Talk:The Railway Series

The Fat CONTROLLER
In all the books I read as a child Controller was spelt Comptroller. I know the language is being Americanised but can we at least draw the line at The Fat Comptroller? - (JM_Butler not signed in) 194.145.134.17 16:10, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * As far as I know the Fat Controller was always the Fat Controller not a Comptroller. Is Comptroller an americanism??? Penrithguy 16:36, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Whether or not this is a legitimate Americanisation, the character's name was always The Fat Controller (except of course when he was The Fat Director :P ). None of us will stand by and let this be changed. Gonzerelli 20:41, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * No, it is not an Americanism. It was the standard UK way of spelling a person who comptrolled something. (e.g. Comptroller of Taxes). I was given a book from The Railway Series in the 1970s and it was spelt thus. I was confused when I went to school and saw a teacher using the modern spelling. Jm butler 18:23, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * It may be the standard UK way of spelling, but in every Railway Series publication I've seen it is spelt 'Controller'. In fact, the only other time I've heard the term 'Comptroller' was in the Simpsons episode where Lisa gets the cheat notes from Nelson and gets a grant for the school. In short - the character's name is 'The Fat Controller'.Thehalford 14:40, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I have many of the Railway Series books from my childhood and in every one of them it is spelt Controller, and I always remember it as such. Have never ever seen it written as Comptroller, although that is a legitimate English word in other contexts. Hyperman 42 (talk) 22:47, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

I remember him being Sir Topham Hatt, but that, of course, is a slightly famous Americanism. Thomas the Tank Engine is on Netflix where he is Americanized as Sir Topham Hatt, and in most of the subtitlles he is refered to as the Fat Controller. Not once in my life have I heard the word comptroller, it sounded like a strange typo or misspelling to me. However, acoording to my editing window spellcheck, it is the only "comptrol-" related word that fits. But then again, many strange words have a red squiggel under them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.67.169.206 (talk) 01:16, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Characters - Railway Series or TV Series
The difference between Railway Series characters, and TV Series characters is fairly clear. There are characters who are solely Railway Series characters, and others which are solely TV Series characters.

Further, with many characters common to both series, there are differences in the characteristics. As a very basic example, Bill and Ben do not have numbers in the TV Series, but they do in the Railway Series.

Please be clear about whether characters discussed are from the Railway Series aspect, or the TV Series aspect. Gonzerelli 11:24, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

(PS: For reference, the TV Series characters are covered in the following article: Railway engines (Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends).)

Book Cover Images
A number of images of the covers from The Railway Series books are already present on Wikipedia, and have been used to illustrate articles. These images can be elusive, so those already found are included below, for copying as required.

EdJogg 11:40, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Book cover images located:
 * Mountain Engines, filename xxxx (see Culdee Fell Railway)
 * Duke the Lost Engine, filename xxxx (see Duke the Lost Engine)
 * Wilbert the Forest Engine, filename xxxx (see Wilbert the Forest Engine)
 * Thomas and the Fat Controller's Engines, filename [[Image:0434969117.01.jpg]] (see Christopher Awdry)


 * EdJogg 14:14, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * No longer a problem - these images now have a home of their own!!
 * See: List of Railway Series Books -- EdJogg 09:37, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It is extremely important to realize that these images are copyrighted. They are allowed to be uploaded under the Fair use exemption. This only allows the images to be used on a page that is directly related to the image. Using them on any other page (e.g. this talk page, a user page) breaches copyright and opens Wikipedia up to potential legal action. Please do not place these images anywhere other than the main main article about the book concerned. Thanks, Gwernol 12:40, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Massive Lack of Artwork from "The Railway Series"
I find the lack of artwork from The Railway Series quite frustrating when browsing these articles. I think it is particulatly annoying that a character link from "The Railway Series" page points you at photographs of TV model trains (it is just my humble opinion, but someone interested in the books may have absolutely no interest whatsoever in the television programme).

Is there a reason for the lack of artwork? I have a complete set of The Railway Series inlcuding a 1940s (first?) edition of "The Three Railway Engines" (with the crude looking early artwork from William Middleton) and I would be more than happy to scan these images and any images from any of the other books (I am a particular fan of Dalby's work) if it would help the project. I think I may still have the Johnny Morris Decca LPs in my loft and will have a look now to see if I can did them out and photograph the artwork.


 * I am not familiar with the copyright restrictions on using Railway Series illustrations. I believe the book covers are fair enough, but the illustrations within the books I have no idea about. I'd like to suggest you contact a user named Gwernol about this, Gwernol has proved very helpful and quite knowledgeable in the past on these kind of issues.


 * Thank you for your interest. And, you can rest assured that the TV Series pictures will be removed from Railway Series pages :) Gonzerelli 11:16, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


 * In reply, you can't simply scan all the illustrations because they are copyrighted. In general copyrighted images cannot be uploaded to Wikipedia. However you have a very limited right to make fair use of certain specific copyrighted images. Please read Wikipedia's fair use policy for details. In general for books you can upload a scan of the book cover for use on one article that is directly about that book. No other images can be uploaded from the book, and the image cannot be used for any purpose other than to illustrate the article about the book.


 * Personally I agree that the book images are much better than screenshots of the TV series, but we simply cannot upload any further images unless we get written permission from the copyright holder - presumably HIT Entertainment. Sorry, Gwernol 12:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Is the Sodor picture necessary here? Perhaps it could be replaced when we can get some book covers uploaded? This page is for the series of books after all. Mdcollins1984 16:32, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, if we ask HIT Entertainment, they'll probably just give us the COMPLETELY incorrect Island of Sodor image seen in the new TV series Interactive Segments ;).

Well done :)
Well done to everyone who's contributed to bringing this article up to its current standard in my absence. The job's not finished yet, but you can feel satisfied with your efforts thus far.

You are really useful Wikipedians :) Gonzerelli 12:16, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I have added an illustrators column to the books table and done a general tidy up of the formatting. I thought it useful to be able to see which artists were originally responsible for the appearance of the various characters, so by incorporating them into the table it is simple enough to read across the rows from the characters column to the illustrators one.


 * For book 18 I listed Gunvor Edwards first and Peter Edwards second, since she was the one who got the commission and started the work, but for subsequent books I swapped their names round to reflect the fact that Peter took over the work.


 * Phew! That's enough coding for a while. Ricadus (talk) 17:09, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

The Railway Stories - the books in audio format (request for help)
The Railway Series books have been released as audiobooks in several formats: 7" vinyl on the Delysé label; 12" vinyl on the Decca label; and audio cassette on the Argo label. (See The Railway Stories for details.)

Unfortunately, I only have a precious few of these recordings (and none from Decca, yet) so there is a lot of missing information. I have bolstered the information thanks to some contacts on eBay, which has helped. But there are still many holes to fill.

So, if you have examples in your collection, could you please see if you can fill in any gaps? NB - please do not guess the stories contained on any particular recording - they may not follow the book order exactly.

EdJogg 13:39, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * You probably aren't going to read this but I've found a collection of them on YouTube. One of them is on a channel called NewController01, and the other is on a channel called The Railway Series Storyteller, and the latter even includes the Forwards to each of the stories. Triviatronic9000 (talk) 04:02, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Book formats
I was thinking that this page needs a paragraph of the layout of the books. As I don't have any originals, I can't do this at present. The sort of information I was wondering was the fact that each book has 4 stories in it, its small unusual sized hardback format etc. Maybe some information about the publishing history... Mdcollins1984 16:27, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * You poor deprived soul :o) How can you cope?


 * This had occurred to me too. The unique format was a major factor in their success, as discovered to their cost by (HiT ?) when they tried publishing them in a slightly different form using cropped in-line images.  They were not a success.


 * The problem is that in addition to the 'original format' books, the stories have been released in other forms and collections too. There is an argument that all these should be covered as well.


 * The details of the published books should be included on this page (or a separate subpage if it starts to get out-of-hand). I made a start last month by including the 'first published' date in the table of books, but I don't think any more columns should be added to that table.  Also, watch out, at least Henry the Green Engine had five stories...

EdJogg 14:12, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Railway Series Books
What I want to do is create pages about a description of the Railway Series books each, with a link of each book leading to its own page, with a description. Is this okay? --imdanumber1 01:54, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I believe User:HonestTom is already working on such a page. It would be more efficient and effective to have all of the books in the one article, not having individual pages for individual books. This is to save on superfluous content, and having an excessive number of articles. Will check this out with HonestTom tho. Gonzerelli 10:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Issues?
Someone added a multiple issues template to the article recently, with the edit summary (NO refs!!!!!.

My initial assessment is that none of the four issues identified in the template are valid, either now or when the template was posted, nor have any of them been discussed here.

The one issue I see is that inline citations are lacking. I guess that's what the editor meant by the (also inaccurate) edit summary. Andrewa (talk) 18:13, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Marriot or Marriott?
Both spellings occur here at paragraph 6. Google shows almost everyone else says Eric Marriott, including this source but not this one. Art LaPella (talk) 14:37, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Should this article have a "Criticism / Controversy" Section?
Should this article have a "Criticism / Controversy" Section?

To modern norms, there are some parts of the books, as originally published, which may be problematic or offensive.

For example, my early dated edition of "Henry the Green Engine" uses the "N" word in a way that would be outrageous if written today (I will transcribe printing details and upload pictures of the relevant page if needed for proof).

IF people started picking at the text and pictures (which are of a time and culture), I am sure there will be a number of other points of criticism that should be acknowledged to form a fully balanced article.

I'm not confident in just adding a section and the first example without a discussion of interested editors, hence kicking off a discussion here on talk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:B378:AC00:53C:A1B0:455B:F06C (talk) 00:32, 3 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Not sure. The offensive language in 'Henry the Green Engine ' was modified in the 1972, after a bit of fuss had been made politically. To be fair, it was a language usage of its time, and though not ideal (better words could be found to compare the boys colour to), it is not particularly racist in as much as it is not derogatory, any more than observing that Black people have a black skin colour would be racist (not technically accurate, but not racist).
 * The issues in Henry the Green Engine are already covered in List of books in The Railway Series, and since they were later corrected, I don't think they deserve any greater coverage elsewhere. Apart from minor inconsistencies, which you get in most books (especially in illustrations), there isn't much else, as far as I can see, that would go in such a section. Anything else that you can spot? WT79 (speak to me &#124; [//xtools.wmflabs.org/ec/en.wikipedia/WT79 editing patterns] &#124; [//xtools.wmflabs.org/globalcontribs/WT79 what I been doing]) 08:44, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * No because there were only two that I can find: the one you mentioned, and one of the fat controllers (can't remember which one at the moment) using a curse word when he finds out that's he's been ripped off in regards to Henry's design, though I do wonder why Awdry included that word in a children's book. Maybe they were just more risky back then Triviatronic9000 (talk) 13:16, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Triviatronic9000, I think they were just more openly racist. Drmies (talk) 14:44, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Racist? How would it be? I didn't know there were black people in the books. Triviatronic9000 (talk) 16:51, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * There aren't. The N-word was being used as a simile, as with the word "soot" in the phrase "as black as soot". -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 05:55, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * A simile? That makes no sense. Triviatronic9000 (talk) 13:31, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't see how that is racist, using black as soot. What book can I check out as an example of the phrase? Triviatronic9000 (talk) 23:52, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * As noted above, the problem is not the phrase "as black as soot" (and it is a simile), the problem is with the version of that phrase as it appeared prior to 1972. If you have a Kaye & Ward copy of Henry the Green Engine, check the last line on page 60 (since the publisher changed to Heinemann, page numbers no longer appear). Or if you want it set out more explicitly, see List of books in The Railway Series or List of characters in The Railway Series. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 17:55, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah. Yes, I can definitely see why that's a problem. Why did Awdry have a problem with the kids having sooty faces? Unless I read that wrong Triviatronic9000 (talk) 21:45, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Awdry didn't have a problem. Henry had a problem with boys (who were all drawn by C. Reginald Dalby as white boys) throwing stones, and so took revenge: Smoke and steam and ashes spouted from his funnel. They went all over the bridge, and all over the boys who ran away as black as ... . Insert an appropriate noun to complete the simile. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 22:36, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh. Thanks. I have never read a Railway Series book sadly, but I wanna get that collection of all of them from Ebay. That's why I asked so many questions. Triviatronic9000 (talk) 23:43, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Maybe a short section (a few lines only currently) as a "way pointer" to the Henry book in List of books in The Railway Series, and as a prompter for a wider discussion (to attract more eyes to what may be problematic, I'm perhaps not in the best place to do that with my background) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.72.50.120 (talk) 09:53, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Wrong links
I haven't time but half these links to characters just link to a main article sometimes not even mentioning them, the links need removing.Yellowxander (talk) 22:52, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:53, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * TheRailwaySerieslogo.webp

A Quick Question/Disclaimer
If you read the section just after the part when the article mentions The Railway Stories, near towards the end, I added a section talking a bit about the Railway Series timeline and how it was a sort of alternate one, but I made a typo when I mentioned that as the decades continued, the Awdry father and son added more to their timeline to progress it a bit more like ours (bad choice of words there), but when I mentioned that, I accidentally put "some" instead of "son", which I intended to put, and I don't know how to edit anything after it's been edited in. By the way, the person making this first edit to this comment is the same one who typed in that topic. I didn't think about having to sign back in.

Thin Controller - identity
In the text it claims (without citation) that the Thin Controller was Edward Thomas. My understanding was that it was more likely to be L.T.C. Rolt, who was the first general manager of the line after it became volunteer-led. Many of the stories date from that period, being based on real incidents given in accounts in his book "Railway Adventure". Also, for Sir Haydn and Peter Sam to be involved, that again corresponds to the period immediately after the preservation society took over. I suggest the text is altered, but ideally there should be some documentary evidence or a reference for who the Thin Controller was intended to represent. Hyperman 42 (talk) 22:54, 17 August 2023 (UTC)