Talk:The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (novel)/Archive 2

Haruhi hairstyle pic
Okay, I'm going to change it back to the way I had it since the original version has her Friday hairstyle first and her Monday hairstyle last, which makes absolutely no sense.--Juhachi 06:25, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I've only one thing to say. If you can't do it better don't touch it. When friday is first it looks really nice. Bya
 * Personally, I think the job you did cramming all 5 days into one tiny pic only serves to make it look bad; is there any reason to have all 5 days anyway? How about just putting one day in, like that Wednesday pic I had put up earlier. But not only that, but your logic escapes me. My re-done version of the hairstyle pic is almost exactly the same. How can you possibly say that your version looks better when they're both so similiar and when yours is clearly out of order with the days of the week. --Juhachi 07:00, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No matter what a kind of days is first. It's just a good example of the Haruhi's hairstyles.
 * If somebody accept your ideas I'll think about it. Bya
 * I personally think the picture and the mention of her hairstyle are unnecessary. Otherwise, I prefer Juhachi's version, which is in order. deadkid_dk 08:18, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Now it's in order... Bya
 * Order is good. They both looked the same, so order is good.  I still think we should cut the hairstyle part out (or at least shorten it a lot).  After all, it didn't even last through the second episode. Mekryd 12:53, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The reason I brought this subject to light was to show just how strange Haruhi can be, and besides, it also states how she regards males as vegetables, though that's not really brought up again after the second episode either.--Juhachi 13:52, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * True, but she continues to regard them as such (or at least, they don't mention otherwise), while it is quite clear that she stopped the hair thing. It should be mentioned, but not take up so much space as it is. Mekryd 14:04, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Tsuruya
Should this character get a mention? She's Asahina's friend, and one of the actors in "Episode 00". We could make it at least as meaningful as the Ryoko segment, if not better, methinks. Mekryd 15:51, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Sure, she seems like a good character to add. She has such a distinctive laugh too. XD --Juhachi 22:23, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The thing is, I don't know the Kanji, etc. to go with it...Mekryd 02:32, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Anti-Conspiracy Theories
Upon watching all these episodes of Suzumiya Hsruhi no Yuutsu ("Haruhi" in context that follows), I was inspired of a term "Anti-Conspiracy Theories".

Conspiracy theories indicate that the world is not what we percieve every day, since some entities which have enormous power are intentionally covering up the truth of the world (or some particular events of course). Conspiracy theories can be about nearly everything: as "small" as political, economic arrangements under the table (Soviet-America collaboration & 9.11 conspiracies), and as "big" as the existence of extraterrestrial lives or even the whole philosophical understanding of the world (Area 51 & The Matrix). Thus the world view of Haruhi falls at least partially into the category.

As seemingly insane as the cliams of "Billy" Meier, I do not personally believe that anyone would actually elaborate a conspiracy theory claiming that the truth of the world lies in the mind of a girl like Suzumiya Haruhi, since it sounds completely nonsensical. A great part of fun from Haruhi is generated in this way, presenting ideologies that are impossible yet plausible in some manner. I believe it is not adequate to call the world view of Haruhi a conspiracy theory, since traditional conspiracies are always trying to make themselves realistic and concrete. When Haruhi happily announces that the reason for her search of aliens and espers is solely "omoshiroi" (fun), the animation can be viewed as a satire of many classical conspiracies.

Also, the conspiracy theories has always wanted to create a more or less uncertain and passive feeling about the world. The indications of human-beings being controlled or determined appears often in a conspiracy. In other words, we cannot determine our own fates in a world that is run by someone/something in power. Moreover, the implications of unknown beings, for instance aliens, usually arouse fear and anxieties. However, in Haruhi, nothing goes in a gruesome manner. The goal of SOS Dan--to play with strange beings--is revealing. Notice here that the unknown beings are not supposed to be benevolent in the context of Haruhi, but the spirit of the story is that "if you can't smile, grin" (Winston Churchill). If there is no way of resistance, why not cooperate?

In summary of all these, I would like to call Haruhi a anti-conspiracy theory. It means at the same time a conspiracy is confirmed, it is also accepted as a fact taken for granted instead of stereotyped horror stories. A rough example of this would be turning the mood and tone of the TV series X-Files into the movie Man in Black. As things concerning conspiracy theories are extremely popular today, the appearence of Haruhi may be no coincidence but a natural response? Personally, I feel that Haruhi is a great agent of compromise, which injected some high-quality happy sunshine into the pictures belong to ultimate darkness.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.68.230.171 (talk • contribs) 20:24, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Reasons for manga's cancellation
"The reasons for this stem from the fact that the manga was considerably different from the novel and had little input from the original author."

This is a wrong information, or gratuitous at least. It should be removed if there isn't any firm evidence. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 132.179.39.36 (talk • contribs) 17:12, 29 May 2006 UTC.


 * Then either remove it (stating why), correct it, or tag it for citation (which I've done, not knowing the answer either way myself). Shiroi Hane 01:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The reason the manga was canceled was that the manga-ka was producing a related side h-doujin at the same time. The publishing company was hevily opposed and canceled the manga, pretty much denying its existance. RaptorFB 08 June 2006

The cancelled manga
The reasons for this stem from the fact that the manga was considerably different from the novel and had little input from the original author.

That was from the article. But the Japanese Wikipedia says that in addition of having little input from the original author, the artist was drawing H doujinshi of Haruhi at the same time. The publishers were so mad they just pulled the original Haruhi manga off their magazine and pretended it never existed.

I'm posting this here because I don't know where to add this tibit in the article. deadkid_dk 08:39, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya radio drama
I'd like to see a section mentioning this. I would add, but I really can't understand the thing at all.--SeizureDog 23:42, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not really the same, but I mentioned it in the introduction. Fixed some weird phrasing while I was at it. Mekryd 20:24, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Spoilers from novels?
I've seen all the Aired episodes thus far, and there is information in here that was not mentioned in the anime, which I assume is either from the novels or speculation from fans. Either way, I don't think it belongs in the page. We don't know for certain that the anime will faithfully follow the novels to the end, and besides it's a bit odd to have spoilers for things not in the series yet.

For example, the second paragraph in the Ryoko Asakura entry is not from the series thus far, though the first paragraph is accurate.

The last sentences in the Mikuru Asahina entry and Yuki Nagato entry are not supported by the anime thus far.

Some of the stuff in the Sealed Reality section seems like speculation to me, but I will have to go watch the episodes again to check. Identity0 23:22, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The anime has remained loyal to the series so much as to take some parts of it verbatim. They already make references to the past (from the odd chronological order of the episodes) that show most of it related, such as "I wonder if he moved to Canada", making a reference to Ryoko 'moving away' suddenly when investigating the missing computer person.  If you look at the episode title, it's showing the titles of the books, and reflects the plotline.

The Sealed Reality is also from the book, which really only clarifies what they mention in passing in the Anime so far. Mekryd 23:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The same things could be said about the Lord of The Rings movies, but they still cut some major parts, like Tom Bombadillo. Even if they end up putting it in the anime, I'm still not sure about putting in things that have not been explicitly been shown/mentioned yet. I think it is better to err on the side of omission than possible inaccuracy. After all, do we really need the info on Ryoko's fate, or the details of Sealed Reality at this point? Identity0 01:24, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The LoTR movies aired in chronological order, and thus could not have things that have 'already happened'. They also were horribly different from the books at the start.


 * Info on the sealed reality isn't really that bad. You'd have had it by now had the series gone in order. Mekryd 06:15, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The Sealed Reality stuff perhaps could be inferred from what was in the series so far, but I still don't like the character info that are spoilers for the anime, if not the novels. Character deaths should at least not be thrown in like that. While they have obliquely referenced it with the Canada comment, it clearly is not meant to be understood as such by the audience for now. They have not alluded to it directly, as they have the "world-cramping incident" or other events that occured "in the past" of episodes.
 * Remember also that the anime is fansubbed, but AFAIK the novels are not. Do we even know how far in the novels they are going to go into? Identity0 07:17, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


 * http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi- There's a link to the translation project for the novels. They've got the first done, and have other sporadically translated chapters.  Everything so far has been more or less exactly what happened, with minor discrepencies (In the novels, Kyon was the one taking the blackmail pictures of the computer club, not Haruhi, though Haruhi was the one who forced everything still).  Ryoko's death should probably be cut out, though, yes.Mekryd 16:49, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Airdate #1 Deduction
Airdate #1 is listed as chronological #Unknown. However I believe we can now enhance this information. In Airdate #9, Haruhi wants to take photos of Mikuru - "Pictures for the cover jacket for the upcoming DVD of the movie we showed at the cultural festival, 'The Adventures of Mikuru Asahina.'"

This means that Airdate #1 could have a chronological indicator of : Before Chronological Episode #14.
 * I suggusted once before that it could very well be episode 13 in chonlogical order, though it has not been confirmed yet, so for now, it should remain unknown.--Juhachi 00:04, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * So long as we're speculating... The movie is made in the second novel.  The Boredoem of Haruhi Suzumiya, Mysterique Sign, and Remote Island Syndrome are all in the third novel.  This would place it between the Melancholy arc and the Boredome episode.  That means it's between 4 and 7. Mekryd 01:57, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * But seeing as there is no mention of the movie in episode 8, 9 or 10 (chonlogically), I wouldn't be so sure.--Juhachi 05:28, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Agitation! Trembling! Edit warring!
Before things get nasty, let's discuss things here: Would it be better to translate 涼宮ハルヒの動揺 into the "Trembling of Suzumiya Haruhi" or the "Agitation of Suzumiya Haruhi"?

I personally support "agitation", since "trembling" implies a physical action whereas agitation is a mental state. deadkid_dk 01:59, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, 動揺 translates to dōyō which does indeed mean agitation, but it can also mean uneasieness, disturbance, unrest, shaking, trembling and pitching depending on the context. I also agree that it should be translated as "The Agitation" since it seems to fit better with the rest of the titles from the other books and can give the reader a better idea of what perhaps happens in the book. Trembling also implies being scared of something (in most context), so I believe that this is misleading unless something like that does indeed happen in the book. When you think of Haruhi Suzumiya, the character, you think of a strong-willed girl with lots of energy and resolve, not a timid girl who trembles. Such a girl as Haruhi Suzumiya does get agitated in her life, which she has shown numerous times when things don't go the way she wants them to.--Juhachi 02:43, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I looked up definition and got: disturbance/unrest/shaking/trembling/pitching/rolling/oscillation/agitation/excitement/commotion. Note that most definitions are a physcial action.  I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but the Kanji in the article doesn't seem to match the kanji on the cover art (Here and here).  Maybe it's a weird text thing.  I tried to copy/paste the text from the site, but it stayed the same  Mekryd 02:47, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * It is a "weird text thing" as you put it. I typed in douyou and got 動揺, just as it is presented in the article.--Juhachi 04:34, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * ? I don't see the text difference. Okay, I went to ask Shimei about this, and 'Agitation' is better in the context. --Li Jianliang
 * There's a differenc,e though probably an insignificant one. The top of the second kanji is different, at least on my computer.  Meh, if he says so. Mekryd 03:41, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Asahina Mikuru's Breastventure - Episode 00 ?
I'd like to know where this translation come from? In its orginal Japanese form it only translates to "Asahina Mikuru's Adventure - Episode 00." Anyway I have reverted it. --Leeyc0 12:35, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I've just found out that the user who vandalized this page by renaming the episode as Asahina Mikuru's Breastventure is an anon - 202.156.6.54 - who has regularly vandalized many pages, and was temporarily blocked for his/her vandalism, and was given a last warning that if he/she ever vandalized again, should be banned permanently. - Ganryuu 10:01, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Episode summaries
Someone please write up little summaries for the boxes. I'm not too good at that sort of thing, I'm a pictures and basic data man.--SeizureDog 03:38, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Alright, I added some basic summaries open to editing.--Juhachi 04:23, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh. I was working on some, but I hit refresh instead of submit in my tiredness and instinctive reflexes. ^^;  I tried to reconstruct the changes as well as I could remember them. Mekryd 04:43, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Article size
Upon clicking on edit this page on the article I noticed a message at the top reading:

This page is 32 kilobytes long. This may be longer than is preferable; see article size.

From what I see with the article size conventions, under "Rule of thumb" it states:

> 30 KB May eventually need to be divided (likelihood goes up with size; this is less critical for lists).

Should we consider spliting this article or leave it alone for now?--Juhachi 23:13, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * There's not really a significant part yet that we could split, I think. Perhaps after all the episodes air, we can see if that section is long enough to stand on its own.  There's not much media information, as most articles get split that way first.  Right now 32 isn't so bad, and sometimes articles just won't have a logical split.  --Crisu 01:14, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Methinks the character section, with a bit of work, could be brought into its own article. We could even use that character section for the novel series, as they all share the same characters, designs, etc. Mekryd 02:04, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


 * And then perhaps with enough input we could also supply differences between the novel and the anime (and the manga if we chose to include it).--Juhachi 05:21, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


 * All right; sounds good. ^^  So should a move be done now or until the anime finishes airing?  Again, 32kb right now isn't so bad, and leaving the section here will make editing more convenient as new anime eps reveal more character information.   --Crisu 06:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The only real difference I can think off the top of my head is that Kyon was the one with his finger on the shutter when they went to 'obtain' a computer. We should leave the article intact until we decide what to split, and then wait until it's large enough to make its own article.Mekryd 13:36, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm okay with that Mekryd, but I just thought I'd point out that the article has grown 3 KB in a mere 2 days. If it keeps growing at the rate, it'll be into the 40's before the end of this week and then possibly the 50's the week after.--Juhachi 06:18, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

The trivia section
See Trivia. This article is focusing too much on its trivia section which we shouldn't even have in the first place. If you want to add trivia take it to the SOS wiki, but leave it out of here. The entire trivia section has been moved here for references while we attempt to merge some of the more relevent trivia back into the article. But do NOT create another trivia section, this encourages too much irrelivent info to be added. If we begin to have articles for each episode, then a trivia section can be had in them, but the main article must remain trivia free. --SeizureDog 20:21, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Not to be excessively pedantic, but WP:Trivia isn't even a guideline, but an essay. That said, I think that creating an episode guide article and putting the trivia therein would be a great idea. --moof 20:38, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
 * True enough, but when a trivia sections gets to be over a page long then it's just getting to be way too much. --SeizureDog 20:42, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with the idea of including it in the episode article, should we split it. Mekryd 20:52, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and done this. Whee! --moof 21:38, 13 June 2006 (UTC)