Talk:The Penultimate Peril

Possible Sept 11 Connection?
Has anyone else noticed the similarities between the ending scene of this book and the events of september 11? It seems rather unlikely that an author could both write about a large, occupied building being burned (and destroyed) AND include a quote that specifically mentions skyscrapers falling without having 9/11 in mind. In keeping with the style of the other books in this series, this is a connection that children may not easily notice but an adult does immediately. Any opinions?


 * I don't think so. I mean, let's face it - buildings have been falling down in pop culture for eons. Think Fight Club. Think The Towering Inferno. Think the Tower of Babel. I'm sure that when Snicket wrote about the destruction of the hotel his mind would definitely have remembered September 11, but I don't believe that he wrote it to reference that in any way. Daydream believer2 05:31, 8 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The Tower of Babel didn't fall down; Jericho fell down. — the Man in Question (in question)  21:17, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Possibility of Title being The Lousy Lane
The Lousy Lane is a pretty unlikely name for the book, even if it does end up taking place there. Only one book (The Reptile Room) has been named after a place actually mentionned in the book. Most of them have taken place at alliterative locations, but none other has been named after it:
 * The Lacrymose Lake : The Wide Window
 * The Prufrock Prep : The Austere Academy
 * The Mortmain Mountains : The Slippery Slope

Furthermore, even those that have been named after the location use an adjective to describe it rather than the name itself:
 * The Heimlich Hospital : The Hostile Hospital
 * The Caligari Carnival : ''The Carnivorous Carnival
 * The Gorgonian Grotto : The Grim Grotto

I am aware the "lousy" is an adjective and that it accurately describes the lane, but given the above it seems unlikely that it will be used. Besides, at one end of Lousy Lane is the city, where books I and VI have already taken place, at th'other end is Uncle Monty's, which has been done, and in the middle is horseradishes. Not much room for a book there.

The theory can still be mentionned, but the paragraph about lousy lane should prolly go--Signor Giuseppe 19:41, 19 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I have partially restored the Lousy Lane paragraph. I agree with your comments above, and think that it probably is not Lousy Lane, but really we have no way of knowing. I have tried to clarify why some people might think it might be though. The description paragraph is a bit long and could be shorted to the last sentence perhaps, the reason why it was like this, is that this article used to be called Lousy Lane before it was renamed, so I put it in as a description of the location. Onco_p53 22:09, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Most importantly, you left my revisions of the letter-games paragraphs, which I definitely appreciate. As for the long quotation from Book II, I posted here to say "it should prolly go" and heard no objexions. Not that that's so bad: if it took it actually being deleted to get your attention, so be it. I still think a long paragraph describing a location from a previous book is quite silly. The notion about horseradish being the cure for mushrooms is good, but the apple trees and Tedia? There are most unneccesary.--Signor Giuseppe 14:51, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

The Book Title & Cover has been revealed!
Unofficialy. Don't look if you don't want to know. Spoilers! The back cover is readable here: Spoilers!
 * I'm not sure how official they are. Don't post them on the article (for a start you'll ruin the fun for the rest of us!)  smurray  in  chester (User), (Talk), (Recent Contrib) 19:51, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I won't put it in, wouldn't I have done that already if I planned to? I'm not a spoilerer :) I'm confident that the picture is real though, absolutely confident. Btw, I'm User:Occono, sorry I ain't logged in.


 * I'm sorry. I was more talking to other people who would no doubt copy paste straight from the website (probably surrounded by lots of !!!!!!!!!!! and ALLCAPS)  smurray  in  chester (User), (Talk) 14:44, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

The question at hand really is how we should change the article in light of this information. I should be mentioned but since it isn't from an official source, it can't be trusted totally. --Cel e stianpower hablamé 07:50, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, It was right after all, so we should merge the article with The Penultimate Peril now. -Occono

When book title is revealed ...
... the page will be alot smaller, as the suggested titles will go as will the Evidence section. Anyone got any ideas as to what can be added when title is revealed? Squidward2602 08:50, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Probably, the cover will be revealed, and therefore the importance of the front Illustration (and possibly the rear blurb) can be explored. Smurrayinchester 17:13, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

When the book is published, this page should be moved to it's offical title. I think the two covers should go to the Evidence section.

All of these IP editors seem to be adding lots of random things in a nonsensical and unclear way to this article so I've now added the cleanup tag. It needs a major restructure and a separation of fact, opinion and guessing. --Celestianpower hablamé 22:24, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Bolding/Italics for suggested titles
Should the suggested titles be bolded or italisised? I believe not - it makes it messy and cluttered. However, if consensus is to have them bold/italics then I'm fine with it. --Cel e stianpower hablamé 15:59, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I believe that bolding of the suggested titles is good, as it makes them stand out, and I don't think it makes the page look messy or cluttered... --209.122.225.118 19:55, 2 October 2005 (UTC)CG
 * Why do they need to Stand out ? --Cel e stianpower hablamé 20:01, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Justice Strauss is left behind?
It was my interpretation that since the building trembled just as she let go, both she and the boat went tumbling to the ground. Unfortunately, she didn't have that nifty sheet thing that Violet did. Besides, it burned to the ground, so she's more than likely dead anyway. I'm not going to change the article unless someone confirms this. -- Doug teh H-Nut

Yes she is dead since pg. 349 says: " With a cry of pain and frustration, Justice Straus let go of the figurehead, and the building trembled again, sending the judge tumbling to the ground........" Without a doubt, she would have fallen to her death.

Maybe it meant she fell to the the roof? I wrote a story where I used "I fell to the ground" meant that the character fell down, but stayed on the roof.

But that would've been incorrect. If someone is to fall to the ground, they're probably on the actual ground. Otherwise, he would've said something like "and Justice Srauss fell" Othatzsokewl (talk) 19:41, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Who is dead?
Where any characters (Poe, Esme, Carmelita, Strauss, etc.) officially named as dead in the book, or any hints given? I don't have the book yet, so I just want to know, because I've seen the page read about deaths and then edited to read no named deaths. Squidward2602 19:36, 19 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I edited it. I was cleaning up the style in general, and when I came to that part I decided a slight accuracy improvement was called for as well. Lemony Snicket tells us that the Baudelaires never met Esmé, Carmelita or Mr. Poe again. We are NOT told that any of them (or anyone at all) is dead. -- Michael, 19 Oct 2005


 * "Mr Poe was not fated to die by being shot with a harpoon. At least, not that night"  smurray  in  chester (User), (Talk) 20:46, 22 October 2005 (UTC)


 * True, it does say that. However, logically, that just means he doesn't die that night from a harpoon shot. It doesn't necessarily mean he will die from a harpoon shot on some other occasion. I still think it's open. -- Michael, 23 October 2005


 * Well, according to Snicket's writing style, it does. Random the Scrambled 12:49, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Cover illustration
yes someone died in this book So, now that the book is out, who are the people on the cover? The one on the left is Kit Snicket, of course (the two pencils in her hair); I haven't a clue about anyone else. -- Michael, 19 Oct 2005


 * I'm not 100% as to whether it is Kit. It looks kind of like her, but the image of her on page 19 looks quite different. Plus, Kit never enters the hotel. The guy with the pipe could be the mysterious person from chapter 10, but again, he looks different to the inside illustration.  smurray  in  chester (User), (Talk) 20:45, 22 October 2005 (UTC)


 * After looking back at the Chapter 2 picture, I'm even more sure it is Kit. They definitely look like the same person to me, just from different angles. The man with the pipe definitely looks different from the Chapter 10 man, though, I agree there; besides, the latter is smoking a cigarette, not a pipe. -- Michael, 24 Oct 2005.


 * In fact, it's almost definitely Kit. Compare the front cover with the book's first illustration.

I removed the mention of who the cover characters are, on account of it's original research - and dubious at that; many of the supposed characters are only linked by gender, and the person who's supposed to be Hugo didn't resemble the actual illustration of Hugo within the book. Kit can be re-inserted, though, if there's consensus enough, but I'll revert any others (aside from the Baudelaires, obviously).

Sebald Code
I've taken the bit about the Sebald Code on page 67 out of Plot Notes -- firstly because it isn't a plot note, and secondly because the exact same thing is already stated in Interesting Facts. -- Michael, 21 Oct 2005


 * It says that this is one example; I can't find any others. Are there any?  smurray  in  chester (User), (Talk) 20:46, 22 October

It doesnt say that.it says:"i cant tell if you are associates or enemies,please respond".(this isnt part of it)Please respond --Cc november 14 2005

Sir
Is Sir really on the "Dastardly side of VFD"? I might have missed something while reading, if someone could verify that he is, in fact even in VFD, that would be great.


 * Sorry, I think that entire section is rubbish and should be deleted. Anything new we didn't know before can go on the V.F.D. page. Sir is not known to be in V.F.D. at all, and the same goes for quite a few more characters mentioned there. Also, I know Hector might be the third Anwhistle sibling because of the G-H-I thing, but we don't know for certain that I'm aware of. -- Michael, 22 Oct 2005


 * Ok, I'm in agreement. It seems useless, like you said, since there's already a section for that in V.F.D.. I'll take it down, unless there are any objections to put it back up.

Link back to "The Nameless Novel"?
Now that all the dust seems to have settled (and I finished the book JUST before getting Handler to sign it on the 22nd, literally, I was in the line at Neuqua Valley High School), shouldn't there be a sentence and a link back to "The Nameless Novel" game that was going for a couple of months? --JohnDBuell | Talk 17:55, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

New Interesting Facts
"On the first illustrated page after the dedication is a man with a cig in his mouth. He is the same man who appears on the first page of chapter 10(page 237). Also in the first illustration he has an envelope in his hand. It says J.S. Hotel Denouement.... That must mean he is the mysterious J.S. " I disagree, he could have been sending the letter, as opposed to receiving it. - jules_su

Chapters 8 and 9
''The picture in Chapter 8 show several men caring tools, yet the chapter never mentions anything about it. '' Well, I assumed it was the Seven Dwarfs, who are mentioned on the second page of that chapter. What is the illustration for Chapter 9 about, though? Anyone worked that out? -- Michael, 25 Oct 2005


 * It's right on that page, about goats eating dandilions. - jules_su

after that it explains and it talks about a goat

Plot
Sorry, but the section about the plot is a mess. It reads like a bad acid trip. TheMadBaron 05:55, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Merge from The Nameless Novel
Per the suggestion of some people on #wikipedia, I have proposed that The Nameless Novel be merged into this page. 90% of The Nameless Novel is not encyclopedic, and the remainder could be added to this page in a paragraph. As I know very little about the subject, I will wait to see if anyone else can do this merge before attempting it myself. --Constantine Evans 20:22, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

THE PROPER NAMES
This is what Lemony Snicket called them, and this is what they shall be called:

1. The Bad Beginning| 2. The Reptile Room| 3. The Wide Window| 4. The Miserable Mill| 5. The Austere Academy| 6. The Ersatz Elevator| 7. The Vile Village| 8. The Hostile Hospital| 9. The Carnivorous Carnival| 10. The Slippery Slope| 11. The Grim Grotto| 12. The Penultimate Peril| 13. The End

Who's Saying Otherwise? ~HTES --Count Olaf 09:00, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

A possible connection?
Someone might ask Handler, but I think the odd trial where "Justice is blind" and the people in the court are blindfolded may have been influenced Ed Rosenthal trial in San Francisco that ended early in 2003. Keith Henson 17:05, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Foreshadowing
I want to make sure what the foreshadowing for the next book is in The Penultimate Peril's last picture. Any ideas ? --AirLiner 22:47, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Bats. But that would be for THE BEATRICE LETTERS, so...who konws?


 * I don't think they resembled bats so much as birds, and it's got to be them as they're the only thing out of place; my guess is that they're eagles and Handler thought at the time he'd be including the eagles directly in the plot of The End. The whole series is packed full of retcons anyway, so it doesn't matter - the letter to the editor at the end of TVV mentioned a lamp mistakenly sent to Hal that never actually appeared in the book, and that's the lightest of examples.

Uh, could you list other examples? They might be, you know, intresting inclusions....anyway, I think he just didn't want any clues at all about the end except for the hints towards the island in the books.
 * The date of the schism almost certainly changed at one point - in the UA, it's when Jacques and Lemony were young adults, if not adults, but in TPP, Kit (Jacques's twin) was only four years old at the time - Jacques comes very close in the UA to outright saying that Olaf started the schism, but given that he was in Lemony's class in TBL and thus the same age, it's very unlikely that he started the schism, given that he was that a less than four years old. 217.42.65.113 17:41, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ThePenultimatePeril2.JPG
Image:ThePenultimatePeril2.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:26, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Book the 12
When I read it, it was all messed up. It stopped and repeated thirty of the pages I had read up to the page I read then skipped a LOT. I think it may have been a printing error, But I cant tell.

Count Olaf

With all do respect,

Tay Baudelaire

A person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.218.12.255 (talk) 01:44, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Just buy another Othatzsokewl (talk) 19:38, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

The blind Men
Do you not think that the part of the book where Handler refers to some poem called the blind men ant he elephant or something like that changing the elephant to a reindeer should be stated in the cultural references ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.202.222.142 (talk) 03:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * What does a reindeer have to do with anything? — the Man in Question (in question)  21:18, 13 June 2010 (UTC)