptations. They also all seemed to have a very sizable lead. So, my opinion is that to make it into a GA article, that is what we need to do. What are your opinions on this? Sbloemeke 19:41, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree that an overview of the plot is needed and would be right for inclusion. As for the series concepts, I believe those have to stay. The Kanon and Sailor Moon articles you mentioned are very broad in their scope, so they are best kept focused on the main material without going into unnecessary details (I believe this is a criterian of GA/FA articles). This article is about the specific Haruhi Suzumiya franchise, and those details cannot rightfully go anywhere else. The only other alternative would be to delete them, but then other series like Naruto and Bleach have entire articles on the ninja villages, and Soul Society which are relevevnt to the series themselves. The series concepts in this article are not large enough for their own article, so they are kept here. I suppose we could create a Series concepts in the Haruhi Suzumiya series if needed, but I would be against that for right now.--  十  八  22:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * What about Organizations of Haruhi Suzumiya? Technically, each entity could work as stand alone articles, but that would require a ton of work on all of our parts.
 * In my opinion, the organization would best work as Lead, Plot Overview, Charecters, Novels/Adaptations. This would allow a general introduction, quick knowledge of what the series is, details on the players, and then showing how it's been distributed. To me, it's the most logical flow.
 * The organizations just don't seem to fit in here. I guess the best thing to do is leave it in here for now, fix it up with plot/organization, put it up for GA, and if it fails, ask the reviewer if he thinks that section is helping or hindering the cause. Sbloemeke 00:09, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Organizations in the Haruhi Suzumiya series I think would be a better title, but that could work; the only probably would be the references, though I guess we could get a fair amount from the anime/novels if absolutely necessary. As for a new Characters section, just how indepth do you plan on doing this if we already have a main article for the characters? Do you mean just adding in the info to the SOS Brigade members (with a link to the main character article) or do you also wish to add in some of the other characters like Ryoko or Kyon's Sister? And on top of that, we could do something along the lines of what they have at Excel Saga with Plot and characters in one section.--  十  八  00:22, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Nope. I mean that I think the present "SOS Brigade Members" should be a section, the individual summaries expanded a bit, and maybe a picture for them. Their names would be linked to their article. We also have a linking to the charecter list. I know Excel Saga did the Plot and charecters in one section, but I personally prefer them seperate. It'll all depend on what the GA reviewer wants. The affiliations part (Which is what is proposed for a move), would probably be word for word exactly what is in here, and graded as a Start Class article, as it has no references. It would go next to "Light Novels" in the top level. I think that just by removing them we can better this article.Sbloemeke 18:04, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me then.--  十  八  06:19, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Before I go and do anything, though, I want to know exactly what the plot section would look like. Would you like me to write it, or would you like to try your hands on it?Sbloemeke 02:17, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * If you've read into the novels, you probably have a better idea of what the plot overview is meant to contain. My knowledge is only as far as The Melancholy is concerned.--  十  八  02:20, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The present plan is fine for a GA, but as one of the primary goals of WP:HARUHI is to get this article featured, we need a story/plot section that includes characters, plot, and themes present in the series. Some type of development/production/etc section needs to be present, and should display the transition between light novels and anime production. A broader reception section needs to be there, but it's less of an issue seeing as the majority of the content is present at The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (anime). Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 05:47, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I know. But it should be a GA before we can get to FA. Anyways, sorry for the delay, job has been interfering. I'll do the edits on Saturday.Sbloemeke 01:04, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Official English translations?
I'm pretty sure they translated Yuki Nagato's organization as the "Data Integration Thought Entity." Can anyone check to make sure?

Also, it says in the article that she is a Data Entity. I don't think she herself is the entity... so for now, I'm changing it to "humanoid interface created by the Data Integration Thought Entity." 74.116.137.2 17:34, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

SOSdan
Just as a side note, did the fan translation sited in the SOS Brigade section, as "Save the world by Overloading it with fun, Suzumiya Haruhi's brigade", come from A.F.K.'s sub? Luigi6138 23:23, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It says "fan translations generally accepted" that translation, but since afk was the first to provide an accurate translation that was wide-spread among the anime community at the time, it probably has a root from afk's original translation.--  十  八  23:48, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Out of Topic?
Suggestion: I suggest that all general information regarding the Suzumiya Haruhi series, novel, plot, etc. except for the topics regarding franchises, be summarized, if not removed. I believe that there are already entries for the plot of the story. It will just make a redundant encyclopedia entry. Links must be provided to the general information about the series, but not the whole article/information. I hope that this will improve the quality of this entry. Vekou 12:07, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Cutting the Infobox?
Since this is a franchise page, the infobox can be reduced to the size similar the Gundam franchise page. It is imaginable for that infobox to stretch the entire article (and more) if the Gundam series included all of its works into a single compounded infobox. For this series, infobox subsections, found in their own articles such as the anime and light novel series, can be removed. Yet, objection can stem from lack of a manga and video game sub-article for the franchise. So, this is something to think about later on. KyuuA4 (talk) 17:40, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Games
"Namco Bandai Games has announced that another adventure game, The Promise of Haruhi Suzumiya (涼宮ハルヒの約束, Suzumiya Haruhi no Yakusoku?),[10] was released for the PlayStation Portable on December 20, 2007. " So, they announced that the game was released a month ago....someone wanna fix the english here? 68.8.219.56 (talk) 09:45, 11 February 2008 (UTC)jopojelly
 * For future instances, please Be Bold and update any entries that need updating, thank you.--  十  八  10:22, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I kinda messed that up there trying to bring the statement to current standards. --Addict 2006 23:18, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Probably unnecessary "the"
"Spreading Excitement All Over the World with the Haruhi Suzumiya Brigade" - I'm not sure that the "the" before the titular character's name should be there, and I don't think asosbrigade.com has been updated for quite a while now (most of the pages aren't there and I can't use Wayback Machine on the pages archived and find something out of those). I have watched the ASOS Brigade miniseries as well as the dub of broadcast-episode-2/chronological-episode-1 but I don't think that's enough of a citation. --Addict 2006 23:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It's grammatically necessary. Doceirias (talk) 02:48, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Question
Here is a section from Haruhi_Suzumiya_%28franchise%29 "Sealed Realities" or "Closed Spaces" are odd occurrences in the cross-dimensional faultlines catalyzed by Haruhi Suzumiya when she is antagonized as a sort of practice round for her godly powers. The world within the Sealed Reality is almost identical to a corresponding area of the world, but is colored in grey tones completely and devoid of people.... What is a "grey tone"? I find no other mention of it anywhere... I am curious, but also, it may need to be defined for better encyclopedic quality --LiteralKa (talk) 16:39, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Grey tone as in there is little or no colour, and consisting mainly of shades of grey. Not sure if that was your question... :P --nyoro~! Highwind888 (talk) 01:28, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh, I was wondering if it was referring to the color of the closed space, or the fact that it is completely devoid of life and motion. LiteralKa (talk) 00:46, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm... Ok, I kinda get your question. I think its more a combination - the colour scheme and also the gloomy feel of the closed space.  Similar to when movies depict a sad scene with very cloudy weather, raining, and everything is grey and such. Can't really describe it very well, but its the feel you get when looking at such a scene. --nyoro~! Highwind888 (talk) 03:29, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

haruhi Wii game title citation
All I can find are blogs. --Addict 2006 19:03, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You really should Google the original Japanese title, and not the unofficial translation...The name is given at the game's official website.--  十  八  23:51, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Haruhi book 01 s.jpg
The image Image:Haruhi book 01 s.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --11:25, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * At this time, I'm solving the problem. --Addict 2006 15:47, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Solved. --Addict 2006 15:57, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Date listed on an official website
What's March 26, 2009 about (here)? --Addict 2006 16:02, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Seems to be the release date for the Wii game.--  十  八  04:55, 30 December 2008 (UTC)