Talk:The Plague (novel)

Tarrou and the Spanish Civil War
I can see no reference in the original French edition (word searching an online edition) to Tarrou having fought in the Spanish Civil War. It is Rambert who is said to have fought there. If there is a reference to Tarrou which I have missed, please cite with a page reference.Ntmr (talk) 16:45, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Kafka and The Trial
I can see no reference in the original French edition to Kafka or The Trial (word searching an online edition). Is La Peste being confused with another Camus novel? If there is such a reference, it should be cited with a page reference.Ntmr (talk) 16:45, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Mistake?
Right before it gives a description of the different parts, it says that there are five parts. However, only two "parts" are given, making me think that some of the parts were thrown together a little haphazaradly. Should this be fixed? Minnyhaha (talk) 13:35, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not that the article was done haphazardly; it's that revision and expansion was never finished. The decriptions of parts three through five are there, but are much shorter in the article.  Whereas part one (and most of part two) have several full paragraphs describing action and events in the novel's first two sections, the remaining three sections have very little text in the article at all.  This is athe result of the Novel COTM, when the first two sections were greatly expanded, but no such expansion has yet been completed for the other sections. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:37, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Suggested links
An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the The_Plague article, and they have been placed on this page for your convenience. Tip: Some people find it helpful if these suggestions are shown on this talk page, rather than on another page. To do this, just add to this page. &mdash; LinkBot 00:52, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * These are all mentions of the Plague at the beginning of a sentence, so that they appear in the text as "The Plague". None seem to be worth linking to except the human condition. --EncycloPetey 19:26, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Author / Narrator
I think learning that Rieux is the narrator counts as a spoiler. - Unregged reader —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.64.158.68 (talk • contribs) 18:20, November 29, 2006

Damn you!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.91.48.204 (talk • contribs) 05:58, December 19, 2006

I would agree completely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.94.38.240 (talk • contribs) 23:43, February 9, 2007

After death of children Paneloux stop implying that all who die becouse of plauge were sinfull. What's more it is suggested that he himself might died for other reason that plauge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.205.211.71 (talk • contribs) 12:59, May 2, 2007

"While Camus gave no opinion of the act in The Stranger itself, in the conversation the participants seem to have an entirely negative view of the subject."

The book was 'written' from the perspective of the dr. Rieux not Camus. Actually there are a couple of chapters where Rieux mentions that he looked at the journal of his friend Tarrau. But nontheless, the opinions within the book are not those of Camus.

Fair use rationale for Image:Theplaguefg.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 07:07, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism
deleted vandalism about smoking weed and playing xbox, but can't remember my password to sign in Unitariansangha75.203.115.230 (talk) 03:07, 25 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, but you didn't restore the text the vandal deleted. I have done this. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:19, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

An Arab City
One more critical comment is worthy of inclusion: the fact that there are no Arab characters in the novel and only one passing reference to the Arabs near the beginning. Although Algeria had a greater French presence than the other French colonies, Arabs were the majority in Oran as elsewhere. Dynzmoar (talk) 19:59, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Although it is remarkable that there are no Arab characters in the novel and only one passing reference to the Arabs, it is not correct to say that Arabs were in a majority in Oran. The French language page which correlates with suggests, with a citation, that, in 1948, Europeans outnumbered Arabs in Oran, which had the largest proportion of European inhabitants of any city in Algeria. Although a reference is given, it is difficult to reconcile the various figures given in the English and French timelines for the total population of Oran.Ntmr (talk) 23:22, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Title
Wouldn't this be better off to go to Plague? Logic suggests that people (in the western world trhe most) would be looking for Plague not this book, or more specifically the 1300's plague.--Ssteiner209 (talk) 14:14, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I suggest we move it to the plague (novel), and move the black death to here. BillMasen (talk) 14:55, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I disagree. The Plague is the exact title of the book in English; people looking for the diease are looking for a topic, which normally would not include the definite article as part of the title.  Black Death is also a perfectly valid, understandable title.  "The Plague" as a disease is not just one disease, but several.  This is explained on the disambiguation page Plague; the Black Death is only one specific instance of the Bubonic Plague.  There is no strong reason to move these pages. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:28, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Which is more notable? A book or a biological, and natural, problem?--Ssteiner209 (talk) 18:46, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * people might type "the plague" to find the disease, because we use "the" to name it. You can say 'x died of the plague' or 'x died of syphilis', but you can't say 'x died of plague' (without the "the") any more than you can say 'x died of the syphilis'. BillMasen (talk) 22:47, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I definitely agree with encyclopetey for a few reasons. First, all of Camus' novels (save his first which could feasibly be translated with a "the" from the original french) have "the" in the title. Changing the title of this article to simple Plague would be on face incorrect. Second, on searching for the plague in google or wikipedia's search engine, one comes across a large disambiguation page where this is listed under culture as a novel by Camus. There would never be any confusion, nor could anyone searching for the disease click on this article by mistake. Sas556 (talk) 01:11, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * re: BillMasen: People might type any number of things.  None of the disease articles I could find have pages beginning with "the", so making this article a disease page beginning with "the" would actually make it less like the other disease articles, and potentially harder to find. Plague is already a disambiguation page, and this article points to that page on its very first line.  And I have to disagree with the statement that "you can't say 'died of plague', because I get 932 hits for that exact phrase in Google books.  Apparently, that phrase is indeed used without the definite article.  By contrast, the novel by Camus is never titled Plague in English; it is always The Plague.  --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:09, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Well I can't remember what I thought in MArch, but I don't think that the article should be moved :). BillMasen (talk) 17:15, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Plagerism?
If you look at the links on the bottom, and read some of the text, it is an exact copy. SADADS (talk) 03:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That does appear to be true. I've reverted the changes for parts one and two, because there was originally text for those sections that was not plagiarized.  The remaining three sections will need to be rewritten. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:48, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Original Research
While much of the textual interpretation is engaging, it is not verifiable. Because these sections deal with subjective literary or philosophical interpretation we need an expert source. We either need to verify these sections or remove them entirely. Worthingtonjohn (talk) 15:36, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you read the previous section? --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:40, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Assessment as Top importance
The article doesn't cite any references on the literary significance of the novel to justify a Top importance assessment.--Sum (talk) 15:00, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * In pretty much agree, however several sources point to it being a prime example of existentialism, so it merits pretty large importance. I am somewhere on the wall, and wouldn't object to the article being High class, Sadads (talk) 16:58, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Allegory
The section on allegory seems to me to over-emphasise a secondary aspect of the novel and to make the work seem contrived artifice rather than art. Emphasis is required on Camus' insistence that the novel carry his metaphysical ideas of the absurd as its central driving force. In which regard I note with some concern the section on Absurdity, which is only one line long and draws an unfortunate comparison to nihilism, which clearly demonstrates a lack of understanding of Camus' most fundamental philosophical views, as expressed in the Myth of Sisyphus. I have been told by the Wikipedia thought-police that I am unable to edit the article without engaging with its authors, so I welcome your views. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2407:C800:4101:CB01:2C02:CB50:AF5:E04A (talk) 14:28, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Currently the last paragraph of the introduction includes the phrase "the material often pointedly resonating as stark allegory" but in the rest of the article the only mention is in #5 "In the popular press": "The novel has been read as an allegorical treatment of the French resistance to Nazi occupation during World War II.". Since numerous online (and probably printed) sources state it's an allegory or discuss to what extent it may be shouldn't the body of the article have more on the subject? Mcljlm (talk) 17:30, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Removal of 'Themes' section
At the risk of extreme presumption on my part, I removed totally the 'Themes' section which several people here have noted reeks either of either plagiarism or original research. My own reading of that section was that, whilst interesting, it overly attempted to tell people how to interpret the novel. The links to other scholars', with my admittedly paltry summaries, attempt to fill the gap to send interested readers to more in-depth studies which at least admit to being the points of view of the particular writers. I honestly decided that complete removal was better than trying to tone down the non-neutral nature of the text. Cheers, DJRafe (talk) 23:22, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Cottard's suicide and the police
I would question whether it is correct to say that Cottard has committed a crime by attempting suicide and fears arrest. It is viewing his actions through the lens of the Common Law (ie Anglo-American Law). Suicide was a crime at Common Law and continued to be one in England and Wales until 1961; so attempting suicide was also a crime. But Algeria - and in particular the three coastal departements, which were an integral part of Metropolitan France - was subject to French Law, and since the French Penal Code of 1810 (part of the Code Napoleon), French Law has not treated suicide as a crime. It is clear that "le commissaire" was bound to investigate Cottard's suicide attempt, but it is surely wrong to infer that this was anything more than an "enquete" (inquiry) (p 37: all page references are to online: http://anthropomada.com/bibliotheque/CAMUS-La-peste.pdf). Cottard clearly does not like the Police (p 38), but we are told that he is involved in smuggling (p 132), and we are later told that he fears arrest and imprisonment because of an old matter which has been dragged up (p 149). This does not appear to be a reference to the suicide, which had occurred recently. Unless any editor is able to substantiate why Cottard might fear being arrested for suicide, the statement should be amended.Ntmr (talk) 17:59, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Agree, and in the discussion around p149, it's said that the crime he has committed isn't murder but something serious, which contributed partly to his suicide attempt. Don't forget to be bold and make changes yourself. 81.111.45.250 (talk) 09:31, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Daniel Defoe's A Journal of the Plague Year
My edition of La Peste (1949, a reprint of the 1947 First edition) has a single quote from Defoe (in translation) which precedes the five parts. What is the basis for saying that epigraphs follow the five parts? Ntmr (talk) 12:07, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Medical malpractice in The Plague
The New England Journal of Medicine has an article by Perri Klass, a doctor and writer, about the medical errors in The Plague that she noticed while teaching a course on medical humanities. She asks, "Why didn't you give sulfa drugs?" Sulfa drugs were widely available since 1937 and effective against Yersinia pestis, which causes plague. (The antiplague serum is not very effective.)

Klass says that Camus was writing a novel of pessimism, existentialism, and absurdity, but he ignored the reality of sulfa drugs, the hopefulness "of successfully treating a bacterial infection that had long been devastatingly untreatable, placed on the positive side of the balance." Camus was writing a work of fiction, but he was making the world seem worse than it was, by ignoring the victories of science.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMp2119103 "It's Hardly Credible" - Medical Readers and Literary Plague Perri Klass N Engl J Med 2022 Jun 16 386(24):2257-2259. doi: 10.1056/NEJMp2119103. PMID: 35687048

––Nbauman (talk) 03:23, 16 June 2022 (UTC)