Talk:The Real Group

Vocal Ranges
I don't know who posted the vocal ranges, but they could probably be clarified a little bit better. I am unsure when the author references "high C" if he or she means C5 or C6, an octave above middle C or two. Couldn't this be changed to more standard notation, like in the following:

Vocal ranges of the members * Emma Nilsdotter: (Not known) * Katarina Henryson: From D3 to C5/6. * Anders Edenroth: From C3 to A4/5. * Peder Karlsson: From E2 to C5. * Anders Jalkéus: From A1 to C4. Vocal ranges of previous members * Johanna Nyström: (Not known) * Margareta Bengtson: From F3 to G5/6

Furthermore, this section, while informative, doesn't really seem like it is important enough to merit inclusion in the main text. I almost think it might fit better in the infobox. Just my humble thoughtsJosejuan05 (talk) 21:21, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

"First members to be accepted..."
I'm not sure what is meant by "The Real Group were the first members to be accepted into the Royal College's degree program". First members of what? Is the article asserting that (all) the original five TRG members were the (only) first people to ever be accepted into a degree program at the Royal College of Music? Knowing very little about the RCM, I still find that very hard to believe since the RCM has been around since 1771 (and/or since 1971, depending on how you look at it; either way, it was there for years before anyone from TRG started attending it).

So: if this is not the assertion being made, please re-word the text to clarify its meaning and to eliminate the possibility of misinterpretation. Or if this is the assertion being made, please provide some citation that backs it up. Mlibby 15:11, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Removing the text in question. Feel free to restore it when you can provide clarification and/or citation. Mlibby 17:37, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Take 6="stalwart"
Okay, it looks like I goofed: apparently Take 6 doesn't turn over members as often as the King's Singers or Rockapella (although Alvin Chea did go away for a while, too, I think... but SWMOY's point is taken: Take 6 isn't a high turnover group). Touche.

However, the addition of the "Take 6" comment has a few problems.
 * The link to "Acappella" (presumably the group) should be "Acappella (group)".
 * The earlier content contrasted TRG tenures with those of some example groups (which erroneously included Take 6). But the new content ("..., only matched by Take 6's", etc.) comes across as a conclusive assertion: so it asserts that there are no other popular pro a-c groups with original tenure of 22+ years.  It even implicity asserts knowledge of what is the exhaustive list of popular pro a-c groups (such that one could compare their tenures and then use a word such as "only").
 * Terms like "another great stalwart of etc." are very POV and should be avoided.
 * This is an article about The Real Group. The "turnover of group members" thread is seeking to point out something that is descriptive and ~distinctive of The Real Group.  If it turns out that Take 6 is similarly non-turnoverish, then that should be pointed out in the Take 6 article, and not here.  And if it turns out that this low-turnover distinction isn't actually so disctinctive, then we should just drop its mention from the TRG article.

The first three problems would only require a quick fix to the content (to change verbiage and links). But the last problem means (to me, anyway) that the Take 6 mention should be deleted, since they're apparently not a high-turnover group (again, whoops).

And if this "other groups with high turnover" segment becomes contentious and / or if it turns into a "why didn't you list this other group" thing, then I think the entire segment should be deleted (from "Turnover of group members" until right before "Bengtson has finished"). When in doubt, we want just to state the facts (i.e., Margareta is the first and only TRG member to have moved on (soon)) and let the reader draw their own conclusions.

Kudos to Take 6 for retaining their members and for getting Alvin Chea back. Mlibby 21:31, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * And, may I add, hooray that someone besides me made a recent edit to this article. About stinking time.  Thanks, SWMOY.  Please don't let my nitpickiness scare you off.  And get to work on that Take 6 article, howbout?  How about some album cover images and critical reviews (there should be a lot of good reviews out there for a group like Take 6).
 * If you're bummed about the possible removal of the Take 6 link from the TRG article, there's a good TRG quote that can take its place (possibly in a new "Musical style" section or the existing "Trivia" section) in which TRG explains how they experimented with trying to sound like Take 6 and they couldn't hack it (with props to Take 6... I mean, come on, who else could sing like that?), so TRG went their own way and developed their own sound. You can find the quote in the Q&A / FAQ section of TRG's web site.
 * Mlibby 21:39, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Mlibby 21:39, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Better Picture
Can we get a better picture? One with Margareta instead of Johanna Nyström? Mlibby 16:11, 17 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I am contacting The Real Group to see if we can get access to their press kit materials. There should be some useable pictures in there. Mlibby 16:37, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Contacted, accessed, added and linked. I'm not sure if it will survive the "speedy deleters", since I didn't ask TRG to sign away rights to their property.  If it gets zapped, I'll get back in touch with TRG to see if we can get something GFDL-able (may have to find a Wikipedian in Sweden... argh). Mlibby 05:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Linked peformance(s)
The "Dancing Queen" performance linked here is appalling: it's apparently 100% lip synch, because the sound track is spot-on identical with the track released on The Real Group albums (at least on Allt Det Bästa).

As further proof, the track to which they're lip-synching is a studio track that contains many more voice parts and effects than what they could possibly produce on stage, even with the ostensible addition of Anni-Frid Lyngstad.

So, in fact, Anni-Frid isn't even heard in this performance; she's just lip-synching to Katarina's voice. Granted, I'd rather hear Katarina than Anni-Frid any day, but this is just ridiculous.

I suppose an encyclopdia must point out the bad with the good, but couldn't we get links to some actual good performances? The Real Group is one of the very best live-performing a cappella groups in the world (at least if their live recordings are any indication), and having just this one atrocious performance linked here is not representative of what The Real Group really is. Please dig up some other, better performance links. Sure, leave the "Dancing Queen" link here to remind us all about fallability and such.

Blah blah blah. I'm probably just talking to myself here. I will dig up some performances and post them here if I can find the time. Please beat me to it if you can. Mlibby 15:59, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Since the "Dancing Queen" performance is not representative but it is (trivially) significant in that it was (presumably) a command performance for the queen (c.f. "Beatles and Queeen Elizabeth II"), I'm going to move the link to this particular "Dancing Queen" performance completely into the "Trivia" section (= removing from the "External links" section). I'm going to include a super-brief explanation of the lip sync, because it's required in order to be accurate in mentioning the performance. Also, I'm popping out the "legality of live performances from YouTube" talk page question to a separate topic on the talk page. Mlibby 15:18, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm. It looks like I'm at least partly wrong: the group's rendition of "Dancing Queen" may have actually been recorded with Anni-Frid ("Frida") in the first place; I don't really know enough Swedish yet to be able to say for sure, just by looking at the group's web site. So I'll retract some of the "this is just ridiculous" claims I was making, but I'm still sure that the audio track accompanying that live performance clip is identical to the studio recording.  Allowing some remaining uncertainty as to whether that track was added to the performance clip before or after the video was recorded (and in light of my other comments about the general okay-ness of lip synchs under some circumstances), I'm dropping the "lip sync" comments in this article (in and around the reference to the "Dancing Queen" performance...  but the reference will still stay in the trivia section, at least for now). Mlibby 16:35, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Legality of live performances from YouTube
What is the legality of these live performances from YouTube? Am I correct in assuming that the particular material hosted on YouTube is probably in violation of the respective copyright holders? What is the legality or appropriateness of linking to that material, then? I will try to dig up the answer(s) [see earlier "talking to myself" comment], but I'd appreciate it if someone else could help find the answer(s), too. Mlibby 15:19, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * See Copyrights. The upshot is that if the linked material appears to violate copyright, then don't link it (because of "contributory infringement" and because it casts WP in a bad light).  So the YouTube performance links in question need to go bye-bye.  Mlibby 20:00, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

"To-do" list
This is a list of suggested work to do on this article. You obviously don't have to add tasks to this list before doing something (that would be very un-Wiki); the list is just here as a convenience. If you want to add stuff to it, feel free. When you complete something in the list, you can put around it to give it a strikethrough, and you might want to sign your username afterwards using ~. Mlibby 03:13, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Relevance / notablity
 * Use the Notability (music) guidelines to identify some information that should appear in the article. Make sure to let the facts speak for their own significance (rather than having the article explicitly claim that something is significant).
 * Awards (here's a nonexhaustive list)
 * Karamelodiktstipendiet added Mlibby 13:39, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * CARAs: need to fill in the gaps
 * missing titles for awards in 1997
 * missing awards (if any) from 1999-2002
 * there may be some "runners-up" awards missing from 1995-2002
 * Any other awards? (there _must_ be some, especially within Scandanavia)
 * Criticism / reviews / kudos
 * Jon_Hendricks' "I wish I was in this group" comment (and others) in the liner notes introduction for one of the albums (Unreal?)
 * Artists with whom they've collaborated
 * Musical style
 * Not sure what all could go in here. May be more of a "non-exhaustive list of examples".  May not be so much about their vocalization style so much as the material from which they draw (jazz standards, Beatles covers, Swedish folk songs, lots of self-composed pop-sounding stuff).
 * Group history
 * Add reference to Real Book, explaining the group's name. Include citations from the appropriate places.
 * Discography
 * Add album cover images Done Mlibby 13:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Add album summaries, including some indication of songs sung in English
 * Add album review quotes
 * Photos
 * Get photos from TRG press kit (done Mlibby 03:13, 15 August 2006 (UTC)) and add them under auspices of Publicity photos; argh, it looks like the "publicity photos" guidelines are less of a policy and more of a giant, festering mess Done. (Good grief, that was painful. Wikipedia is going GFDL-crazy, apparently) Mlibby 05:17, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Samples
 * Video clips:
 * Resolve "linking to YouTube" issue, to wit: do links have to link to external material that satify fair use, too?. Post resolution to discussion page topic. resolved: YouTube okay, copyright-violating YouTube content not okay. Mlibby 20:02, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Find some video clips useable under fair use (refer to resolution of YouTube issue) For now, just go with videos on the TRG web site (below) Mlibby 20:02, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Link to video clips on TRG web site (as appropriate).
 * Audio clips
 * See what's done in other articles (and what's the rational); ogg-ify and upload some clips from TRG albums. Be sure to follow the fair use guidelines.
 * Imminent departure of Margareta and arrival of Johanna
 * Locate an official press release from TRG ("just" released around 8/31, with a message to be posted on the group's web site "soon")
 * Start an individual page for Margareta; reference her solo album
 * Start a current / past members approach (similar to what's done in the Rockapella article)
 * Trivia
 * LG Electronics is now offering a mobile phone on which various sound effects are sung by TRG. See http://www.textually.org/ringtonia/archives/2006/08/013364.htm (the text may blank out on you, presumably due to an over-enthusiastic JavaScript; if you select text in the area where the text blanked out, you'll probably be able to see it again.
 * For giggles, here's the text:
 * "LG Electronics unveiled a mobile handset featuring a cappella sounds for bells and other sound effects yesterday. The model has adopted music sources sung by Sweden's Real Group - a professional a cappella group from Sweden, consisting of five members: soprano Margareta Jalkéus, alto Katarina Henryson, tenor Anders Edenroth, baritone Peder Karlsson, and bass Anders Jalkéus."
 * The later half of the second sentence seems pretty familiar, doesn't it? Yay, we're famous (not really).  In the ~story, the text "Real Group" is linked to this Wikipedia article.  Yay, we're famous (no, still not really).

Request for comment: new WikiProject for a cappella-related articles
Hi there! To any and all interested: I've proposed a WikiProject dedicated to a cappella. This would be a group of editors interested in improving the quality of articles related to a cappella. If you're passionate about a cappella—ranging from the Pentatonix to groups like the Real Group, or perhaps pop culture representations like Pitch Perfect and The Sing-Off—please check out the proposal and share your thoughts!

Here's a link to the proposal for WikiProject A Cappella.

If you could see yourself contributing to an article related to a cappella (like this one), please consider joining!


 * —Shrinkydinks (talk) 20:55, 8 December 2019 (UTC)