Talk:The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency (novel)

Reads like a school essay
This article needs to be re-written. Currently it reads like a fourth-form essay. I have taken out some of the more blatant, rather "naive" extrapolations, where the essayist has included his or her own "spin" on what is actually written:


 * "Smith also writes a dialogue to show how social Africans are, and that they are always ready to help even when it comes to strangers. For example, when Mma Ramotswe is on her investigation to uncover the secret about doctor Komoti, she meats a very welcoming nurse who, without even knowing Mma Ramotswe invites her to have tea and they talk together as if they were old friends. "


 * - Just not supported by the passage in the book at all. In fact, the passage shows that the nurse is quite unfriendly and dismissive when she meets Mma Ramotswe - a phenomenon that Mma Ramotswe has come across before, so she uses her guile to pretend that she used to be a nurse - only then does the nurse become friendly - though they hardly "talk together as if they were old friends". I would suggest that this scene, where a young nurse warms to an older woman who tells them they used to be a nurse, could be replicated anywhere in the world.


 * "Ramotswe talks about the African people and says that “they are my people, my brothers and sisters.” This is a metaphor used by the author, to compare the trustful and loving relationship between brothers and sisters to all of the African people. He shows that these people are like one big family, who help and support each other."


 * -Again, a rather naive reading of the book. Actually, Mma Ramotswe is talking about the Botswana people, not all African people - the author portrays Mma Ramotswe as not being free of prejudice, as in her mistrust of Nigerians, for example. Regarding "one big happy family" - wishful thinking, or just naievety - what position do the feckless men, insolent young people, corrupt officials, despotic local hard-men and witchdoctors portrayed in the book have in this "big happy family"?

This is indeed a good book, and and insightful one to. While it is clear that McCall Smith does have a love of Africa and Botswana, and its people, he doesn't pretend that everything is rosy in the garden, as this "essay" would have it.

I will attempt to re-write more of the article, and gladly welcome assistance. Camillus (talk) 10:06, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Removed: "He says one the second page of his novel, that Botswana is a place of peace and that everybody loves each other."

The essayist here takes the feelings of Mma Ramotswe, assigns them to the author, and portrays them as a universal truth. There is no mention of Botswana being a place where "everybody loves each other". Indeed, how could Mma Ramotswe and Mr Matekoni be expected to love the types as portrayed by Mr Charlie Gotso, and the witchdoctors, for example?

Removed: "This description to show how important friends and family are to all Africans. That they are simple people who like to relax and take life as it is without complicating it, as many white people do."

Again, the feelings of Mma Ramotswe, inaccurately described (see Chapter 16) and then promoted as universal truth.

Removed: "This is a metaphor used by the author, to compare the trustful and loving relationship between brothers and sisters to all of the African people."

While McCall Smith does indeed show his affection for the African people through his characters, he does not pretend that Africa does not have its problems, that African people are free of prejudice against people from other African countries, (Mma Ramotswe mistrusts Nigerians) - just as some British people mistrust French people, some people from the Caribbean islands mistrust Guyanese people. He portrays Africa and African people realistically, "for all their trials", he doesn't shirk away from the "heart of darkness" of the witchdoctors, corruption and despotism. While some wish to portray Africa as a benighted place, it is also, in my opinion, a kind of "reverse racism" to portray the continent and its people as a rosy garden populated by "one big happy family". I do not say that the essayist is guilty of this, just that he or she has portayed the book inaccurately, and, dare I say it, rather naively. Camillus (talk) 11:29, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

NEEDS TO BE ENTIRELY REWRITTEN AND RE-ORGANIZED
I agree that the article as it stands now is written in a personal essay type style. It also does not draw on existing verifiable, authoratative sources, and scholarship -- as is required for an article in an encyclopedia. The author/editor has instead provided his or her personal opinion and assessment of the book. It may be that author/editor of the current version did not know that a personal opinion piece is not supposed to be the basis of a Wikipedia article.

The edits by Camillus have definitly improved the piece by removing a number of personal opinion type statements and inaccuracies and he/she has indicated the willingness to work on it further. I agree that the article needs to be re-written with sources cited, and probably re-organized.

This is not to say that the editor of the present version has not tried to make a contribution. Many of the themes the author/editor has pointed to in the The First Ladies Detective Agency can be included, but they need to leave the realm of personal opinion and instead be based on what scholarly articles, book reviews, and other authoratative sources have already said on the subject. The neutral assessment of existing knowledge re: the novel:The First Ladies Detective Agency should be the focus of the article. I would be happy join with the current editors and others to help with revisions of this article. - Delancy 02:21, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I've started Wikifying all the pages in this series, initially by adding internal links and categories, as well as copyediting some of the writing. I'll return to this page in due course. ''-- Deborahjay 12:17, 24 April 2007 (UTC)'
 * Further: As The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency and the related pages on the individual novels are themselves published works, content that appears in the books themselves can be added to their pages (i.e. articles) without necessarily relying on secondary sources. The latter (e.g. scholarly articles, book reviews, etc. as noted above by Delancy) are of course appropriate as supportive material and may be added as citations and References. -- Deborahjay 19:58, 24 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It's in terrible need of sources. At the moment, it doesn't have single one. If I were to take out everything that wasn't sourced, all I'd be left with is the title and date of publication. Considering the traffic this and other related pages will pick up when the HBO show starts running in America, the entry needs to be sourced ASAP. RoyBatty42 (talk) 00:58, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Content of pages: series vs. novel
I would suggest that the content of this page, which is particularly about the first novel in the series, focus on its particular plot and related issues. General content relating to the series as a whole would be more appropriately situated on the page about The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency. Fellow editors, please take note! -- Cheers, Deborahjay 19:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Needs to be written again from scratch
This page can't be salvaged:


 * There is no synopsis of the novel


 * The content is not NPOV


 * The content is arguably inaccurate


 * The content is over-simplified


 * The standard of writing on the page is very poor (e.g. using 'Africa' as a substitute term for 'Botswana'

91.106.173.82 (talk) 09:17, 27 December 2007 (UTC) oops, not logged in Centrepull

Fair use rationale for Image:Alexander McCall Smith Ladies Detective Agency unabridged cassettes.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 18:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Reversion to old version
I apologize if it seems untoward, but I wanted to scrub out the offending content as best as I could. I made it as surgical a reversion as I could, given limited time. Further editing, of course, is needed, but I don't have the patience to keep that up. Captainktainer * Talk 00:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)