Talk:The Night Watch

Bicyclic (talk) 13:38, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
220912 just to mention that the hi-res version of the picture is much larger than it needs to be in terms of data volume. It took several minutes to download on a 16MBPS link. I think the file size is about 40MB but was unable to complete verifying this. Could those who supply the image please put a file of a more manageable size into the page? Thanks Bicyclic (talk) 13:38, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

King Crimson
I don't believe for a moment that the paragraph on the progressive rock group King Crimson is of the slightest interest to anyone looking for information on this great work. I've deleted it. Palefire 01:07, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)

I am unfamiliar with the King Crimson reference (and am now intrigued), but the progressive rock group Ayreon has a song from the view point of one individual possing for The Night Watch. You may review the lyrics at on the Ayreon website. --RedKnight 20:11, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I added KC song title Night Watch into cultural references because the song clearly is about the painting. The lyrics of the entire song are about the subject matter of the painting, and the concluding verses discuss how men of the upper classes try to communicate to the masses through "the painter's brush".(Anon Oct 4 2012) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.175.135.49 (talk) 00:02, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Popular reception
Changed this heading from 'myths' because I believe it more accurate. The external link which yields this information does not claim that the misconception began with the advertisement, merely that it continued and contributed to it. JNW 23:40, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Simon Schama in The Power of Art claims at least one patron *was* dissatisfied with the painting and refused to pay, and R had to submit his "grievance" to a court of his peers in an arbitration which he found embarrassing. He names the patron as well as the source for this story, which he says is one of R's students, whom again he names. I don't have the name of either patron or student in front of me, but this seems like at least some support for the belief that the work rankled some people. Someone with more expertise than I should either discredit Schama with new information and sources, or at least offer his version as an alternative. It appears the issue is far from settled, unless as I said Schama can be conclusively debunked.

67.180.44.133 (talk) 00:32, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

comment on trivia item
First trivia item states: "Rembrandt cleverly included himself in the painting. In the background, slightly above and to the left of the Captain's head, all that is visible of him is an eye, a nose, part of a forehead, and his painter's beret." Agreed that trivia does not belong; though artist's self depiction in famous painting might fit in narrative and not be considered trivia. However, no citation is provided and the curatorial materials at the Rijksmuseum note that *some believe* this figure to be a self portrait, but experts are not in agreement about it. 68.20.20.179 (talk) 17:59, 26 December 2007 (UTC)dmittleman

Chiaroscuro
IS this painting an example of Chiaroscuro? if not, why not? if it is, should it be mentioned? ---Uwaisis (talk) 16:34, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

- No, this is not an example of chiaroscuro, it is however, an example of tenebrism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.143.242.58 (talk) 19:49, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Tenebrism is a type of chiaroscuro with heightened contrast between light and shadow as you can learn from the relevant Wikipedia article. --Georgius (talk) 10:24, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Name
Should be The Night Watch, as it is normally so called, and this is not a standard title. Johnbod (talk) 22:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

What about "Captain Banning Cocq's Sortie of the Civic Guard". I've seen it referred to as that in online galleries and art books. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.203.144.131 (talk) 18:38, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I've moved it to The Night Watch (painting). --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  20:00, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Fixing the Trivia Section
I have changed "Trivia" to "Other Representations" which might not be accurate, but at least we don't have a "Trivia" section any longer. Of course, this meant I had to delete a little factoid about Rembrandt having painted himself "very cleverly" over the captain's left shoulder, but I don't think the article is the worse for wear missing something akin to an urban legend. Jaloka (talk) 14:21, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * No, you still have a trivia section; it's just not titled trivia. Don't change the title; remove the section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.113.148.18 (talk) 11:28, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

-- Considering Peter Greenaway's amazing reconstruction of the historical context of the painting, this wiki entry may be insufficient to convey its greatness. In fact, even the Dutch National Museum's attempts are quite deceiving in this respect as they are commenting this very painting with "Rembrandt often sacrificed accuracy for liveliness"! A disgrace, which Wikipedia authors and art admirers should try to repair.

Certainly one noticeable aspect of the painting is not one but the "many trivias" or call them "puzzles", which Greenaway arranged together to a very compelling theory.

Just to make some citation of his movie: please take notice how the "devilish black" de Coq is holding a "pointing" right hand glove in his own right hand... while it is his left hand that is naked... And now, 3 years before this painting, Rembrandt paints this other work : Please notice the glove on the ground...

Can all these puzzles really be coincidences? It would be an unfair depiction of the baroque culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.211.168.51 (talk) 10:48, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * "The dead chicken is also meant to represent a defeated adversary. " The symbol of France is the cockerel. Catholic France in 1642 was still deeply embroiled in the Thirty Years' War. Holland was a bastion of Protestantism.--Wetman (talk) 01:05, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

hey, it also proves how they're totally gay: just look at that one guy pointing at the other dude's crotch. shall we please leave all the crazy conspiracy-talk to the mona lisa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.127.246.170 (talk) 23:31, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was move per request as the primary topic.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:42, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

The Night Watch (painting) → The Night Watch – Primary topic. JackofOZ moved the page from Night Watch (painting) to The Night Watch (painting) in April. Page views: 43.2K 12.8K (there's a 7.2K outlier here) 3.5K. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 22:55, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose it should be redirected to the disambiguation page Night Watch which features several "The"s. -- 70.50.149.56 (talk) 05:41, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * That's not the issue. Johnbod (talk) 09:05, 9 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Support as clearly primary. Johnbod (talk) 09:05, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Support. Clear primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:58, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Leads The Eye
The article already mentions "With effective use of sunlight and shade, Rembrandt leads the eye to [...]". There's (at least) one more thing, that's not yet mentioned in the article, namely the use of lines. I'm Dutch; my art teacher explained the lines-thing to me in art class when I was young. I couldn't find an image that explains the lines-thing via Google, so I made one myself. It can be found here. Mirror of the image here. I'm not a native English speaker. How best to add what I've decribed here to the sentence I quoted ("With effective use of [...]")? Any suggestions? By the way, I know this is 'original research' but the whole Key elements section is unsourced - without references - anyways. --82.170.113.123 (talk) 18:48, 8 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Maurice Merleau-Ponty makes some observations about the lines of sight implied by the composition and the two central figures, these are briefly quoted in the article, and there's more in a chapter of Michael Bockemühl's Rembrandt (1992). From what I understadn of it, they're both pointing to slight bendings of the perspective and the use of shadows to "widen" the composition and enhance the figure of the captain. Merleau-Ponty seems to be saying, in another quote (found through Google Books) that the arm and hand of the captain, pointing prominently at the viewer and sort of pulling our eyes into the picture, are not fully consistent with the shadow of the same limb falling on the man next to him, and other shadows nearby. The shadow, then, has been rearranged by Rembrandt to influence the sense of space, and perhaps to make it look like the captain is a bit closer to us relative to his lieutenant than he really should be, judging from their legs.


 * Since this painting has been hugely influential and admired as an example of a lively group portrait, it could be useful to add something more into the article here about these questions of composition and lines of sight. 83.251.164.50 (talk) 14:56, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

What a Crazy Language
This article starts: "The Night Watch or The Shooting Company of Frans Banning Cocq (Dutch: De Nachtwacht)" The Dutch translation should perhaps be closer to what it is a translation of... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.158.48.17 (talk) 18:13, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Golden Girl
There has been some claim that the female character, sometimes named the "golden girl", was the portrait of his wife, Saskia van Uylenburgh. This could be integrated somewhere. --Eleassar my talk 11:11, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

the claws of a dead chicken on her belt represent the clauweniers (arquebusiers);
Might the chicken refer to Captain Cocq? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.36.69.30 (talk) 19:17, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

97.76.80.210 (talk) 23:29, 1 August 2017 (UTC)== key elements ==

I do not understand this line,;it could be written much more clearerly. "Moreover, all characters of this painting were conceived to present double readings." 97.76.80.210 (talk) 23:29, 1 August 2017 (UTC)slipandslide97.76.80.210 (talk) 23:29, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

key elements
This line is unclear: "Moreover, all characters of this painting were conceived to present double readings". Could someone who understands what it is supposed to mean please edit it. Slipandslide (talk) 23:38, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I removed the whole para in the end. It's very much a minority view. Certainly WP:UNDUE in the lead. Johnbod (talk) 03:17, 2 August 2017 (UTC)


 * If R wanted to effectively "make a statement" or communicate a concept, why would he make it so secret and impossibly difficult to decipher? All interpretations and readings are merely the subjective, private personal opinions of various spectators.173.61.223.136 (talk) 13:47, 16 October 2018 (UTC)De Mikeal Tibbetts

Digital completion
The restored painting has been digitally reproduced, together with its missing sections, using the Lundens copy:  The Rijksmuseum presumably has an announcement. Errantius (talk) 14:14, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Location
where is the picture set, which town? Biofuelsimon (talk) 19:21, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Biofuelsimon the painting is at the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam, and that city is where the Night Watch is set. Though it would be best to ask questions like this elsewhere since the talk page is WP:NOTAFORUM for discussion of the painting, but rather a place to discuss the contents of the article.  The Night Watch     (talk)   19:25, 12 December 2023 (UTC)