Talk:The Portsmouth Grammar School/Archive 1

General talk
The orchestra did not play the brandenburg concerto:


 * There are six brandenburg concerti
 * The String orchestra rather than the symphony orchestra played it, the article refers to the symphony orchestra

I suggest that more is quoted from the ISI inspection report in the appropriate places. Please be more objective and consistent.

(could people stop putting themselves in the alumni section)

Benjaminstewart05 19:37, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Matters of factual discrepency
Is the pass rate for GCSE 98% or 100% as published by the school (bearing in mind, the school is bias so will only take the past say 5 years into account) How far back should/can the average for the wikipedia article go?

Benjaminstewart05 21:26, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

slight problem; i am in year 12 and i know roughly how many get chosen for prefectcy, and your numbers are wrong. there are more then 20 prefects each year (and the number is rising) or have you never actually bothered to notice. it seems this thread could've been written by the administration, it seems too well worded and one sided to be the work of a student. i suggest that ben (if that is the real author) heeds some of the criticism and makes it slightly less pc and reflect the true nature of the place, which is rather different then the image the school projects. (Pompey-lad 20:50, 26 May 2006 (UTC))

Not a prospectus
This article is not a prospectus for the Portsmouth Grammar School, to this end, phrases such as "the tour was enjoyed by all" can not be included.

Benjaminstewart05 09:01, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
I would ask that vandalism is not put on this article (or any article). It is immature and silly.

Benjaminstewart05 08:45, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia/PGS blocked on school computers
Well done Ben! You managed to get the school to block this lovely wikipedia entry on the school computers. This is entirely your fault. Take shame from this Ben, it will not be the last time. A permanent black mark on your school record. Serious.

Stop caring so much
It is unrequired Ben. You do not need to maintain this page and be the gaurdian of it against the 'vandalises'. Why, i have half a mind to report you for vandalism since you did not set the Portsmouth Grammar School wikipedia entry up but feel you have the right to edit out comments you deem as 'uncyclopedic'. Either stop editing everyone elses input out or stop your own input. Thank You

Please sign
Any users wishing to contribute to the talk page should sign off, otherwise their arguments hold no weight.

Benjaminstewart05 17:45, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Recent vandalism
All those involved in the recent vandalism should be ashamed of themselves.

Benjaminstewart05 17:45, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Blocked on School computers
Just stop vandalising

Benjaminstewart05 17:45, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Apology for lost information
I apologise that in the revert, very small amounts of "useful" information were lost. This was for the greater good and any information which people feel must be represented must put that information on the article.

Benjaminstewart05 19:35, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Ben Stewert
Ben is an OK guy once you get to know him

wikipedia
To the person who mis-spelt my name: I suggest you visit What Wikipedia is not and find out that wikipedia is infact an encyclopedia, NOT an experiment in anarchy or an experiment in unregulated free speech. Wikipedia is edited so that it is a comprehensive ENCYCLOPEDIA, not a forum for free speech and vandalism. Wikipedia is the place for objective and factual information, not opinions held my minorities placed as fact. That is wrong and I suggest that you not only consult What Wikipedia is not but also other wikipedia guidelines such as Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, policies and guidelines, Five pillars, Etiquette, and Talk page guidelines. I suggest that you stop being so childish and find somewhere else to put your comments. Once again, please sign off.

Benjaminstewart05 17:09, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Latin, Music and Clutter
My edits to the music section keep getting classed as vandalism, which I apolgise for, but it wasn't intended as so.

Firstly, its PRAEMIA VIRTUTIS HONORES. Not Preamia. Please.

I just feel that the listing of all the music groups WITH descriptions, in the school is tedious, and makes it look like the most important thing about the school. I think its great that the groups are mentioned, and even the more prestigious ones described briefly, but I don't think there's any real need to describe each and every music group within the school. If you feel the need to do this, then we should give each extra currcicular aspect of the school the same treatment - for example list all the sports teams and results of every single fixture and match.

Also, if the "Gothic" band you're (Benjamin) referring to is the one with Sam McClean and co., could you please not refer to them as "gothic" until you have researched exactly what "Gothic" music is. Their band name is "Pinstripe Aquatica", and if you wish to categorise them into a genre, put it as "experimental metal".

May I suggest a simple layout for the music section:

"Instrumental groups" as a subheading of music, with a short list of the groups, such as Swing band, Concert Band, and Orchestra

"Choral Groups" in the same way, listing Chamber Choir (with description of achievements", Madrigals, CHoral Society and Gospel Choir

"Small and Student-Run Groups" - Listing African Drumming, Flute/Clarinet groups, the award winning six-hands, and bands such as Uberac 9 and Pinstripe Aquatica as examples of the SEVERAL OTHER student-run groups.

Chamber Choir - brief description of achievements, include the fact that teachers also take part.

Anishagupta 17:36, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Pinstripe Aquatica
It was not I who put the "gothic" quote up, but rather Ben West.

Benjaminstewart05 07:21, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't me - I seem to remember it was Alex.

Benedictwest 21:21, 01 May 2006 (UTC)

Music
I think the music is fine as it is. It places importance on all the groups. If anything there should be a more comprehensive section on sport - but alas - I am not the one to do it.

Benjaminstewart05 07:23, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it does give them all importance. Do you think I could change the layout ouf the music section without changing too much of the information, and if you don't like it, you can change it back? I'll show you what I have in mind. Its just, the way you've laid it out makes it look like, say, the Madrigals group is just as important as Chamber Choir. I think it would give a more accurate impression of the school if things like Chamber Choir were shown to be more prestigious, with the smaller groups being more recreational. But anyway, I can show you my proposed layout?

Anishagupta 08:40, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, please do.

Benjaminstewart05 18:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Free Speech
Finally, after 3 months of post deleting and the near banning of myself for no reason we seem to be finally getting some degree of free speech on this discussion page. Mabye from now and onwards only material which is of a lewd, rude or otherwise derogatory nature will be removed and we can start to see levels of group contribution increasing. Here's hoping. I also believe Anisha should go straight ahead and make the changes she wants to, if they are not seen as positive then a decision can be reached between users as to what the Music section should look like. However, I am sure (knowing Anisha's design track record) that her idea will be outstanding.

Pirate Pete 17:29, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Expell Vs. Permanently Exclude
Although permanently exclude is more PC, the term used within the school and generally accepted by the school is expell - So this should be the word used. Benjaminstewart05 19:27, 14 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Without having looked into the page history: the current version is indeed horribly pov. Aecis Mr.Mojorisin' 18:15, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Uberac 9
If you are looking for anything on Uberac 9, it is not allowed its own article on wikipedia proper, nor is the link to the article on my talk page allowed in the article. So please click here - Uberac 9 to view information on Uberac 9. If anyone has any queries about why it is there rather than on wikipedia proper, please see the associated discussion here Benjaminstewart05 10:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Boring
This page is so poor right now! Far far far too much emphasis on music when the school offers so much more. We do not need a detailed description of every little group that goes on. Please sort it out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TedTheRed (talk • contribs)

Part of the point of Wikipedia is that you add the details you know about and others do the same; there is bound to be some imbalance in the early days of what is a remarkably long article for a school on Wikipedia. Even St. John's College, Oxford, which has produced the Prime Minister as well as the First Minister of Wales, two Archbishops of Canterbury and a saint, has a much shorter article.

Andrew J Henderson 12:51, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Told you so
See, someone else agrees with me about the music section. It makes the page dull. This page isn't a detailed description of the school, more a concise one. Anymore information on music and you might as well not *have* a music department at PGS, as one would be able to experience it just through reading the page.

And I don't see anything too POV about the music section, or have you already changed it?

Ben, its a good music section, there's just too much of it. --86.4.162.83 22:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Where's the objectivity?
This article is really nothing more than an promotional tool for the school, especially the music department. The detailed list of music groups is really a rather self indulgent move from the author, who must be involved with department. To include some groups that are so transient makes a mockery of the whole thing. A short list of some groups, with seperate entry (if you feel it's really necessary) would be more appropriate.

Also, the statements about Timothy Hands are verging on the lascivious and lack any objectivity. As an ex pupil of the school, although acknowledging the material benefits he has brought, many people I know feel he ripped the soul of the school with his faux, touchy feely, new labouresque style of management and marketing. To say he has brought "enormous improvements to school life" is an overstatement and just the feelings of the author. I would love it if the page was edited to include my & other's valid viewpoint, but knowing Dr. Hands's attitude to any criticism online is usually follwed by a solicitors letter I doubt very much it will happen.

--Gjcsouthsea 08:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I know - after my exams I will clean it up. Benjaminstewart05 18:33, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Personal detail of the school
I believe that quotes such as: "At least two pupils were asked to leave during the academic year beginning in September 2005, and several suspensions have been administered." are un-necessary and feel that this information is not important for the public to know. If you would like to include this quote, out of common curtosy if nothing else, you should at least ask the people who were "asked to leave". Next thing you will be naming the people mentioned above.


 * As I think it's you who's written these last few points - and you have the same IP address as someone who edited Benjaminstewart05's userpage and userboxpage (thus you might be Ben Stewart?) - I think it's ironic that you pick up the authors of this article on matters of accuracy: try looking up "curtosy" in the dictionary (try www.dictionary.com). Yes, that's right - not just one, but two spelling errors (unless you actually meant 'The life tenure that by common law is held by a man over the property of his deceased wife if children with rights of inheritance were born during the marriage.' Did you?)


 * I think that you didn't.


 * Incidentally, I actually know well one of those who was asked to leave and know fairly well two others: the person I know well wouldn't mind to have it on here. The vast majority of those in the school know about it already: why not everyone as well?


 * As far as the POV bits go (granted, it's overly biased) why not add a conflicting POV: Wikipedia's supposed to include every point of view, not just a definitive, 'correct' point of view. Where something isn't fact, it can never be perfect.


 * Anyway, we should talk more on this matter...


 * Benedictwest 19:22, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Not me. Benjaminstewart05 16:47, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


 * How strange... then who?


 * Benedictwest 20:19, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

At least get the school's name correct
May I please point a fairly elementary and major error: the official name of the school is actually "The Portsmouth Grammar School" as opposed to "Portsmouth Grammar School" as stated in the article. At least do the correct research about the school before writing an article about it.

So many problems with this article
Since this article is entirely about music, it might be good to get it right. First of all "Clarinet Quartet aka "Rob's Fantastic Four" - This is a quartet formed from the some clarinettists in the school." makes no sense. Also why don't you talk about what the concert band is, as opposed to what the concert band was.

Replies to the above
--- Benjaminstewart05 16:55, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) The people should probably not be mentioned as that is a very small matter which really isn't appropriate.
 * 2) Mentioning that some were expelled gives a rounded view of the school as opposed to the "official" view.
 * 3) This page needs renovating and this will be done after my exams.

Moved!!
Yes, that's right everyone, your favourite biased and uncontrolled school article has moved to The Portsmouth Grammar School! But don't worry; everything is safe! Benjaminstewart05 16:30, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Stop deleting things
Ben stewart, if you hadnt already noticed wikipedia is about free speech for all and sundry, not just you. There are 1200 pupils at the school and im sure some of them want to post about their school without you deleting it and treating the school page like you own it.- Ben Olive-Jones


 * Em.. actually Wikipedia is not about free Speech - it's about providing information that is a) of note b)is verfiable and c) is NPOV. --Charlesknight 21:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you Charlesknight, whoever wrote that, I suggest that you consult the guidelines of wikipedia. Benjamin stewart05 -) 20:21, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Surely Wikipedia is about the collaboration of many in order to get a representative article on a subject. Ben you need to accept that there are other views present, and for this item to be representative the article needs to recognise them. By preserving the correctness of the article you are actually forfeiting the npov nature of it!

The bottom line is this - all articles need to include information that is verifiable and of note. I haven't been following this article for a while but I will stop in and try a provide a neutral viewpoint. --Charlesknight 20:27, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Nothing's changed..
I see we still have the huge amount of information about music here then. It really really needs to be edited down and more things about the school discussed other than every little group that nobody in the school has ever heard of let alone anyone else.
 * I removed much of this kind of information as it's either POV or non-notable or both. Unfortunately it's all been put back on. Information such as prefects' badges and musical ensembles with no national recognition is does not warrant mentioning in Wikipedia. Dancarney 22:19, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Above is largely irrelevent
The above is largely irrelevent. It barely corresponds to the article as it is now - anyone looking at this would simply be confused. Benjamin stewart05 -) 21:51, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Good Schools Guide
I notice that most other articles about public schools begin with an extract & description from the Good Schools Guide (see Sherborne School, Eton College, Bedales School etc.), most of which seem to be fairly accurate and insightful. I wonder, does anyone have the most recent guide (2008) from which a description of PGS can be provided for the introductory paragraph? WhoAmI2009 (talk) 21:08, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Notable Past Students
In an interview on Radio 1 this morning Fred Dinenage has denied that he went to the Grammar, stating he went to a school in Brum instead. So it might be benificial to assertain where we got that malinformation from.

The April 2008 complaint about lack of citations seems strangely misplaced - given that virtually all these short entries are references to independent Wikipedia articles. Septuagent (talk) 06:18, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Neutrality
I don't think that this can really stay in the article, as it is clearly not neutral: "Dr. Hands has done much since his arrival for the school, he has enlarged the school and improved enormously all aspects to school life." --65.29.77.73 05:18, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Page Archived
The issues raised in previous discussions have been resolved so I have archived these discussions. Any further comments naturally go below. Visium 07:45, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Notable
this isn't notable, and reads like an advert to persceptive parents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.102.218 (talk)
 * I have to disagree, with some expansion and work this could be a very good article. Deletion would also defeat the objective of the Wiki Schools Project, as the majority of articles it deals with are of this type, and more notable education establishments articles are with other projects, such as Wiki Universities Project. Camaron1 | Chris  16:26, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It doesn't work like that. especially since wiki isn't an advertising service. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.102.218 (talk)
 * Yes, but that does not mean every article that even slightly reads like an advert needs to be deleted. Unless the article is very un-notable, it should be cleaned or merged. Camaron1 | Chris  16:33, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Assessment
I have assesed this article, the feedback given was: ''A strong and well structured article. However, lack of references and problems with NPOV need to be resolved for the article to get a higher rating. Also, some pictures and expansion of less detailed sections would be good.'' Camaron1 | Chris  20:18, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Revert tag edit war.
There appears to be an anonymous user with a dynamically assigned, variable, IP address 82.26.98.237 -  82.26.110.9  -  82.26.111.152  -  82.26.99.28  -  83.26.102.63  -  82.26.106.254  -  82.26.107.31  -  82.26.102.218       to name a few. Who has for some reason, either simple mischief, dislike of the city of Portsmouth England or its educational establishments or some other reason not apparent, decided to repeatedly call by one method or another for the deletion of a set of articles. South Downs College (Portsmouth) Mayfield School (Portsmouth) City of Portsmouth Boys' School The Portsmouth Grammar School Portsmouth High School (Southsea) a subdivision of Portsmouth St John's College (Portsmouth) City of Portsmouth Girls' School Priory School (Portsmouth) Similarly this user has recently made changes to the main Portsmouth page by unlinking Highbury College, Portsmouth College, South Downs College and Havant College Admiral Lord Nelson School, City of Portsmouth Girls' School, King Richard School, Mayfield School, Milton Cross School, Priory School, Springfield School, St Edmund's RC School, St Luke's C of E VA Secondary School and City of Portsmouth Boys' School. In addition as, user Simon S Sumpton (since blocked) this user seems to have created diverts for Admiral Lord Nelson School (Portsmouth) King Richard Secondary School (Portsmouth) Milton Cross School (Portsmouth) Springfield School (Portsmouth) St Edmund's RC School (Portsmouth) St Luke's School (Portsmouth). It might be suggested that the user is attempting by a series of guerrilla actions to use Wikipedia policies and procedures in an attempt to get administrators to remove all traces of many if not all educational establishments in the Portsmouth area. While the standard of some of these articles is poor, their removal will not encourage those who have an interest in them to make the necessary improvements to bring them up to an acceptable level. Deletion would also defeat the objective of the Wiki Schools Project, as the majority of articles it deals with are of this type, and more notable education establishments articles are with other projects, such as Wiki Universities Project. Information. ISP NTL a British ISP has a block of IP addresses from 82.0.0.0 to 82.31.255.255 with addresses 82.26.96.0 to 82.26.111.255 assigned to the NTL branch at Winchester in the county of Hampshire (the same county as Portsmouth). -- Drappel 16:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Merge
I am against the proposed merge of articles suggested it would cause a loss of information in many cases and an overloading of the main page. Notably a similar set of proposals was made by an anonymous user to disrupt the Portsmouth page and those of its schools information is here and also here -- Drappel 21:12, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Information vs. Advertising
As ever with Wikipedia, I stumbled across this page looking for something else. I disagree with the opinion that it's not notablee. If a school founded in 1732 with a rich and varied history isn't notable, then neither are many of the other schools featured in Wikipedia. However, at present it's a bit of a mish-mash of information, not all of it of great quality. I'm surprised that a school that treats its public image with such importance, and which had such an early involvement in IT, hasn't made more of an effort. What should school entries on Wikipedia be for? A good question. The Wiki Schools Project has some ideas, many of which aren't heeded here. A lot of the entry reads like an advert. Some of it is out of date; the reference to Andrew Motion, for example, dates from March 2006. Some of it seems to reflect a personal bias; while Music is an important part of school life, so are many other things. Is someone actively maintaining the entry? I wouldn't want to barge in and step on toes. Having said that, lack of time will probably prevent that. Disclaimer: I'm a (non-notable) alumnus. And the reverted edits about Mr Blewett may be libellous, but I sympathise with their creators. -- Drfoop 21:48, 28 June 2007 (UTC)