Talk:The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (novel)/Archive 1

Editing
This article is currently undergoing a large amount of editing. Please take care not to stomp on someone else's work. Thanks! --Cortana 22:36, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Someone please just remember to change the names to family name last--141.150.47.188 23:05, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Done Cortana 23:10, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Edited most of the layout, and reorganised sections. More information needed, but it's starting to become passable. --Nihon? 23:07, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Trivia
hey, you think i can add a trivia section?

The anime already had references to the involvment of the seyu who have starred in the previous anime series and had a cameo appearance in episode 02.

what you lot think? --Onizuka-gto 03:13, 15 April 2006 (UTC)


 * What previous anime series? There's not a precursor series to Haruhi as far as I know. We also want to keep the article encyclopedic and not turn it into a mish-mash of a bunch of random stuff. Cortana 12:19, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Trivia for episode 4
When Kyon takes over as pitcher, the BGM played is an homage to the theme to the Touch anime by Mitsuru Adachi. While not being the same score, it has the same structure and rhythm. Just thought I'd throw this up here for verification before editing the page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.197.4.189 (talk • contribs) 05:25, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Yuki Nagato's incantation
Yuki Nagato's "incantations" mostly consist of series of SQL statements, sped up and reversed.
 * Is there any proof that it is in reversed form (besides of fans speculation)? Even Kyon (as the narrator for both anime and novel series) can easily decypher it - http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Chapter5 Unsigned by: 218.111.217.254


 * That, my friend, is the book, not the anime. Mekryd 18:01, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Just because I am curious, how you can confirm these "incantations" are really SQL statements sped up and reversed? I am unable to reproduce audible voices after I captured and processes such "incantations" with your claims. --Leeyc0 12:17, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Here's a recording someone made of the incantations for Ryoko's termination, reversed, and slowed down to 1/10 speed: http://djbouche.net/yuki_rev_10.ogg. You can make out the words "select", "where", and "order" pretty clearly at least.  Have to take the accent, the audio warping, etc into account. Mekryd 17:04, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Trivia for Episode 8
The preview also parodied "Neon Genesis Evangelion"! "|_" style came from that anime.--Tumnaselda 15:23, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Large numbers and small numbers
I have added information for large numbers and small numbers (and Japenese Wikipedia) in Japanese langage, but I am not sure the exact ranges of the numbers shown in the opening as they are moving too fast. Can someone help me to correct this? Leeyc0 13:39, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Mikuru Beam
Can people explain why they have to REMOVE information about the characters?

Someone removed the info about mikuru attack abilities, i might add it back again, but i don't want to provoke an edit war.

I think we should start discussion before any other major changes, other wise we will have more people stepping over everyones else's contribution, such as the rearranging of the seiyuu/characters edit.

Onizuka-gto 17:10, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Why should we have to discuss the removal of information that is obviously wrong? Omgwtflolz 04:48, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

And before you start to argue, 涼宮ハルヒの溜息, pages 141-142. 「これは朝比奈さんに元から備わっていた機能なのでしょうか？」「ない」　「これは涼宮さんの仕業ですね. 彼女がミクルビームがあって欲しいと思ったから、現実がそのように変化したと、そういうことです」「そう」Omgwtflolz 05:03, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Obviously wrong?
What is obviously wrong?

You say "obviously" this implies you know which is correct, and since you have pasted some japanese text, i assume you have a command of the language and thus i can assume you have read the novel.

Then i ask you, instead of removing information regarding specifics of the characters perhaps you can add?

I know that Yuki has some sort of power to take over other entities but that is only a speculation, mikuru has a condense photon laser in her left eye, which has been proven in the animation, Yet you removed that line of information.

If you can prove me wrong on any of the known abilities of the characters then go ahead.

As for the rearrangments of the layout, I think it was fine the first time it was done, specificially placing the seiyuu information with the characters, then it was edited so thatthe seiyuu had it's own section, and that looked ok. But then it's been put back to the beginning. *sigh*

really, either we make up our minds and leave it, or don't touch it at all. I don't think the page need any more MAJOR edits to the layout of the page.

Onizuka-gto 12:06, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

>"mikuru has a condense photon laser in her left eye, which has been proven in the animation, Yet you removed that line of information." ...because it's obviously wrong, as she doesn't. "Proven in the animation" indeed. Omgwtflolz 01:28, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

The 'photon laser' was part of a film, and thus, 'Special Effects', if you like. It doesn't belong in the wiki. --Nihon? 09:41, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

movie special effect?
Movie special effect?

oh, how you people amuse me so.

I guess that Itsuki doesn't have powers and that little scene at the end of the first episode is just special movie effect.

I can see why you would think Mikuru has no powers, i mean she can shoot out the camera with her eye, but oh wait, she can also shoot out 80's style purple lightenings too! (Sarcasitic)

I will not judge your intelligence, but i think you can tell the difference between the "movie effect" of the first episode and the authentic display of power the characters exhibit.

So I ask you this, how can I not listing the battle abilities of Mikuru, and how does this not "belong in Wiki"? is it not information? Does it not contribute to the page as well?

Onizuka-gto 11:57, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

How about providing a source, as opposed to making claims? --Nihon? 13:00, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

>"I can see why you would think Mikuru has no powers, i mean she can shoot out the camera with her eye" Riiiiiiiight. And just when did she shoot out the camera? Oh, right, never. That bit where the screen went black? That's Yuki's hand covering the lens. Look, I already quoted the damned book on the subject. Once again. 涼宮ハルヒの溜息, pages 141-142. 「これは朝比奈さんに元から備わっていた機能なのでしょうか？」'''「ない」「これは涼宮さんの仕業ですね. 彼女がミクルビームがあって欲しいと思ったから、現実がそのように変化したと、そういうことです」「そう」'''. It's also clearly stated (several times, even?) that Mikuru is a normal human with no powers at all. I'm pretty sure that the books are a better source of information on this than some random person who hasn't even read them.Omgwtflolz 15:03, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Quoting the Original text has no meaning
...because I can't read Japanese, so please it won't make any difference to the discussion.

On the other hand as Nihon? mentioned, evidence is required to support my point, and i point to the incident in the first episode.

Although as you stated, Mikuru did not shoot out the "camera" it did damage the lens of it. If this happened in the novel or manga i do not know, but it happened in the Anime and this page concern all three versions of it.

This is a valid claim, and all you have done to explain the reason why this is not true, is to reply in a patronize manner and to paste some text that I and the majority of English Wiki readers of this article will not understand.

However, I have discuss this with other Haruhi fans and have been given this explaination:

"The laser in the movie was actually real, but it was not the doing of Mikuru. It was actually because Haruhi imagined that the contacts she wore on her left eye enabled a special move called the Mikuru beam, and it became reality. Haruhi's powers on the other hand..."

A plausible explaination and something I will conceed that my point was incorrect, so i will drop this matter once and for all.

It is disappointing that all i have recieved from this discussion were negative replies that can only be described as "arrogant" and "elitist". Something which no one has the right to exhibit here, or anywhere else.

Onizuka-gto 21:58, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

So, all we have in the end is speculation and conjecture. That does not belong in Wikipedia. When we have incontrovertible proof of this fact, then we can put it in. And can we keep the personal attacks out of this discussion please? --Nihon? 09:49, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

mind you, someone just pointed out to me that Mikuru cannot be technically called a "normal human", as normal humans do not have a time travel device stuck in their heads.



Onizuka-gto 16:55, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Great point, that. One problem, though. It is stated in the books that she is a normal human. And that "explaination" you have is wrong too. Very nice how your argument is basically "I can't read the original text and have no idea what is going on, and thus I am right because I can understand my sources, which are statements from random people!". Anyway, I would like to ask you to refrain from adding your absurd conjectures to the article. It's supposed to be a repository of facts, not of wild assumptions and inaccurate "explainations" you found on the Animesuki message boards. Finally, please read Help:Talk page. Omgwtflolz 15:15, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The Adventures of Mikuru Asahina
According to this timeline, the making of The Adventures of Mikuru Asahina is in the novel The Agitation of Haruhi Suzumiya. An accurate translation of that would be very useful about now...

I agree the "beam weapon" theory is pure speculation and can't go in the wiki (yet), but there are at least three events in the first episode of the anime that are obviously not consistent with a low-budget amateur video:


 * (1) Itsuki's glowing psionic effect at the final confrontation.


 * (2) The cat named Shamisen speaking fluent Japanese while perched on Yuki's shoulder. (Yuki claims this was "ventriloquism," but I'm not convinced.)


 * (3) The bright flash from Mikuru's (temporarily discoloured) left eye in the first battle scene (and Yuki grappling with her - covering said eye - immediately afterwards.)

Itsuki is an esper, so the only mystery in (1) is why he would risk showing off his abilities on camera. As for (2), it looks like Shamisen can talk. Anyone know the reason for this?

Dismissing (3) as a deliberate special effect doesn't explain Yuki's reaction. I have two explanations that could fit:


 * (a) Haruhi inadvertently wished the power into existence during filming, or;


 * (b) Asahina Mikuru was armed with this weapon after the dangerous events in Mystérique Sign, and left the safety off on this occasion. Mystérique Sign was in the previous novel The Boredom of Haruhi Suzumiya, so this fits the timeline.

Can someone please provide translated extracts relevant to this?

Fluffy James 11:20, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Merge?
I propose this should be merged with Suzumiya Haruhi series. These two articles cover extremely similar ground, and would be better as one article. --Nihon? 21:21, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I oppose the merge. That other article covers the books, not the TV series. Omgwtflolz 05:12, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * In most articles, both the books and the animated series are usually together as one article --Nihon? 09:20, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * The characters change over the course of the series, and because the TV adaption probably won't cover all of it (I think I read somewhere that it'll go up to Shoushitsu), character profiles and so on that might be accurate when referring to the characters as they are in the adaption might not be when referring to the characters as they are in the books, as they do change over the course of the series. And of course, stuff that might be explained in the books might not be explained in the show, and I think it's very likely that that would result in more people like Onizuka-gto. Omgwtflolz 11:54, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I rather thought that we could have had both a novel and an anime section. We keep the information revealed in the books separate from the anime, but still in the same article.  It's rather confusing to have two articles on the same topic... --Nihon? 12:11, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Seems to me that it'd be way more confusing that way than having seperate articles for the books and adaption. Besides, what if there're bits that contradict the books later on? Then we'd have people removing stuff from the books and claiming that the original text "has no meaning". Omgwtflolz 12:46, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Firstly, Wikipedia convention dictates that manga/novels/anime should be placed together. Secondly, as I said before, we would keep the two separate, and RV anyone who screws it up...  I'll write up a merge in my sandbox and link it here, and see what everyone thinks...

It should be noted that the current Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is filled with so much misinformation that it'd take ages to correct all of it. I think that unless the merge is done by someone who has read the novels and can fix everything, it shouldn't be done. 202.156.6.54 03:55, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, I would like to suggest that this article be moved to The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (anime) to avoid confusion with the book. 202.156.6.54 04:42, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Nihon?, I just noticed that you're saying that the other article is redundant. I fail to see how that article, which is about the source material, is redundant. If anything, it's THIS article, which is about either one book in the series or the anime, that's redundant. 202.156.6.54 05:57, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, it should be noted that there are posts about the merge on Talk:Suzumiya_Haruhi_series too. 202.156.6.54 06:00, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Count another vote not to merge the anime and novel topics. Since the anime is popular, lots pf people will wind up contributing things to the article. In addition to the novel material, that would make the topic too large. Because it's popular, there'll be a lot of people contributing to the anime article. Not to mention that going through with a merge would cause more problems than it's worth, along with the other points that omgwtflolz and others already raised. 172.166.225.34 06:32, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * While I agree that there are problems, I believe that this current situation is unsatisfactory. You have one article on 'Suzumiya Haruhi Series', and then another on 'The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya' which seem somewhat unrelated.  At the very least, I would propose to rename this to 'Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu', and keep the Suzumiya Haruhi series page as a type of disambiguation page. --Nihon? 07:00, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

It's stated pretty clearly that Yuuutsu is part of the Suzumiya Haruhi series. Anyway, I think there've been enough opinions on the merging of the articles to reach a conclusion pretty much everyone who's against it have said why, and the only ones voting for it besides you haven't given any decent reasons at all. Omgwtflolz 08:01, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * The character profiles in this article seem to be pretty inaccurate. I do not think it's a good idea to merge these two until this article is fixed 84.239.128.19 12:37, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, looks like the discussion's done, I guess I'll go remove the merge boxes. Omgwtflolz 05:56, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Merge
To be honest I was surprised there was a seperate page for it, but yes.

I agree, until there is too much information on this one page, I think it's a good idea to put it together.

Onizuka-gto 21:51, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree. Merge away! The other page has much less content also. Kyaa the Catlord 11:48, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Greatest Anime of this Season?
Just thought to inform you Haruhi fans here, that a respected user who frequent both on 2Channel who does vital translations and information for the English language Animesuki forum has just given this statement:

"Among the anime that started in January, Fate/Stay Night is by far the most popular on the massive Japanese board 2channel. It is now on its 64th thread, each thread containing about 1000 posts.

'''Today, within three weeks of its debut, The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi has already caught up to Fate/Stay Night, reaching its own 64th thread. This is a phenomenon.'''

'''I realized yesterday that if this show maintains the high level it has kept through three episodes, I may have to consider it the greatest anime of all time. From what novel-readers say, the material is there."'''

And the fact that on Animesuki and other major anime fan forums there has been a explosive amount of interest, i don't see why this won't be true for English fans too.

Haruhi-ism all the way! :)

Onizuka-gto 23:36, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * This talk page is not for discussing the show. It is for discussing edits to the article. Please read Help:Talk_page. 202.156.6.54 05:43, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Anyone want to start a section about its insane popularity? Like you know, the countless threads (mentioned above), blog coverages, parodies, and imitations on the ED? deadkid_dk 15:53, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Infobox picture
There seems to be some dispute as to what the infobox picture should be. Offer your opinions here as to what you think the picture should be. I would rather have the original one with Haruhi, Yuki and Mikuru rather than the new one whose only purpose is to show the English translated title (via fansubs I might add), showing the back of Kyon as he's riding away on his bike.--Juhachi 07:03, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I vote the original one with Haruhi, Mikuru, and Yuki. The one with the English title really doesn't say much, I agree.  If we show the title in a picture, it should be the Japanese one, since an official English one hasn't been designed yet.  --Crisu 07:48, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that the title was written in English at the start of Episode 2 (or 1, depending how you look at it..) in the original broadcast. All the same, the other picture is better as it actually shows the cast and the title is written right above the picture anyway. Shiroi Hane 08:12, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I also prefer the orginal one, for the reasons stated above. deadkid_dk 08:47, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The original one is best. This other picture shows nothing but the back of one character, and the title, which is already put in many places around the picture.  It also misrepresents the animé, and gives a serious sort of feel to it.  The original pic doesn't.Mekryd 14:40, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * At first english text is from original japanese version. What I can say? Current picture is small, ugly and similar to "Haruhi Suzumiya" pic. I can capture something more interesting, any thoughts? Bya
 * Ok, I've uploaded two pics. 1 2 Bya
 * What about the SOS Brigade logo for the infobox picture? --Squilibob 07:27, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * That'd be cool for us, but it doesn't mean anything for the average reader. deadkid_dk 09:30, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Hairstyle Table
The table outlining Haruhi's system for styling her hair seems a bit unnecessary to me. The information is not especially important, not so much as the fact that she had a system in the first place. Mekryd 14:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Telepathy in episode 2
I have discussed this with other people in my IRC channel, and they have mutally agreed to the following as true:

"In Episode 2, when Haruhi tells Mikuru to drop the Calligraphy club, Mikuru glances over to Yuki where a small bell jingles. Afterwards, Mikuru reacts and says "I see... I understand," and joins the SOS Brigade. The jingle indicates that Yuki was using telepathy to tell Mikuru to honor Haruhi's request."

There's no other way to explain Mikuru's reaction along with the jingle cue.

If you don't believe the above is true, please comment. If anyone else supports it, I will readd the above back to trivia.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.84.88.110 (talk • contribs) 15:25, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Please sign your things. =3 That is purely speculation.  It could very well be the best explanation, but it isn't rooted in fact, nor is it really trivia, at that.  It doesn't have much of a place in the article.  She could've just seen Yuki and understood the situation.  The bells could have signified her noticing Yuki for the first time.  See?  All purely speculation, and really has no bearing. Mekryd 16:12, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it was more of a "oh, so you're here too" moment. Shiroi Hane 16:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * That's what I thought when I saw it. Nagato, Itsuki, and Mikuru all seemed to immediately know that each of the others wasn't a normal human. Mikuru said something along the lines of "The other two are extremely similar to me." Roanhammer 18:37, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree, Roanhammer; if what Asahina says is true she's been observing Haruhi for anything up to three years, and she is from the future. She may have uncovered Yuki's identity earlier or been briefed on it from the start of her mission. It could simply simply be recognition, and her mission objective demands she find out why Yuki is now so close to Haruhi. Fluffy James 10:30, 29 May 2006 (UTC)