Talk:The Oregon Trail (video game)/Archive 1

Original Floppy, Packaging
I have a copy of the original Oregon Trail on floppy with the packaging, so I could possibly contribute a picture of that if anyone thinks it would be beneficial to the article. I'm actually making a project to breathe life back into the computer with the flavor of floppy drive required to run it. I'm hoping it will run with some sort of DOS emulation of Linux.--132.198.93.49 18:45, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That may be interesting, do you think you could and we can see how it ends up? --Banime (talk) 17:42, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * One year later: Okay, the next time I have access to it.--132.198.252.135 (talk) 05:34, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Screenshot
I'll get a screen shot. --Kryptknight 14:06, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
 * Can you get a dysentery one? It'll help with the part of the article about pop culture Jackpot Den 02:56, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Tombstone Inscription
I added a bit about the often-abused tombstone inscription feature - although I probably didn't do the best job of putting it in, so this is where I read about it.--El Zilcho 21:49, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I expanded a bit upon the origin of the line. I think it is something relevant to the article because I think that at this point many people believe it is a part of the original game (so short are memories and so widely circulated is the ROM image), and so those reading an article about the game may be curious as to where it came from. Lavareef 14:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Was the "Here lies Andy" tombstone removed from this page? It was the best image on wikipedia. :-( - 60.46.212.28 04:09, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I took it out because there wasn't any reference to it. It was just floating around. If there was something significant about it to keep it in I would. In other words, if you (or anyone) can find some factoid, and be able to reference it in the article, then the picture should be able to go back in no problem. Just to show nothing against you and the others that enjoyed the picture, I'll leave it here for the time being. b_cubed 05:27, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Very late replying, but thank you for at taking my comment into consideration. I guess it's only notability is that it seems that many of the surviving copies of Oregon Trail have "descended" from this line, as many players have commented on finding this tombstone in their copies.  Cheers!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.113.194.194 (talk) 00:43, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Typing/Hunting in Oregon Trail
I remember a variation of the game on the Apple IIe where you had to type words on the screen to "shoot" at animals for food. Unfortunately, I don't remember anything else about this version. DrSlump

I remember this version too, and I'd like to find it.

Here is a Basic Integer version for Apple II, in which you have to type numbers instead of words to "shoot". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.78.0.137 (talk) 13:07, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Occupation Choice as Doctor?
The entry includes the following: "The player can choose to be a banker from Boston, a carpenter from Ohio, or a farmer from Illinois. Each profession has different advantages and drawbacks, such as starting money, end game point bonuses, and special circumstances; for example, sick or injured characters are less likely to die with a Doctor chosen."

How can a Doctor be chosen if Banker, Carpenter, or Farmer are the only choices? I'd edit this page now, but I am unsure if later versions of the game include other choices of occupation.

Any ideas?
 * Its a mistake i accidentally left when I revised/rewrote most of hte article. As far as Oregon trail the original is concerened, the only 3 are carpemter banker, and farmer. --Larsinio 21:46, 11 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Later versions had a Doctor though. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.191.17.168 (talk) 02:18, 16 February 2007 (UTC).

There's also the option of a blacksmith... Eenyminy (talk) 01:34, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I think this should stick to the original version where your choice was banker, carpenter, or farmer, and I believe the only difference is the amount of money you start with and the number of points you get at the end. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.26.144.44 (talk) 00:29, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Criticisms
I reverted the edit by 68.98.167.121, returning the criticism section. Since the game was widely used as an educational tool to supposedly show was life was like on "the Oregon Trail," critiques of the game's representation of women and minorities is notable. --mtz206 02:16, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

E.g. the book "Let them eat data" (Bowers), a book concerned with the impact of computers and cultural values on education. A full paragraph is devoted to this game and sums up some educational shortcomings and cultural bias. --Dialecticator 22:00, 21 August 2007 (CEST)


 * The game had no women (at least none explicitly shown) and the 'minorities' (natives) were friendly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.122.63.142 (talk) 18:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, quite a few of the graphics show women pioneers. The natives are, largely, depicted as friendly.  As to the actual addition of the criticism, I have no comment, I just wanted to correct the information provided by the anon IP. Surv1v4l1st (talk) 00:22, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Older versions
There are at least three older versions on PDS disks which were widely available at the time. The game itself goes all the way back to 1972 if I remember correctly but the text versions were circa 1977 or so. I will dig up the exact floppy disk in the A.P.P.L.E. PDS disk collection (from 1980) and reference it. Also ThunderBunny, there were at least a half dozen games that used typing the word bang to play it. Atom20 was another one but you are right. I played Oregon Trail on our PDP-11/4 at Nuremburg American H.S. in 1979 using that method. callapple (talk) 23:57, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I know that there was at least one older Apple II version from MECC, from around '81 or thereabouts; it had the older logo screen upon bootup, and far more primitive graphics. I can't seem to find any evidence for it, though - because who saves old Apple II disks from 25 years ago?


 * I remember that version too...you typed "BANG" to shoot, right? But I can't find any Internet-based evidence for it either. Thunderbunny 00:34, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I actually recall the older version I saw at school. The graphics were much cruder and the game play different.  It was, however, Oregon Trail I.  It must not have been very widely used as I've never seen a reference since nor anything on the web.


 * Yes, there must have been another version around 1981 because I remember being in first grade (1981-1982) when I played it on an Apple II. I know it wasn't 4th grade when I played it. -- Suso 20:04, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I remember playing a version for the TRS-80 written in BASIC. Anyone else remember that or am I just making it up? --60.225.0.88 09:44, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Just as a point, it says a version was released in 1996 in the side bar, however, in the versions list at the bottem of the article the only version released was Oregon Trail II. There is a version released noted to have been in 1991 however. Can anyone check these dates and correct the inconsistancy? --DeMyztikX 06:02, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I also recall the Apple II hunting and graphics being much more primitive than in the screenshots in the article. I believe the hunter was a stick figure in early versions. It is possible I tested beta versions as a student though since I went to school in Minnesota. --BenFranske 02:04, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Why is nothing mentioned regarding chaulking the river??? 68.150.202.252 00:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I just wanted to chip in on this, as I certainly remember an older version of OT for the Apple II series. I would have played it sometime in the years 1983-6; probably at the earlier end of that range.  The graphics were monochrome, and hunting was very different and quite difficult for me to get the hang of.  It was a sort of first-person shooter game, with your (stationary) hunting blind at the bottom of the screen.  At varying intervals, a game animal would come trotting horizontally across the screen--almost like a phantom, you remember those early graphics?--and you'd hit the fire button to release a cloud of very slow-moving buckshot.  If they intersected just right, you got the kill.  This rarely worked for me; I remember being delighted when I saw the newer version in middle school.  I've never been able to find a downloadable version.


 * Also, the earliest versions of OT seem to have been text-only games for TTY and, later, glass TTY. Those were the ones when you hunted by typing BANG in a specified window of time.

--68.218.113.135 20:01, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Another tidbit on the original monochome version(s) - I distinctly remember that your wagon could also get attacked by "Indians," and the hunting minigame would launch, but with Native Americans on horseback as the targets instead of animals. If someone could find a cite or shot of that, it would be rather noteworthy.  This was in the version that used the space bar to fire instead of typing "BANG." The Yar 19:59, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I remember this too, but don't believe it was Native Americans or "Indians." I seem to recall it was more generic "bandits" or "rustlers."  Either way, it wasn't present in the sequel.  I did some googling on early versions of the game, but didn't turn up much.  Maybe someone can contribute some sourced material.  71.92.157.73 (talk) 22:47, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Games in the series
I noticed the below

Games in the series

 * The Oregon Trail — Apple II and Commodore 64, 1985
 * The Oregon Trail — Apple Macintosh, 1991
 * The Oregon Trail Deluxe — DOS PC, 1992
 * The Amazon Trail — PC and Mac Floppy disk and CD-ROM, 1993
 * The Yukon Trail — PC and Mac Floppy disk and CD-ROM, 1994
 * The Oregon Trail II — PC and Mac CD-ROM, 1996
 * Africa Trail — PC and Mac CD-ROM, 1997
 * The Oregon Trail, 3rd Edition — PC and Mac CD-ROM, 1997
 * The Oregon Trail, 4th Edition — PC and Mac CD-ROM, 1999
 * The Oregon Trail, 5th Edition — PC and Mac CD-ROM, 2001

And I have in front of me a CD the reads


 * THE OREGON TRAIL ®
 * Macintosh CD
 * Version 1.1
 * Copyright © 1993
 * MECC and its licensors
 * All rights reserved

Another sight supports this evidence AMG (July 4, 2006)

My CD cover says Mac. The sight shoes an image of PC/MAC on the bottom and I do not know if it was available for floppy.

--E-Bod 23:33, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Mormon Trail
I noticed the later games have the option of traveling the Mormon trail (Nauvoo, IL to Salt Lake City, UT). Should a reference be added?

Ironically, I believe in the first game, it's possible to cross paths with Mormon pioneers. Anyone remember that?


 * At one point, there was a Mormon pioneer talking of Salt Lake City. 209.222.194.205 17:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, where you can "talk" to fellow travelers, at some point, you can talk to a Mormon. 129.237.172.76 (talk) 20:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * At one point, the article did mention that later versions allow you to travel the Mormon Trail. I don't know why it was removed though. Surv1v4l1st (talk) 00:23, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

on emulation
Abandonware usage has not been copyright infringement for a while now. The Apple IIgs has not been sold since 1993 when Apple, Inc. shut down the production line and cancelled all IIgs related projects outright. MECC has not existed since 1999. Obviously, Deathawk has an agenda against the site as he has deleted 11 links which were added by various people and were used as a reference. The site is used by school children all over the globe to play the games that educated a good number of us as well. I agree with DannyRuston on this one. callapple (talk) 23:53, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

ATTN: Deathawk I'm suprised you removed the link to Virtual Apple []. While I think the emulation of existing systems and intellectual property is infringement, we're discussing a game so old you cannot buy it on media that works with any current hardware. Furthermore the hardware the game runs on hasn't been sold in over 10 years. Clearly this is not infringement. If it is, then I would argue that the images in the wikipedia article itself are infringement because they are copies of images on hardware that no longer exists displayed in a format long ago abandoned. If you subscribe to such intellectual poverty, I don't think we can remedy the situation and I suggest we pull the images from the article. I would also like to point out that the emulated version of the game on Virtual Apple is the same version passed around with the Tombstone tombstone. This is not just any version of the game, it is the version specifically mentioned in wikipedia.

In short: Please grow a pair.

Essentially the same reasoning above also applies to Westward Trail, the web based version. It is currently the only modern cross-platform version of the game. I don't see any way how infringement issues could be a factor. DannyRuston 03:25, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, this in particular is not my complaint with the Westward Trail game. Personally I don't feel that a wikipedia article should be the place to 'advertise' random web games. If people are interested in seeking them out they can search via google. I'm sure there is probably some Wikipedia rule to back me up but I honestly won't pretend to be well versed in all the rules that we try to adhere by. b_cubed 06:17, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Party names
From trivia section:
 * "The game is notorious for the ability to create custom inscriptions on the tombstones of deceased party members; this was often abused by schoolchildren to display swear words, insults, or puns."

While I've never seen this game played without a "bitch" or "poopface" in the party, I have to dismiss this "fact" as unverifiable. ~ Booya Bazooka 15:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

As a former student I verify the claim. Although we would use things like "Your butt" and "Your mom" so we could see message like "Your butt has dysentery, Your butt has died." Oh, the halcyon days of youth. TotalTommyTerror 19:37, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I still have to concur that it is unverifiable or at least totally unimportant. --Banime (talk) 05:47, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Wagon Train 1848
Information should be added to the article to note that sometime in the 90s when the Mac version came out MECC also published a multiplayer version called Wagon Train 1848. Wagon train used the Macintosh LocalTalk or EtherTalk network to allow players to interact, trade and make decisions as a team. Watch out where you get information on this version from, information is hard to come by and some sources incorrectly imply that the TCP/IP protocol was supported, it was not, only Appletalk. My personal opinion is that this was one of the best additions/changes made to the program since the early versions. --BenFranske 02:04, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Do you have some resources/links? That would be a great addition.


 * Not much that's handy. As time allows I'll take a look and see what I can dig up but I'm incredibly busy and it may be months (or more) before I can get to it. I can certainly provide some screen shots though it visually looks almost identical to Oregon Trail for the Macintosh of the same vintage. --BenFranske 20:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I added a brief mention and a few sources. If anyone has more detailed information, it would be a good addition. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.191.17.168 (talk) 15:08, 16 February 2007 (UTC).


 * I am in the process of working on more information about this, I've made contact with an original developer and have some history information about Wagon Train in my email box now and will be calling for an intervew when time allows. Once that's complete I'm going to write and publish an article/fact sheet about the program and do a nice section for Wikipedia. I'm quite busy though so getting all that done will probably not happen until the end of the summer. If time allows I may try to do a bit of updating on the secion here earlier... --BenFranske 05:26, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It appears it was reviewed in MacWeek on 16-Dec-91 . If someone can dig that up, we might be able to add the information. 66.191.19.254 15:43, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

country bias
This article doesn't mention that this game was not really available outside of the USA. It even states that 'most elementary school children had access to the game'. This is clearly not the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.186.7.73 (talk) 12:29, 28 July 2007 UTC)
 * that's not true i have friends in south america that played this growing up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.197.41 (talk) 03:49, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Peparoni and chease
Everyone knows what I'm talking about. The pepperoni and chease gravestone on many copies of today's Oregon Trail rom. I believe it is prevalent enough to warrant inclusion in the article, however I'm not quite sure and it sort of borders on importance to the article itself. Any other opinions? I might end up dropping the idea unless I get enough support as I believe it's slightly silly but still important. --Banime (talk) 05:50, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It's not part of the game, but part of someone's port of it to ROM, so I'm not sure why it's relevant. I wouldn't even consider it a meme. -- 70.58.93.184 (talk) 21:22, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Link to emulated version
That link should not be in the article. Not only are there copyright issues (unless someone can find proof it's been released into the public domain), but there is no Wikipedia policy that allows the link at all. See WP:EXTERNAL. Note there there's already been some discussion about this here. Note also the person arguing for the link's inclusion also seems to have a conflict of interest. --UsaSatsui (talk) 16:09, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed on all points. We should not be linking to this, particularly since we have no evidence that it was placed into the public domain. - MrOllie (talk) 16:18, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, (and I don't claim to be a lawyer or know anything about how PD works) since it is on the internet at a .org site, an extension used for not for profit organizations, requiring no sign-up fee, no version of registration, and no software beyond a browser plug-in, wouldn't that make it PD? (In addition to this I am also asking since I am planning to make a wikipedia page of my very own soon on an Apple II game, so I need to know)  TeigeRyan (talk) 03:08, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope. The only way something becomes public domain is by waiting long enough (and I mean about 100 years) or by it being explicitly released.  At least in the US.  It's possible that nobody is able or willing to enforce the copyright (this is usually called abandonware), but the work is still copyrighted.  --UsaSatsui (talk) 09:58, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

what do you want on yer tombstone
peperoni and chees —Preceding unsigned comment added by ManathMagesinger (talk • contribs) 02:27, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Possibly add "Gameplay Abuse" info
I think we should add info that discusses some of the "abuses" of the game that many people did after playing out its original goal. For example, who didn't set their pace to grueling and ignore all party member deaths to get to the end as fast as possible? Or who didn't just stock up on hundreds of bullets and kill 2000 pounds of buffalo for the fun of it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.135.245.202 (talk) 09:24, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I once when I was VERY bored I reduced my wagon party to one person, and stayed at Fort Walla Walla hunting food until the year 1952. By that time my wagon leader must have looked darn silly walking around with a musket when he could have just taken a bus to the Willamette Valley. Xanthis (talk) 06:35, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Conflicting information
At the time of this writing the article contained the following sentences which are a logical contradiction: "Bison were the slowest moving targets and yielded the most food, while rabbits and squirrels were fast and offered very small amounts of food. Deer (eastern section) and elk (western section) were in the middle in terms of speed, size, and food yield; bear were between bison and deer in all three properties. Deer provide as much meat as a bison." The only way this could be logically true is if all animals provided the same small amount of food as a rabbit, which we know is not the case. I will remove the last sentence as from what I remember, it is simply not correct. --85.64.182.103 (talk) 10:18, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Atom 20
In the late 1970s a variant of this game, called Atom 20 and set in a post-nuclear war scenario, was published in Creative Computing magazine. Unfortunately I have no date for the magazine so adding this information to the article might be an issue for verification, but I think it should be mentioned in the Legacy section. The existence of this game can be verified on this webpage which has a little write-up on it. The page claims Oregon Trail was based upon Atom 20, but I don't think so as the Creative Computing issue was definitely several years after Oregon Trail came out. 68.146.64.9 (talk) 17:51, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Oregon Trail (Facebook version) really isn't an educational game
I feel like the introductory paragraph should be modified to reflect the style of the latest version of Oregon Trail on Facebook. The Facebook version is very light on education and contains numerous "fantasy" and unrealistic game elements that disqualify it from carrying the "Educational" label.

Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.232.192.194 (talk) 03:28, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Went ahead and removed educational reference link in header. Examples of "fantasy" elements include doing a rain dance when out of water to get more, iron metal wagon covers (and other odd wagon accessories), and conveniently having someone always be available to fix your problems (but only for cold hard cash). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hpootel (talk • contribs) 02:11, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Legacy
Under Legacy there is a screenshot of Thule Trail. I think this fits but there needs to be some sort of information in the text instead of randomly throwing a screenshot in for good measure. Etineskid (talk)  18:56, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Facebook versions
I changed some of the information about the facebook version. The previous information was actually an older version of Oregon Trail on facebook. Obvious proof is the fact that the reference page was written a few years before the release of Blue Fang Games' version. 142.166.141.206 (talk) 19:02, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

New source for expansion
Detailed history of the game here:. This is an online version of an article from the print magazine; not sure what the date or issue number is. postdlf (talk) 20:55, 30 July 2013 (UTC)