Talk:The Mole (American TV series) season 5

Comeback
I just found out that the Mole is coming back. As a fan of the show, I am really excited, but also curious as to who the host will be. Anderson Cooper hosted the original versions, with Ahmad Rashad hosting the Celebrity Mole. Who will it be?  Tigers fan1992 How you doing? 00:57, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * So far very little information has been leaked. The official name hasn't even been announced. However, principle production is scheduled to begin on or around March 1, which is only about a week away. More should be known soon. Doctorindy (talk) 02:20, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


 * ABC has a Mole page now, with very little information on it at this time, but at least there's something. S. Ellis (talk) 03:24, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Show Name
What is the source of the title "The Saboteur's Return"? If it was just made up it should probably be removed. Jeff321 02:12, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The official page calls it "The Mole", which there is already a page for, so would something like "The Mole (2008 US TV Series)" be better?  Even though I've been on wiki for a few years now, I'm still fairly new to the whole procedures and such.  I kinda think the main US TV series page of The Mole should be redone, but that's a different issue for a different time. S. Ellis (talk) 15:12, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the "Saboteur" name came from a blog entry way back in August 2007. Since then, they have not used that name in any official use. Since there have been several press releases and official information announced from ABC themselves, (none of which have used that monikor), I think it's safe to say it's not going to be used. The proper way to change the name is through the "Move" tab up on the top of the page.....do NOT do a "red-link" copy-paste exercise. With that in mind, I second the notion that it be moved to The Mole (2008 US TV Series) If there is no objection in the next day or so, I'll go head and move the page this week.Doctorindy (talk) 23:05, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't mean to steal your thunder, but I had some free time, so I did the move. S. Ellis (talk) 02:45, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks good. Just need to follow up on some of the re-direct links here and there. Doctorindy (talk) 14:02, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I just realized a mistake, "Series" is not supposed to have a capital s, and it looks like US is supposed to be U.S. based on other TV articles. This goes in line with my suggestion at The Mole (US TV series), but would it be better to move once again to The Mole (U.S. Season 5) as per WP: Season naming?  I am still fairly new to all the procedures, despite being a member for a few years (I usually just do minor edits), so if I'm doing something wrong, please let me know, thanks. S. Ellis (talk) 05:50, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Before moving it again, I suggest waiting just a couple more weeks to see if any more production details surface. It is still possible that "season 5" (some still consider this "season 3") will have a unique name (i.e., "The Next Betrayal," etc.) It's only a month away, it's close enough to wait for. Doctorindy (talk) 16:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I guess I got a little too ambitious with moving things around, now that I have an idea of how that goes.  S. Ellis (talk) 18:15, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If I could put my two cents worth, I really think that the original article The Mole (US TV series) should become a disambiguation article or maybe a generic article about the show and its rules. Season 1's article should be renamed The Mole (Season 1) or something. There's more discussion about this on the other article's talk page too. --Mezaco (talk) 03:18, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Possible Clues
I don't think speculation sections are meant for these articles, and should be removed. I could be wrong though, which is why I'm posting here first. S. Ellis (talk) 01:30, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, we as editors should not be adding these. Only at the end of the game, if they reveal all the viewer clues, then we can list them. --M ASEM  01:36, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Please list the possible clues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.108.144.41 (talk) 15:11, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Biographical material of living persons
Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales is adamant about this: DO NOT put unsourced, uncited alleged information about living people. ABC did not release the contestants' last names -- so where did they come from? The show hasn't even aired yet, so clearly they didn't come from onair. Where did they come from? If you can't cite a source, why not? --69.22.254.108 (talk) 16:23, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

"Spoilers"
Before the episode was already over, the name of the first 'victim' was posted. I deleted it temporarily on the grounds that it was done too early (i.e., before it aired on the West Coast). Samer (talk) 03:02, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Once a show's aired on the East Coast, people are free to edit appropriately; WP has no spoiler warnings and we're not on tape delay. However if editors would be careful to make sure edit summaries only state what type of information they added, and not specific details (eg "Adding that Mr. Loser was executed to article"), that would help those on the west coast with this page in watchlist but not looking until after the show airs. --M ASEM  06:14, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed in that wikipedia is not a spoiler-free zone. It strives to be as accurate and up to date as possible, so the information should be added once the episode has first aired, even if it has not aired elsewhere; but as stated, considerate editors would include edit summaries saying "mark down 2nd player executed" as opposed to "marked Tony execuate", for watchlist reasons. TheHYPO (talk) 19:44, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Tables
I believe there are 10, maybe 11 episodes (depending on how they do the reveal), so there shouldn't be 13 rows on the execution chart. Also, with having the chart, the "Game Status" column can be removed as it is a bit redundant. I was going to change both myself, but figured I'd wait to see how everyone else felt before hand. S. Ellis (talk) 18:48, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This is the first time that this program has been covered on WP "live." All the rest of the seasons' pages were created after-the-fact. I think keeping that column in the chart is actually a halfway decent idea, since it's a current event and the pages is acting as "news." Although, I'll make a small tweak to seperate the active players from the executed players. Doctorindy (talk) 20:23, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

More tables
I respect and appreciate the attempt to organize the article, and I know it's based on previous seasons' article formats, but if we objectively compare this (current) version to this (prior) version, I believe that the table simply rehashes the entire summary already posted, and does so taking up almost double the space that the episode's review took up previously. Looking at it, there is no information in the table that was not previously given, and it's arguably easier to follow the results of a task when the result is listed under the task, instead of again after the episode summary. I see the potential argument that this way all the money results are together, and it is also mildly less spoilery to someone who just wants to read what the tasks were and not what the result was, but that's not what wikipedia is for.

Does anyone agree that the tables (think 13 episodes) will ultimately be way to cumbersome for the article (it doesn't help that they leave 2/3 or 3/4 or more of the width of the page wasted every time one is used). Discuss. TheHYPO (talk) 19:43, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I aligned the table with the right and beginning of the episode recap. This keeps the same space as the recap would have without the table. I think the table should be kept as it's a lot easier to quickly glance by and read once the season is over. --72.133.222.209 (talk) 05:07, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I really like this look, it keeps the nicely formatted information without worrying about it taking up room and creating the white space of having it at the bottom of the section. Nice work. :) --Maelwys (talk) 13:16, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Now that it's at the right, It's good; Good job. I wasn't sure tables could be embedded in the the text in that way. That said, I made a slight edit to the table to try and conserve space; note that by splitting the table into two blocks, the exemption/execution player's name doesn't have to be as wide as the longest game name; the issue is that I'm not sure wikipedia can do "attached" tables (could always do it in html code, but wikipedia doesn't like that); any idea if two wikipedia tables can be "attached" so there's no space between them? The savings are marginal, but when we get to 13 episodes, every little bit will help.


 * I believe it has to do with the  that wikipedia puts in for the carriage return between the |} and {| of the two tables (you have to start a table on a new line or it doesn't take). TheHYPO (talk) 14:41, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I like the split look. It also adds functionality if we need to add more rows onto the money table (penalties, ect...)--Remmizekim (talk) 17:44, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Test? Game? Task? Challenge?
What are they calling the tests this year? I'm pretty sure they were called "tests" in the first seasons, but whatever they are calling it this year (if it remains consistant) should probably be used in the article. I will take note on Monday if noone remembers from last week. TheHYPO (talk) 15:05, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe they are calling them "Missions" this season. At least according to their quiz (http://abc.go.com/primetime/themole/index?pn=quiz) - " Question 2: When did the Mole jump in the "Over the Falls" mission?" --Remmizekim (talk) 17:43, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * In season 1, they were called "tests," in season 2 they were called "games," in C3-C4 they were called "games" also I believe. They do look like they're called "missions" this time around. Doctorindy (talk) 20:11, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * "Missions" was the word used. Samer (talk) 13:17, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Ratings
Not sure if other reality shows on WP have been keeping track of ratings, but if that's the case, Epiosde 1 got a 3.4/6 fast national (BTW, not too impressive). Doctorindy (talk) 20:11, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Gotta keep in mind that it was extremely poorly promoted, and it's a summer show which has different standards. Not great, but not terrible. TheHYPO (talk) 23:45, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Cast section?
I'm reluctant about this person-by-person cast member breakdown. If a cast member is notable, they will earn their own page. If not, I don't think the information is relevant to this article (read: I don't think Alex's going to University of Colorado or that he was president of the high school jazz band adds anything to the understanding of the Mole topic.)

If this goes on for the entire cast, the article will become severely huge. At very least, this needs to go in Contestants on The Mole (U.S. Season 5), but I think that it needs to be nixed from wikipedia entirely. Much of it seems to be a direct pull from CBS's contestant profiles, which is not appropriate wikipedia content, and other sources included self-published websites or myspaces, which I think is generally considered an unrelable source that if used is supposed to be noted with something like "according to Blah's own website,..." so that readers know this isn't objective fact, but self-promotion.

If it's coming from CBS's site, a simple link to each person's page as a source in the contestant table will provide the reader access to that info without putting it here where it doesn't pertain to. TheHYPO (talk) 13:33, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, a lot of it does seem to have been lifted verbatim from ABC's website (not CBS ;) - http://abc.go.com/primetime/themole/index?pn=hostbio&t=contestant. -Paul1337 (talk) 23:54, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * ABC... CBS... PBS... GPS... you know what I meant ;) TheHYPO (talk) 06:11, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah the GPS channel...perfect for telling you where you are! --Remmizekim (talk) 14:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Bribe
I think it's better off to just say "Grey indicates the player was bribed and left the game" in the legend. a) it allows future bribes of any other amount to use the same color b) it eliminates superfluous information from the legend that readers can get by looking at the specific episode and c) the player wasn't just "offered" a bribe of 30k, they accepted it (all players were offered both 30 and 20). It's clearly outlined in the episode summary, so why not just leave it there. TheHYPO (talk) 20:31, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with the above. Grey should just indicate a bribe regardless of the dollar amount. Davehi1 (talk) 21:24, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree as well - zachinthebox (Talk) 23:26, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Spoilers
Is it a good idea to posts spoilers of the show, and we're not even halfway through the season already? Are the spoilers even true, I didn't look at them to see, I just took a glance and noticed them. Rollinman (talk) 06:23, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Please look here. This has already been discussed. Also, there is a lot of childish minor edits that label people as the winner, mole, ect. Just don't believe them as they are completely speculation. --Remmizekim (talk) 18:32, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Kristen Being A Model
I noticed under Kristen's Occupations, it has her listed as a model. I mean just because she's a blonde female like Ali doesn't mean she's a model. On the show or the official Mole website, it doesn't have her shown or listed as a model. Maybe we should fix that? -JasonDeLima (talk) 13:53, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh nevermind, I just read her bio and see she was interested in modeling. But that really isn't one of her occupations, is it? -JasonDeLima (talk) 13:55, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

She has stated a few times that she used to model. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.3.183.5 (talk) 22:51, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Go Figure note
FWIW--the numbers were part of the Fibonacci sequence. Samer (talk) 02:19, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Possible Earnings Error?
As of the end of Episode 8, it says the possible earnings so far are $728,000 which can't be right since they're playing for up to $500,000. JaziB (talk) 17:15, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Unless people copied numbers other than that heard from the show, the numbers add up perfectly. May have something to do with the sabotage? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sublety (talk • contribs) 23:58, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, none of the previous four seasons' totals added up to what the show said, so I wouldn't put too much stock into that. My belief is that with the first two seasons, they used the million as a nice round number, and it was actually close to the true total if all games were won (1.06 million in season 1, somewhere between 1.1 and 1.2 for season 2).  The past 3 seasons, the actual pot has been almost double what the show claims.  My guess is the producers want whoever wins to get close to the advertised prize, in this case, the half million.  So whenever the group doesn't win all the money on a certain task, the producers adjust future ones so the winner still can get fairly close to the half million.  That's my theory on that anyway, who knows how accurate that really is. S. Ellis (talk) 11:36, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * According to Bill's book, and some other articles...here's basically how it goes. The producers get a pot of $500,000 (or $1 million) to deal with. They have the games planned out, and make initial estimates on what each game will be worth. But as the games are going along, they make adjustments. The goal of the producers is to "save" something like 25%-35% from going into the pot...thus the Mole sabatoges the money. If they get later on in the game, and the pot is still considered low, they can adjust the games' cash value as they see appropriate. For example, they originally may have only planned the "Ticket to Ride" game to be worth 25K, but by the time they got there, they had some money left over (the earned pot was lower than it was estimated), and decided to make the game worth 50K. That's what skews the final total. Doctorindy (talk) 02:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Doctorindy, somehow I either missed or forgot that part from Bill's book. I guess I'll just have to read it again...no complaint from me there. S. Ellis (talk) 04:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Elimination table revision

 * Color key
 * The contestant was executed.
 * The contestant earned or claimed an exemption.
 * The contestant was tied for the lowest score on the quiz, but completed it in a faster time.

24.191.232.15 (talk) 15:55, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Second revision to elimination table
Color key: • {{legend|#73FB76|Winner}}

• {{legend|#fbf373|The Mole}}

• {{legend|#D1E8EF|Runner-up}}

• {{legend|#ccffcc|Earned or claimed exemption}}

• {{legend|#87CEFA|Tied for lowest score}}

• {{legend|pink|Executed}}

• {{legend|#fcf|Accepted bribe}} SerenityRune (talk) 12:27, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Supplemental revision
Color key: • {{legend|#73FB76|Winner}}

• {{legend|#fbf373|The Mole}}

• {{legend|#D1E8EF|Runner-up}}

• {{legend|#ccffcc|Earned or claimed exemption}}

• {{legend|#87CEFA|Tied for lowest score}}

• {{legend|pink|Executed}}

• {{legend|#fcf|Accepted bribe}}

SerenityRune (talk) 22:40, 8 July 2024 (UTC)