Talk:The O'Reilly Factor/Archive 2

Broad influence of the 'Factor'
Hi Daniel, I sent you an email but I'm not sure how this whole thing works so I'll repeat it here. I'm a newish wiki editor, so I'm not too sure how to discuss the 'reversion' you did on my O'Reilly entry. I disagree that the Dawkins/Wyndgate controversy really isn't about the 'factor. I think the fact that the owner of Wyndgate made the decision to not allow Dr. Dawkins to rent a room for a fundraising dinner only after seeing Dawkins on the 'factor'. This incident will apparently result in legal action regarding equal rights. I wonder if you would think this incident is relevant if they had discriminated against gay people, Muslims, a minority? Thanks for the conversation and your consideration. Skepticinpub (talk) 00:50, 15 October 2011 (UTC)Linda Long
 * I got you email Linda. I appreciate your willingness to discuss, but this really doesn't belong here.  Think about if we were writing a book about The Factor, would we have a chapter about this incident?  If it does turn into a huge lawsuit we can include it if and when that happens, but Wikipedia isn't a crystal ball. -- Daniel  02:57, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

New Salon article
http://www.salon.com/2013/05/29/i_was_a_liberal_mole_at_fox_news_from_bill_oreilly_to_roger_ailes_heres_all_the_inside_dope/

It has a lot of information about this show. It's a liberal POV but not a hit piece or full of cheap shots. 173.55.140.132 (talk) 01:35, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on The O'Reilly Factor. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060702212326/http://www.rollingstone.com:80/politics/story/6417561/mad_dog/ to http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/6417561/mad_dog/

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The "No Spin Zone"
As of the current edit, [Nov. 30, 2015, 11:33 p.m., UTC-0700], the section "No Spin Zone" is written in a rather rhetorical manner. See for example "[George Lakoff] is clearly demonstrating how...", or,

"There is an obvious account of you either love him or hate him view towards O’Reilly, but should he be faulted for using the very tactics that Lakoff wishes the Democratic party would like to utilize more? While some claim that O’Reilly “performs” belief rather than fact in the news, while others like Jon Stewart performs “irony” in the news. It is also suggested that O’Reilly “re-makes” the news to appeal to his audience that clings to his beliefs rather than facts.[12] Again, just like Jon Stewart, this is another way of framing the news as Lakoff suggests over and over again. Love or hate Bill O’Reilly, he has simply mastered the concept of framing the news to a mass-appeal to his followers of his beliefs."

There are multiple instances of "weasel words" and value judgments, as well as ungrammatical sections. I'm not sure if the section can be edited without deleting so much that whatever remained would be so skeletal as to be completely unenlightening.

On the whole, I feel that the section reads more like a personal commentary than an encyclopedia article, and I propose that it be deleted. 2001:56A:731B:C400:7874:F5A2:5A34:EFEE (talk) 06:44, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Throwback: 2007 Fight with Geraldo Rivera

 * Transcript: http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/04/06/oreilly-and-geraldo-on-illegals.html


 * http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/06/AR2007040602262.html


 * http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Immigration-shoutfest-TV-s-Bill-O-Reilly-2603884.php


 * http://articles.latimes.com/2007/apr/07/entertainment/et-quick7.2

Yoshiman6464 (talk) 04:39, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

The Factor
Should The Factor now get it's own page or should this one be renamed? I'm not sure which one we should do. I do have the references to the new name: Bill O’Reilly’s Name Has Already Been Scrubbed From ‘The Factor’, Fox News scrubs O’Reilly’s name from ‘The Factor,’ says viewers ‘will have a lot of feelings’, and Bill O’Reilly’s Name Wiped From ‘The Factor’ After Fox News Parts Ways With Star. I do not wish to make any mistakes with any changes and maybe the new show should have its own page. I'm just not sure what other editors think. - Kiraroshi1976 (talk) 08:11, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Good sources, this page is currently outdated. Sagecandor (talk) 14:13, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

"Segments" section
I wonder whether the Segments section is necessary. Seems that the section is summarizing the whole series, which was under O'Reilly for a long time. --George Ho (talk) 17:55, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed. No references and amounts to trivia and cruft and inordinate amount of trivial details. Could be worked into paragraph form. With references. Sagecandor (talk) 17:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, I was gonna remove the whole section, but thank you. :) --George Ho (talk) 18:07, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Some other sections
Also, what about other sections, like "Notable guests" and "Parodies"? I thought about renaming "Parodies" to "In popular culture" to broaden the scope, but I welcome other opinions on the sections. --George Ho (talk) 18:07, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Changed from "Parodies" --> "Cultural impact". Also agree with removing anything with no references. Sagecandor (talk) 18:09, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Removed unreferenced info about WP:BLPs. Sagecandor (talk) 18:13, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Unreferenced info on living persons
Info is hereby contested.

This is a contentious topic.

This contentious topic involves controversial events and individuals.

Info is related to living persons, per WP:BLP.

Per WP:BURDEN, info must not be added back into article unless there are references.

Sagecandor (talk) 19:11, 20 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Being listed as a guest on a television show is not contentious. The names qualify "straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge," per WP:PRIMARY.  Removing them per per WP:BLP is an abuse and misapplication of that policy.  It does not forbid factual TV appearances.  --  Wikipedical (talk) 19:27, 20 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I have reverted User:Sagecandor 's sudden removal of guest information from this article. User has said it violates WP:BLP, but the guest information isn't controversial.  Let's discuss here instead of edit warring.  --  Wikipedical (talk) 19:20, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

1. Contains information NOT included in the show.

2. Info is contested and on a contentious topic.

3. Info is unreferenced.

4. Controversial topic, individual fired for accusations of sexual harassment.

5. Best practice is to have sourced material only. Sagecandor (talk) 20:01, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * MOST IMPORTANTLY: Per WP:BLP AND WP:BURDEN, burden is on the user that wishes to add BACK the unreferenced material to get sources and consensus, and NOT the other way round. Sagecandor (talk) 20:05, 20 April 2017 (UTC)


 * The guest appearances are most certainly included and credited in the show, just as guest actors are credited in any narrative TV series, so listing frequent guests in my view does meet PRIMARY. References would be preferable, of course, but relating the host controversy with all other factual info about the show is just ridiculous.  Because Bill O'Reilly is toxic does not mean the guest or production information is now all automatically contentious.  It's a complete stretch to remove facts unrelated to O'Reilly due to BLP- appearing on the show is not damaging to their reputation, it's factual.  --  Wikipedical (talk) 20:10, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * User neglects to mention he removed material not sourced to the show itself, no mention of any episode number, where or when from the show material came from, and user made zero efforts to do any due diligence whatsoever. Sagecandor (talk) 20:20, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Biographical info on the guests in the list with no sources
Where is this biographical info describing the guests sourced to ?

What episode ?

What year ?

Was the biographical info describing the guest mentioned on the program ?

Was it pulled from their Wikipedia article ?

Sagecandor (talk) 20:50, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Unsourced notable guests info

 * Notable guests

The first guest was General Barry McCaffrey, then the Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy (or "Drug Czar"). Over the years, many other well-known political figures and celebrities appeared regularly on the show.


 * Regular guests
 * Glenn Beck, conservative radio talkshow host, founder of TheBlaze, and former Fox News Channel host
 * Lou Dobbs, host of Lou Dobbs Tonight on Fox Business Network; former CNN anchor/commentator; periodically appears at least once a month
 * Medea Benjamin, Code Pink co-founder
 * Tammy Bruce, Fox News contributor, author, talk radio host
 * Amanda Carpenter, national political reporter for Townhall.com; appears on Wednesdays
 * Neil Cavuto, Your World with Neil Cavuto host, Fox Business Network anchor, and frequent business advisory guest
 * Alan Colmes, liberal commentator, syndicated radio talk show host and Fox News Channel political contributor; appears on Wednesdays
 * Ann Coulter, conservative commentator and syndicated columnist
 * Monica Crowley, radio and television political commentator; appears on Wednesdays with Colmes
 * Jill Dobson, news & style editor for Star Magazine
 * Steve Doocy, co-anchor of Fox and Friends; appears Tuesdays on "The Great American News Quiz"
 * Newt Gingrich, former Speaker of the House
 * Bernard Goldberg, former CBS correspondent and media analyst, often appears on Mondays
 * Kimberly Guilfoyle, legal analyst and co-host of The Five.
 * Greg Gutfeld, co-host of The Five and host of  The Greg Gutfeld Show.
 * Eric Bolling, co- host of The Five (has also served several times as guest host).
 * Dana Perino former white house secretary and co-host of The Five.
 * Juan Williams, political contributor and co-host of The Five ; appears Mondays (has also served several times as guest host)
 * Mary Katharine Ham, Internet expert & blogger
 * Marc Lamont Hill, assistant professor of Urban Education at Temple University
 * Margaret Hoover, Republican consultant (often paired with Powers); appears on Mondays; related to former President Herbert Hoover
 * Juliet Huddy, Fox News fill-in anchor
 * Brit Hume, Senior Political Analyst and former White House correspondent
 * Laura Ingraham, talk radio pundit and frequent special guest host; appears on Fridays
 * Megyn Kelly, host of The Kelly File; appears Tuesdays
 * Charles Krauthammer, Columnist for The Washington Post, frequently appears to provide commentary on Talking Points Memo
 * Martha MacCallum, co-host of America's Newsroom; appears Tuesdays on "The Great American News Quiz"
 * Angela McGlowan, Fox News contributor
 * Dennis Miller, comedian; appears on Wednesdays
 * Dick Morris, Fox News political analyst, former advisor to Bill Clinton
 * Andrew Napolitano, Fox News senior judicial analyst
 * Sarah Palin, vice presidential candidate in 2008, former Governor of Alaska, author, and Fox News contributor
 * Kirsten Powers, Democratic strategist, Fox News contributor; often paired with Hoover in segments; appears on Mondays
 * Robert Reich, fill-in host, former Secretary of Labor in President Clinton's administration
 * Tonya Reiman, certified hypnotist; appears Mondays as a body language expert
 * Karl Rove, former Deputy White House Chief of Staff under George W. Bush
 * Geraldo Rivera, Fox News reporter-at-large, host of Geraldo at Large on weekends; appears on Fridays
 * John Stossel, Fox Business Network anchor, former co-anchor of ABC's 20/20
 * Greta Van Susteren, host of On the Record
 * Jesse Watters, Factor field producer (host of Watters World Segment)
 * Lis Wiehl, former federal prosecutor and current Fox News legal analyst; appears Tuesdays (also had co-hosted Wednesdays and Thursdays on O'Reilly's radio program)
 * Bill Maher, host of Real Time with Bill Maher on HBO

--

Per consensus at WP:BLPN not to use the edit history as a form of communication, let's instead work on sourcing here on the talk page, and only move back, with consensus to do so, if and when the WP:BLP info is properly cited. Sagecandor (talk) 13:27, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Unsourced format info

 * Unsourced format info

A producer would research the story and book guests, and an information packet would be produced with possible angles for the host to explore.

For each show, the host, with the assistance of his staff, produced a script with the words for the "Talking Points Memo" and "Tip of the Day" segments, and points of discussion and questions for the guests that would appear on the program.

On February 2, 2009, the show launched in high definition and moved to the studio previously used by the Fox Report.

Chris Wallace, Jesse Watters, filled in as guest hosts.

-

Per consensus at WP:BLPN not to use the edit history as a form of communication, let's instead work on sourcing here on the talk page, and only move back, with consensus to do so, if and when the WP:BLP info is properly cited. Sagecandor (talk) 13:33, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Listing of guests and intricate detail for encyclopedia article
Is it appropriate to list such a large number of guests on this page?

Could there maybe be a "list" page for such a thing?

Is this undue intricate detail for this page?

Would such a thing be noteworthy or encyclopedic about this particular show in 100 years time?

Perhaps instead work such information, if commented on by secondary sources, into a history of the show format, in paragraph format?

Sagecandor (talk) 13:43, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Unsourced cultural impact info
Richards also played O'Reilly in an episode of Mind of Mencia where O'Reilly is a senator in the year 2016.

The show was also spoofed by the TV series The Boondocks; first in the episode "The Trial of R. Kelly" where O'Reilly is shown talking about R. Kelly's latest legal trouble. Later in "Return of the King", O'Reilly is shown attacking Martin Luther King for saying that America should "love thy enemy" and "turn the other cheek", even in respects to the 9/11 attacks.

CNNNN, an Australian comedy show which satirized cable news, featured a recurring segment entitled "The Firth Factor". These segments typically showed Charles Firth, a member of the Chaser comedy team, presenting his opinion on topical issues, often through use of over-the-top comparisons (such as dipping a paper heart in a can of black paint and claiming: "This is how black Saddam Hussein's heart is") and outrageous statements in a parody of O'Reilly and Australian current affairs personalities. The Chaser's War on Everything also featured a segment in its second season where it poked fun at The O'Reilly Factor.

Per consensus at WP:BLPN not to use the edit history as a form of communication, let's instead work on sourcing here on the talk page, and only move back, with consensus to do so, if and when the WP:BLP info is properly cited. Sagecandor (talk) 13:34, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Was able to source and add back to article, for all of above except the CNNNN stuff. Will work more on researching that later. Sagecandor (talk) 23:13, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Dana Perino as presenter
I have completely changed my mind on this issue. Neither Perino nor Gutfeld were ever listed as the show's replacement hosts. They were, for all intents and purposes, guest hosts who happened to host the show's final three episodes. O'Reilly is the show's only presenter, and he should be listed as such (although I still believe that the years of his tenure should be included, since he was terminated).

I have deleted the earlier post due to the senseless feuding that was going on in the replies.

RaymondCHedges (talk) 21:32, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. --  Wikipedical (talk) 02:13, 22 April 2017 (UTC)