Talk:The Office (American TV series)/Archive 1

Minor characters
After two appearance these can be moved, but not before

There is little info anywhere, so I tried my best.

Actors without characters:


 * Madge &mdash; played by Karly Rothenberg &mdash; is listed on the IMDB page &mdash; the woman who works in the loading dock. Plays basketball game.


 * Mr. O'Mally(?) &mdash; played by Charlie Hartsock in Health Care &mdash; probably the company lawyer


 * ???? &mdash; played by Matt DeCaro in Basketball

Characters without Actors:


 * Some older, curly haired woman who shows up in the The Olympics award ceremony and we see her leaving the office at the end of The Fight.


 * Sherry &mdash; played by ??? &mdash; Jan's secretary (voice only)


 * Devon &mdash; played by Devon Abner &mdash; fired in the Halloween episode and takes it badly. He appears in deleted scenes from season 1; can be seen sitting at desk sometimes.


 * Pam's Mom &mdash; that is it


 * Bob Vance &mdash; owner of Vance Refrigeration and Phyllis’s boyfriend

Guest Stars (should we list these?):


 * Carol &mdash; played by Nancy Walls, Steve Carrell's wife &mdash; is the Real Estate agent for Michael's condo.


 * Mr. Brown &mdash; played by Larry Wilmore &mdash; the Diversity Day host.


 * Natural RedHead &mdash; played by Melinda Chilton in Sexual Harassment


 * Mark &mdash; played by Jeffrey Muller &mdash; is this Jim's roommate


 * Stephanie &mdash; played by Colleen Smith &mdash; Jim's roommate's girlfriend???


 * Bill &mdash; played by Ken Jeong &mdash; Asian guy; can't remember role


 * IT Tech Guy &mdash; played by Michael Naughton


 * Sensei Ira &mdash; played by Lance Krall &mdash; Dwight's Tae-kwon-do instructor

--vossman 20:01, 27 October 2005 (UTC)


 * That's a good list, but I don't think it's necessary to list characters unless they are recurring. Jtrost 00:49, 11 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree. I think we may have too many characters on the main page, too. --Jeremy Butler 00:58, 11 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Minor characters are the best part... I am keeping the list on Talk page for just in case they become recurring. All people on the main page have had speaking role in at least two episodes; except Todd Packer, a rehash from last season, so I guess he'll be back and Devon he was fired.
 * --vossman 03:21, 11 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Vossman, I didn't understand that last thing you said about Devon. He's currently listed in the article, but is that necessary? I don't think we ever heard Devon speak before Halloween and while he could come back, I don't think he should be listed until he does. The only thing his listing is doing is spoiling an episode. [edit: Sorry I'm forgetting there's the spoiler warning] --Mrtea 23:58, 12 November 2005 (UTC)


 * If this gets longer I may spin off a page a la Arrested Development --vossman 22:23, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

If you wish to continue the above conversation, please do so at Talk:Characters from The Office (US) --Mrtea (talk)

How specific do we want this getting? Should very minor details such as what Dundees they have won and if they've won a medal in the office olympics be mentioned? Examples of what I'm talking about: These minor details don't actually develop their character, so I think most of this trivial info should be removed. Mrtea (talk) 19:53, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * ...who Michael expects to be good at basketball due to the fact that he is African-American.
 * She is also the winner of the elusive "Spicy Curry" Dundee award.
 * Plays a paper football game known as "Hateball" with Kevin. It is called Hateball because of how much Angela hates it.


 * Agreed. I say, delete material like this.  --Jeremy Butler 13:10, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I created a NEW page Characters from The Office (US) similar to Characters from Arrested Development for the Arrested Development comedy show. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vossman (talk • contribs) 11:07, 19 December 2005

Cast-List Format
Would the cast list look better like:
 * Steve Carell as Michael Scott, the Regional Manager of Dunder Mifflin's Scranton office
 * I looked at a few TV shows here and that seems to be the prevalent cast-list style. See
 * Malcolm in the Middle, NYPD Blue, Miami Vice
 * --Jeremy Butler 12:44, 6 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I like both your idea and what we've got up there right now. I prefer to have a description of the characters' roles along with the actors who play them unlike those other shows. Regarding your example: I think the characters should come before the actors who play them. Something formatted like:
 * Michael Scott, played by Steve Carell, is the Regional Manager of Dunder Mifflin's Scranton office.
 * I guess that's not too different from what's currently there. I just don't like the repetition of the characters' names. --Mrtea 23:18, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, I want to get away from the repeated character names, too. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be a standard for how cast lists should be done.  WikiProject Television is not much help.  Its cast-list format is pretty weak. --Jeremy Butler 01:17, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Haha yeah its examples aren't very uniform at all. That should probably be brought up in that WikiProject... for now why don't we go for something like:
 * Michael Scott (played by Steve Carell) is the Regional Manager of Dunder Mifflin's Scranton office.
 * Are we coming to a "consensus?" :) --Mrtea 04:31, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I think we are! Although we should ask Vossman to weigh in since he's done the most work here.  Vossman?  What do you think? --Jeremy Butler 01:09, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Also, I like the use of parentheses and would recommend deleted "played by" as most readers would assume that. So, things could be shortened to:
 * Michael Scott (Steve Carell) — the Regional Manager of Dunder Mifflin's Scranton office.
 * --Jeremy Butler 01:09, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll agree with the consensus; I just had some things I wanted to get in place --04:32, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Too Many Images?
I love the images of the cast, but Wikipedia is having a very hard time serving them today. It just keeps timing out on me. Is anyone else having this problem? Should we eliminate the images until Wikipedia speeds up? --Jeremy Butler 01:11, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah that's really too bad. Maybe there's some official guidelines about this someplace? The images were loading fine earlier, but I assume the server load is significantly higher during Western evenings. If we do remove them I think it would have to be a permanent thing as this likely won't resolve on it's own. --Mrtea 02:33, 8 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Obviously this is a wikipedia issue. Hopefully this will be addressed globally in the future. I am, of course, for the pictures, because you can always hit stop loading, but will go with the flow. I tried to get small pictures for this reasson. I know this show is new but I am modelling it after the Seinfeld pages. --vossman 04:35, 8 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah, those images are a perfect size and you wouldn't think Wikipedia would have trouble loading them. Mebbe the best course of action is just to keep an eye on it over the next few days.  My concern is mostly for newbie Wikipedia users who might get frustrated with the slow loading and just give up on the page and move on. --Jeremy Butler 12:41, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Region 1 DVD
It seems a bit awkward to me to separate the DVD releases by region. Does this mean that there will need to be headings for regions 2-6 as well? It seems to me that most Wikipedia users will be interested in which seasons are released primarily and secondarily their region encoding. Come to think of it, is DVD release information the sort of thing that belongs in an encyclopedia? I'm not sure. --Jeremy Butler 01:48, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
 * This is the way other television shows have their DVD releases listed (see 24, Friends, and Survivor for examples).  As far as I know there are not other region releases and there are not going to be.  This is a U.S. show so it will probably only be released in region 1. Jtrost 02:20, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of examples of U.S. shows getting other region releases, check the DVD section of amazon.co.uk. For example, both 24 and Friends have region 2 releases, but for some reason they are not listed in those articles. Qutezuce 03:48, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
 * If there is a Wikipedia standard for listing DVD releases, we should go with that--even if it's just a de facto standard. But I'd still argue against including region encoding in the header because (1) it places too much emphasis on the region encoding and (2), as Qutezuce says, DVDs encoded for regions other than 1 are often ignored so why use a structure that pretends to emphasize region encoding? --Jeremy Butler 13:12, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
 * As far as I know Wikipedia does not have any standards regarding DVD releases. I simply formatted these DVD releases just like the other TV shows to stay consistant.  However, the other alternative is to format it like Family Guys's DVD releases.  I really just didn't like the way that the region was part of the table.  It seemed really out of place to me. Jtrost 00:47, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Myspace.com Blogs
Jenna confirms other cast members blog sites: Imposter! There is an imposter Pam Beesley on MySpace! We just discovered someone pretending to be The Office characters and posting. It is true that real cast members keep MySpace pages. The real ones are: Sorry if there has been any confusion. Jenna P.S. Kevin is working on his page now!
 * Angela - http://www.myspace.com/accountinglady
 * B.J. Novak (who plays Ryan) - http://www.myspace.com/bjnovak
 * Toby - http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=28720913

This was in the html comments by the myspace.com blogs: I was just cleaning up the external links section so I wanted to move it here. Also because we've established that "Pam's" blog is legit, and she links and discusses the other blogs, that makes them credible as well. Mrtea (talk) 02:57, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I know Pam's blog is real, because she provides tons of insider info... as for Angela, Toby, and Ryan; it is hard to say


 * Chicago Tribune reports that the blogs ARE real

Cast: British equivalents
I left this on ChicosBailBonds's talk page, but maybe some points in it might give someone some ideas for the article.


 * Hey, just about your adding of the British equivalents to the cast list. I'm not too sure if those really belong there. This article is for the NBC version of The Office- as it's own seperate television series. There's already a comparison of the characters with their equivalents in The Office (this article is about the actual series- not either specific version.) I didn't want to revert your edits... maybe they belong. What do you think?

It could be good, but I think the focus for this article should be on The Office (US), as an independent series. Any input? Mrtea 07:10, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

External links... drawing the line?
I've looked through the Wikipedia style guide for external links and don't really have an answer. What do we list here for external links? There are a ton of fan sites that are popping up and people are going to (and already have) just start adding their sites. So what deserves to be up there and what doesn't? If it's not clarified we'll have a list longer than the article. How does a site qualify as quality, or as better than another? A couple, discussions on the subject. (FYI: Wikipedia is not a web directory, but DMOZ is. A lot of articles have a link to their DMOZ directory page. That'd be great if The Office had one...) Input's appreciated on this one. Mrtea 03:21, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I like to only leave notable websites in the external linkis. I recently did some cleanup of external links in the Survivor article and only left four or five fansites.  I received a reply from User:Hotwiki, who made this website.  He was upset that I removed his website, which looks completely unprofessional.  I also removed Survivor News, which has been one of the best Survivor fansites for years.  However, it hasn't been updated since the middle of last season, so since it was no longer being maintained I removed it.  I left websites like Survivor Sucks, which is by far the most popular Survivor/reality TV message board on the Internet.  I say use your common sense when cleaning up external links.  If it's not a website that you would bookmark and visit frequently, it's probably not one that the majority of Wikipedia readers would find useful.  I hope this helped. Jtrost 03:41, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, good question, Mrtea. I guess, as the style guide for external links says, we should ask three questions about any link:
 * Is it accessible?
 * Is it proper (useful, tasteful, etc.)?
 * Is it entered correctly?
 * But, of course, the gray area is judging whether a link is "proper." Perhaps the best additional question to ask is, does a site "provide a unique resource"?  But, in the end, it'll just come down to common sense and the collective judgment of Wikipedians interested in this page.  So, edit away and if issues arise we'll hash them out right here! --Jeremy Butler 12:47, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, right now we have 3 fansites and 7 cast blogs.
 * I think the fansites are okay as long as they provide interesting content and are continually updated. We are only going to get more links, so we had better figure things out now.
 * For the cast blogs, we could shorten them to one line. I find these very interesting; the cast provide behind the scenes photos and information.
 * --vossman 00:27, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

We've got another fansite: www.theofficetv.com. Should it stay or should it go? --Jeremy Butler 20:29, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I would object. Sites that shouldn't be listed: any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article here would have once it becomes an example of brilliant prose. This one isn't very unique- it's just a small blog. It's similar to Northern Attack but with a quick comparison of the sites you can easily tell which is the better quality site. Mrtea (talk) 23:04, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Would anyone object to removing the Dunderball link? Does it really provide a unique resource anymore? (Especially considering Northern Attack has a forum now.) It does have annoying pop-under ads however.. Mrtea (talk) 04:25, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I removed Dunderball. It had too many ads and no spectacular, original content.  I also removed a comment that the link to TV.com should be removed.  Having a link to TV.com is a norm for all TV show articles here. Jtrost (T | C | #) 13:45, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Hello everybody! I apologize in advance if I am posting in an unauthorized area. I would like to request that OfficeTally be added to the links list. It is unique from other Office fansites in that it lets you rate your favorite episodes. It is constantly updated with quality content. OfficeTally was most recently mentioned in an article by Maureen Ryan of the Chicago Tribune. Thank you kindly for your consideration! Tanster 18:58, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
 * TV.com also allows users to rate episodes. Does this fansite provide any other unique content? Jtrost (T | C | #) 19:17, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I like it. Tv.com has its own episode guide (usually close to NBC but not always), has better actor listings than IMDB.com, and it is pretty standard link on TV pages though it is loaded ads and stupid flash and javascript. --vossman 19:51, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your replies! Jtrost, yes, there is original content in the Tech Notes category, as well as episode quotes (like OfficeQuotes.com), and a pretty comprehensive list of other Office fansites. Lastly, no ads of any kind.  :) Tanster 20:12, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Separate article for episode list?
I think the time has come to give the episode list its own page and put it in the Category:Episode lists. Before long, it's going to take up too much space in the main article and is going to get unwieldy. Besides, there are dozens of other TV shows that handle their episode lists this way. Among the best-looking ones (since there appears to be no set format) are the following--some of which include screenshots from each ep. Now, that's a cool idea! --Jeremy Butler 13:01, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * List of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation episodes -- includes screenshots and writer/director credits.
 * List of The Simpsons episodes
 * List of Friends episodes
 * List of Everybody Loves Raymond episodes (Seasons 1-4)
 * List of My Name Is Earl episodes


 * I like the way the CSI episode guide looks. One day I'd like to have a complete episode guide for this show too. Jtrost 13:21, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The CSI guide is cool. I would definitely support making an ep. guide/list for The Office. I love the screenshots. Another important element, especially for The Office, are the writer credits. A lot of the actors write episodes (notably BJ Novak) and that would be a nice feature-- even if just to compare writing styles, etc. I can't think of why anyone would object with this.. let us know when you get going so we can help, or let us know if you need help getting going, or if you need more advice. :) PS: The CSI article doesn't actually link to its episode list... Mrtea (talk) 23:06, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Alrighty, I've put together a working page for: List of The Office (U.S. TV series) episodes. It is not yet linked to from the main article. I used the List of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation episodes as a model, but made a few changes. Let me know what you think on its talk page. --Jeremy Butler 13:12, 11 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Looking forward to your work

Character names -- no middle names
I propose we keep the character name to firstname lastname (if known) and exclude all middle names for clarity. I have been reverting this, but probably should have some discussion. --vossman 21:24, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree and have reverted some anonymous edits that had put their previously reverted edits back in place. Both those ip addresses now have the note about the revisions so they know why the edits were reverted. If anyone opposes this please leave a message. Mrtea (talk) 02:29, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't see any reason why the middle names can't be on the main page. --anon (unsigned)
 * I don't think they should be listed, mainly for clarity (as mentioned above) and personally I just think it looks ugly. If this above anonymous user feels so strongly about it, I don't think it's worth the keep effort to keep reverting their edits. Mrtea (talk) 02:57, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

The Office (US) to The Office (United States)
Regarding the recent move: I brought my concerns up with the user who made the move, as it goes against Wikipedia's current naming conventions. Here's a link to the note. I was going to just move it back until I realized he or she had been active in some of the discussions regarding acronyms in titles and might have some more insight than myself. Please point me right if I'm missing something. Mrtea (talk) 04:47, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I've moved the page back. Mrtea (talk) 20:56, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

New infobox image
I prefer the original. Agree it should be changed back? Mrtea (talk) 05:48, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed 100%. Jtrost (T | C | #) 13:36, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Title screen images are the norm for tv show infobox's all over Wikipedia. That's the title screen for the Office, that's why it was uploaded. It doesn't make sense for one tv show to have a cast photo and another one to have a title screen. Shows that don't have title screens are probably because no one has gotten around to uploading one yet. HeyNow10029 20:01, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know if not having a title screen "doesn't make sense". It gives the reader a better idea of what the show is about. They see the text, "The Office" in the title of the article. Is there are Manual of Style entry for this or is it just your opinion? Mrtea (talk) 21:42, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * It's his opinion. See my reply here. Jtrost (T | C | #) 21:53, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The trouble with using cast photos as images in the infobox, are the questions that arise. For instance, in a show like ER where the original cast members are all long-gone, what cast picture would you use? A current one? Or a cast picture during the height of the show's popularity? Title cards make sense because they're the one consistent thing that represents a show. If people want to a see a cast picture, it's just a quick scroll down along with all the information they need about a show. Plus, it makes sense that if a person were to go from page to page that there would be some kind of a uniform image in the infobox. HeyNow10029 23:50, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the authors of each article should decide on the image. If you would like to see a standard implemented, go discuss it on the television wikiproject.  If none of the regular authors to this article object, I would like to change it back. Jtrost (T | C | #) 18:16, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Because there is no concensus, I think the best thing to do would be to revert the change for now. If HeyNow10029 would like to push the issue, we could have a straw poll. Mrtea (talk) 18:27, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Latest move to The Office (US TV series)
According to the page that the user who made the move link to, Naming conventions (television), that page only applies "if multiple articles would normally have the same name. If the title of the TV program is the most common usage of the phrase, let it be the title of the article for example The Apprentice or Guiding Light". So it would seem they did not apply Wikipedia policy correctly. And with the previous discussion on this page resulting in people agreeing on The Office (US), I think this page should be moved back. Qutezuce 20:07, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Um, what is with people making huge changes to articles without discussing them first? Just yesterday I reverted another page move. I haven't really looked into whether this change was at all justified, but agree it should be moved back for now. Mrtea (talk) 21:23, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * It does seem that the move was ill-considered, as The Office (UK) was not moved. Qutezuce 21:52, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I also agree. Is there a big US movie coming out that's called The Office? If not, I see no reason for this article to be moved and I vote for it's return to The Office (US).
 * What tf? Move it back. Here it is a month later and I had no idea it moved. Who's the big loser who moved it? BabuBhatt 20:26, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Got moved again. TV Series isn't disambig'ing anything, so why have the extra type. We don't move My Name Is Earl to My Name Is Earl (TV Series), because the name is unique enough. Admins just leave it alone or at least read discussion first. Sorry to get bent out of shape. --vossman 17:17, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Character Template?
Do we need a character template for The Office--a la this one for Gilmore Girls: Template:GilmoreGirls? --Jeremy Butler 15:52, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Great idea. I'll get to work on it tonight if someone else doesn't do it first! Williamnilly 18:54, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Trivia - The Scrantones...
Err I'm going to remove this last bit of trivia. I'm not really sure the band exists. They get literally two hits on Google. We should get a real citation for this one, especially considering Jay Ferguson is officially credited for composing the music. Consider yourself duped! Mrtea (talk) 23:34, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Ya know, I think you're right. It was one of those things where the MySpace looked legit but the minor details didn't but I wasn't sure if the band was being silly or WHAT. I was just waiting for someone to come along and say, "Hey. This is stupid." Thanks! :) Williamnilly 06:45, 9 March 2006 (UTC)