Talk:The Outsiders (novel)

Sodapop's age
Sodapop is a 16 almost 17 small> — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lkz9799 (talk • contribs) 06:55, 16 October 2012 (UTC) \

Socs
I think that "pronounced by the author" is a bit strange wording here, since the book itself says "I'm not sure how you spell it, but it's the abbreviation for the Socials, the jet set, the West-side rich kids." I think this explanation makes it pretty clear that the pronunciation is that of the first syllable of "social" by the text alone; the author's pronunciation is less relevant. 75.72.7.108 (talk) 03:11, 25 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree to this. Perhaps another wording could be, "As clarified by the author..." (13thehappykid (talk) 03:31, 6 June 2016 (UTC))

How old is Bob Sheldon? :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.244.203.48 (talk) 21:45, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Gone with the Wind
I'm not confirmed here, so I can't edit the article, but there's an obvious error with Gone with the Wind having a trailing quotation mark. 75.72.7.108 (talk) 03:11, 25 October 2011 (UTC) gone with the wind old meve — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.255.25.57 (talk) 02:24, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Too short
216.36.17.218 (talk) 02:56, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I feel for an article which covers the film and the novel that this article is far too short and sub-standard in quality. The article should at least include a section for characers, and it's lacking alot of necessary information in the infobox, at least a picture of the book's cover would be a good start. In addition, there's only one source used for this article! I liked the article much better when it looked like . Sure, the plot section is lengthy, but we've improved it since then. If we just return the characters section to this article and make the infobox on the right look more acceptable, I think the article would be perfect.
 * I'm placing an expansion request template on this article until something can be done to expand it.
 * This needs to be divided into different sections... Plot, Characters, Setting... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.125.51.6 (talk) 19:28, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Too many unnessesary edits

 * This is a post for the people who edit "the outsiders", too many unnessesary edits are happenning. Please use the sandbox for testing.
 * Also please randomly revert other edits.&gt;:O Katsuuu!! (talk)

First line of the novel

 * I edited this to replace a scatalogical reference with the true first line of the novel. In the subsequent vandalism repairs, my first line was also stricken.  Just curious as to why?  A stylistic thing?  - Ddsilver
 * Why do we need the "The book was followed by the 1971 That Was Then, This Is Now" at the bottom? It makes it look like a sequel, which it isn't. Should this be deleted?
 * I believe it should be deleted, because it misleads readers to thinking that it was a sequel. Some people already believe it is, we can't have more thinking so, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MargaretMary23 (talk • contribs) 16:43, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Dystopian novel?

 * I do not agree with The Outsiders being listed as a dystopian novel. It is not set in the future and is not science fiction related at all. I think we should remove it from the list of dystopian novels. - Milk 22:33, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I too think we should remove the Dystopian Novel heading. The only characteristic the book could share with a dystopian novel is that it takes place in a rough neighborhood, but if you actually read the wierdest book the neighborhool actually isn't that bad as Ponyboy explicitly states that most of the gang members don't lock thier doors. Deathawk 20:02, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
 * In some ways, it is a dystopian one in that Dallas dies and is pretty well beyond redemption even before that. As well, just because by Ponyboy's standards the neighborhood isn't "that rough" doesn't mean someone else wouldn't perceive it that way. --24.80.119.229 03:53, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Um, out of curiosity, isn't this a book, not a film? As such, I believe it should go under the WikiProject Novels instea of WikiProject Films...  Amalas 21:51, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * There's both a book and a movie. epsilon 04:59, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Sure, but this Wiki article is "The Outsiders (novel)," not "The Outisders (novel+ film)." (13thehappykid (talk) 02:59, 6 June 2016 (UTC))

Plot summary

 * The Older brothers name is Darryl. Not Darry.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:189:102:72C0:509E:C598:10C1:FC5D (talk) 00:50, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Should this summary be so detailed? It's not very encyclopedic and goes into much more detail than one would expect. --Westendgirl 03:56, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. but it is benefitical for stupid people who don't want to read it. plus, its not that detailed. Well, I like how it's detailed. Ace Fighter 02:24, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Can some one tell me what I'm missing? The section on differences between the book and movie mentions things that I have never seen in the film.  For one, Sodapop's girlfriend.  I've seen the movie dozens of times and never picked this up.  Also Two-Bit's confrontation about (or is it with) Johnny's mother.  Are these extended version details or what? Koth93 20:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it's okay for this article to be detailed. It's on the internet so it's not wasting paper and it's useful for people that research these things. Jedi feline 10:16, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Instead of "researching" it, how about actually reading the book? It's not that long. 64.132.218.4 18:37, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It is long, but I read the plot and very important details are left out. Someone had edited it earlier to add these details but they have already been deleted: Darry is seen as just being an angry person who hits his kid brother for no reason (when he certainly isn't) and the part about the trial is completely left out, which is an important part to the ending of the story. I was wondering if there was a reason for this edit by the original writer/another person? As it seems already, the plot is long, but I don't think it would take too much more to make sure the details that count are included.
 * This reads like a 14 year old wrote it for English class. It's full of spelling mistakes and badly-constructed sentences. If I get a chance I'll edit it, but of course everyone else can help a little too.
 * I would have flunked English if I'd written like that at 14 :) But the lovingly detailed physical description of Sodapop is worse. 64.132.218.4 18:36, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It does because it was. S.E. Hinton wrote this book when she was 15 and it was published when she was 16
 * Better now? Good! Spent about half an hour going through everything. You guys are evil, sticking me with that job! Toanyroc (talk) 03:18, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * "When he points is empty gun..." should be "When he points his empty gun..." Can a registered user please fix it?*  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.228.76.162 (talk) 03:22, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * "Ponyboy runs away after Darry strikes him and meets up with Johnny to run away. Ponyboy calms down and wonders if running away would be a good idea." Too many "run away"s. Also, since the sentence has one subject, namely Ponyboy, and the clause ("Darry strikes him") has a different subject, namely Darry, there is some ambiguity in who meets up with Johnny. Suggestion: "Darry strikes Ponyboy, who runs out and meets up again with Johnny. The two start to plan to run away, but Ponyboy then calms down and wonders if that would be such a good idea." 128.101.152.244 (talk) 19:43, 11 May 2015 (UTC)Scot Adams.

Book scan

 * Any chance of replacing the image of the book with a true scan rather than this rip from Amazon.com? The 66% off mark is very distracting. --Geopgeop 10:11, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. --Cbrown1023 01:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
temporary, not sure what's the rule with copyright (but anyway its better than what was before)
 * Pornographic image on the cover as well as some remarks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Abanamat (talk • contribs) 04:05, 20 March 2007 (UTC).
 * I put another picture instead (there was a pornographic one before)
 * I have deleted the vandalism in the article also. Maybe we should ban PRChinaMan as he is the main culprit of the vandalism. Check here for the history. Aranho 11:16, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * So much vandalism over the last few days: I have got it back to the correct version, as far as I can see, but it could do with soeone familiar with the book going through it and checking. Jomunro (talk) 15:18, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The vandalism levels are getting stupid: we may need to make the page semi-protected Jomunro (talk) 17:10, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This article recieves too much Vandalism, thus I recogmend a weekly checkup on this article. I personally keep a Vandalism-free of the article from the year 2008. I will recover this article when neccesary  —Preceding unsigned comment added by KatsuSan (talk • contribs) 04:31, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yup, I totally agree. I'm just looking at the past week's history right now, geez that's a lot of vandalism. Thanks Dbratland for restoring it! '''Maximz2005 (Talk) 06:38, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Motorcycling

 * Anyone know why it has a "motorcycling" tag at the bottom? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.233.107.187 (talk) 19:18, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but it doesn't seem to me at all that this novel is somehow related in any way, shape, or form, to motorcycling. Why is it categorized under WikiProject Motorcycling? I may be missing something, but I just read the book, nothing even close to the topic of motorcycling. I hope this isn't vandalism. '''Maximz2005 (Talk) 03:05, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I've removed the category from the article. If this was an incorrect move on my part, please inform me and revert my edit. Sorry for any inconveniences! '''Maximz2005 (Talk) 06:30, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

15 years old?

 * She was not 15, she was 17! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 143.238.244.158 (talk) 10:24, 8 April 2007 (UTC).
 * She was 15 when she wrote it (or started writing it), 17 when it was published. See sources such as, , and . Some sources say that she was 16 when she wrote it; specifically the amazon.com page description for the book, which many sites tend to copy. This may refer to when she actually completed the writing. Regardless, she was not 17 when she wrote it. MarphyBlack 11:13, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Pronounciation of "Socs"
we are studing it an thought it wassocks, but our teachertold u the right way, plus its how it is in the film.Blacksmith2talk 06:00, 21
 * I always thought it was "socks", and so did my whole English class when we were reading this book. Do a lot of people say "soashes"?  Jedi_feline | Talk  06:14, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * A quick Google search of non-Wikipedia, third party sources all indicate that it is pronounced "soashes", not "socks". See . I have not seen the movie, but I believe the word "Socs" had to have been used at least once, so it can be used as an official verification if need be. MarphyBlack 06:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, because that's the correct pronunciation. But I must admit that when I first read the book in 7th grade, [mumblety-mumble] years ago, I also thought it was pronounced socks.--Shelf Skewed  Talk  06:47, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * "Socs" is short for "Socials", so if "Socials" is pronounced "soashels", "Socs" is pronounced "soashes". My teacher was nailing the "soashes" pronunciation into our heads when we read it. Toanyroc (talk) 03:18, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Not good

 * This may be the most pitiful article on Wikipedia. The talk page is full of people saying I love sodapop, obviously forum posts, and the article has multiple mistakes; wow, this almost meets the criteria for speedy deletion. I fixed 7 or 8 errors (the infobox being one!) yesterday, and have a lot more to fix. I will have to delete all the nonsense on this talk page when I get home. Come on guys, it's wikipedia, not the book club. You can debate whether the cigarettes or the gun started the fire somewhere else. NitrogenTSRH (talk) 15:15, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I deleted all the stuff on the talk page like "sodapop is sexy", now I just have to fix the article...jesus, what is wrong with you people. This isn't a bulletin board. NitrogenTSRH (talk) 21:13, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree 100%. For such an important book, the article is atrocious. Plot summary seems OK, but I was expecting an "influence" or "in popular culture" section.69.60.237.3 (talk) 14:55, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Angela, a briefly mentioned character? Do you even read the books?

 * For your info. Angela is Mark's (Main character of TwTTiN) ex-grilfriend and plays a part in the dance part. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.64.121.36 (talk) 01:54, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No...she's Bryon's ex-girlfriend. Yellowpianokeys (talk) 10:58, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Angela does not exist in the book "The outsiders", please re-read the book before critisizing this sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KatsuSan (talk • contribs) 02:59, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

References?

 * The 2 ALA references are bad links, how do I remove them? 69.14.91.247 (talk) 21:26, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Character sections

 * I tried cleaning up the main character section for Socs, but it's kind of a big job. I tried reformatting and rewording it but it still needs a lot of help. It sounded before like a 12-year-old wrote it and now it sounds like me trying to fix it up quickly. I understand that this book is studied in most middle schools but I think we need to step it up with the quality of the text.
 * Another thing... was Marcia really Randy's girlfriend? I don't remember any mention of that, and it might just be speculation. She was.
 * Maria is Randy's girlfriend. It is proven in the outsiders book. &gt;:O Katsuuu!! (talk) 02:55, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Poorly written

 * Despite the multiple edits, this article is still written poorly. I'm going to copy-paste the whole thing into a word document and start re-writing it. I'm expecting the re-write to take a long while, so it had better not be reverted once I edit the page =D --Thatguykalem (talk) 11:10, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * This book is assigned reading in thousands of US middle and high schools, and students gravitate here to improve the page with what they learned. Short of getting the page protected (unlikely) the most likely way you could prevent degrading the page is to put at least one appropriate citation at the end of every sentence.  Other editors watching for changes are more likely to revert edits made to phrases that have a specific citation backing them up.  Good luck.  --Dbratland (talk) 15:16, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd recommend a translation of the article in the German Wikipedia.87.188.204.139 (talk) 11:32, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Greasers

 * An issue has been raised about the capitalization of Greaser. I really do not think this is a big deal, but it should be discussed here, rather than in edit summaries or hidden comments in the plot.  Does anyone have any thoughts? ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  13:52, 7 April 2010 (UTC)


 * It isn't that big of deal, but it is true. I just looked it up to make sure, and every mention of greaser is uncapitalized. Personally, I think that if everything on the page is to be correct, it wouldn't hurt to change this. MargaretMary23 (talk) 16:14, 7 April 2010 (UTC) MargaretMary23


 * While it may not seem a big deal to you, RupublicanJacobite, to those that are long time fans of the book, this inaccuracy is really annoying. I can not figure out, for the life of me, why you continually change summary to reflect incorrect facts. ScoodDrew (talk) 03:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)ScoodDrew


 * The changes you made went far beyond simply changing the capitalization of Greaser. Your edits amounted to changing the article to reflect your interpretation of the book, which is not acceptable.  In addition, you made the plot summary too long, which is also not acceptable.  Please state here, in clear terms, what edits you think need to be made to the plot, so that other editors can respond. ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  05:33, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 72.201.233.2, 26 October 2010
1)The Socs don't find Ponyboy & Johnny in a vacant lot, the boys go to the park to cool down, where they are found by the Socs. 2)The gun from Dally isn't loaded, it's empty.

72.201.233.2 (talk) 00:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Thanks, Stickee (talk)  02:48, 26 October 2010 (UTC)


 * fixed it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.201.7.54 (talk) 02:10, 19 January 2011 (UTC)


 * In the book, Dallas says "the gun's loaded." (13thehappykid (talk) 03:15, 6 June 2016 (UTC))

Its place in the YA literature field
I'll see what I can do about fixing this oversight, but I'm astonished that there's essentially nothing about the book's place as a landmark in young adult literature. As an English teacher, I've read numerous survey-reviews of the field that identify Maureen Daly's Seventeenth Summer (1942) as the first YA novel &mdash; i.e., written for a teen audience rather than being an adult novel that teens also read &mdash; and The Outsiders as the first in the modern genre of problem novels that makes up much of contemporary YA literature. I'm a little busy right now doing my job, but by summer, I hope to tackle this crucial omission. Also, I get the impression a lot of editing has happened in the plot summary section, without anyone's removing the "overly detailed summary" tag. If anything, the opening parts of the summary are less developed than they should be, proportionate to their treatment in the novel, but I'll leave that for a while. We'll whip this thing into shape yet. Lawikitejana (talk) 14:46, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Controversy
I replaced the "Controversy" section that was once a part of this article. It had been removed, but I feel that the controversy of this book is extremely important and therefore merits its own small section in the article. I re-wrote the section a bit so that (hopefully) it's more well-written than it was before, and I replaced the old references with new, more reliable sources. Hopefully doing so will help the "Controversy" section remain a part of this article. If not, I tried my best, and I take full responsibility for re-adding it even after someone deleted it. Sweet Brunette (talk) 02:53, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 21 December 2012
The edition listed as the first, with ISBN 0670532576, is NOT the true first edition. ISBNs were not used in the U.S. prior to 1970 (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/In_what_year_were_ISBN_codes_first_placed_upon_books). Later printings often give only the original copyright date, as is the case with this edition.

50.105.152.114 (talk) 19:58, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * This is not actualy listed as being the first edition. I have amended the text to make that clearer. Thanks for your suggestion. -- Dianna (talk) 16:28, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 January 2014
The last name of the character Randy Anderson is misspelled "Adderson."

96.255.179.151 (talk) 20:58, 25 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: While the credits of the 1983 film list his name as Randy Anderson, his last name is in fact Adderson in the novel. -- El Hef  ( Meep? ) 00:36, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 June 2016
change Johnny's age from 14 to 16

Lucy.mcdd (talk) 14:07, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done st170e talk 13:12, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 September 2016
108.35.228.155 (talk) 23:44, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

The gang isn't called the greasers, the group of people is called the greasers. The gang has no name.
 * If you can back this up with a reliable source (best probably to cite a passage in the book that claims this?), we can make the edit. — Andy W. ( talk ) 23:29, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Reception/Legacy
It is strange that this entry has nothing on reception and legacy of a book that is really iconic in the field of young adult fiction, assigned reading in classrooms for decades, and a big influence on a lot of writers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.243.147 (talk) 00:52, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I had never heard of this book before today, when I read an article telling about its influence and claiming that it ws the best selling YA novel ever (What about H. Potter books?). I came here to see more; how-ever, almost two years after the above comment, there is nothing about reception/legacy/impact.  The article that led me here is https://timeline.com/outsiders-fifty-years-teenager-9a06e2dc91ba . There is also an article from 2007 in New York Times, which says "Long credited with changing the way Y.A. fiction is written, Hinton’s novel changed the way teenagers read as well, empowering a generation to demand stories that reflected their realities." (https://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/books/review/Peck-t.html)  It also has a Cliff's Notes book.Kdammers (talk) 06:04, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

Darrell is not 20 years old
Keith Matthews (Two-Bit) is said to be the "oldest of the gang" at 18 and a half years old. Darrell is said to "look like he could be 20" but he isn't directly stated to be. He has to be younger than Two-bit and older than Sodapop, who is sixteen going on seventeen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.118.112.227 (talk) 22:12, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 January 2019
Plot Ponyboy cutis is the youngest brother of 3 brothers his parents died in a car crash and the oldest brother Darry is left to care for him and the 2nd older brother Sodapop. They are all greasers and are constantly getting into rumbles (gang fights) one-day ponyboy gets into a fight with Darry and runs off with his friend Jonhhy they get into an encounter with some Socs(socials, rich kids) and Jonhy kills one of them they then run off to an old abandoned church where a fire starts and Jonny gets hurt and eventually dies of his wounds Onebigboy (talk) 19:29, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. cymru.lass (talk • contribs) 19:40, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2020
bob also tried to kill ponyboy 209.250.178.123 (talk) 15:57, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 16:44, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 September 2021
The 'In popular culture' section reads quite clumsily and is difficult to understand. I recommend changing 'two factions, The Greasers and the Preppies/Preps, who both have major roles in the game, are based on The Outsiders’ Greaser and Socs factions respectively' to 'the game's two main gangs, the Greasers and the Preppies/Preps, are based on The Outsiders' greasers and Socs factions respectively'.

Additionally, the sentence following the above says 'he' without qualifying who said pronoun is referring to. An article on the Bully Fandom site attributes a quote referencing The Outsiders to the character Norton Williams. Additionally, this page from the Fandom site acknowledges that there are more references to The Outsiders in the game. While not a primary source, I hope both of these pages provide enough evidence, especially considering the 'In popular culture' section has no sources linked yet anyway. As such, the sentence can just be changed from 'On occasion, while starting a fight with a Greaser, he may say "Heads up, Ponyboy"' to 'Additionally, numerous Greasers in the game quote or reference The Outsiders during gameplay.' I do not see a need to be specific but I have seen specific references mentioned on other Wikipedia pages so it is at the editor's discretion.

Lastly, it seems many reports of vandalism are from 2008 and 2009. As many before me have pointed out on this talk page, the article should be longer considering its place in the curriculum of many schools and how influential a novel it is. Perhaps making the article no longer semi-protected would benefit its growth. It might be worth trialling the opening of the article to public edits for a short time and monitoring it for any unwanted changes. 210.50.218.18 (talk) 05:43, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2023
I would like to make changes because some information is wrong Outsiders43106 (talk) 17:24, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. DonQuixote (talk) 17:31, 4 March 2023 (UTC)