Talk:The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars/GA2

GA Review
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Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 13:29, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

The previous review was a "near miss", in as much as the nominator disappeared and didn't fix up a few outstanding issues. Given that, and the work recently done by this nominator on multiple Bowie articles, I think not only will this be an easy review, it will be a pleasure to re-read the article given its improvements. While I'm a fan of Bowie's 1970s work generally, and even some later things aren't too bad, nothing ever gives as much sheer "buzz" that the Mick Ronson-era music does, and probably never will. Still, I think I can do this justice in a neutral manner

Specific comments will follow. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  13:29, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Background

 * "Following his promotional tour of America in February 1971" - is it worth clarifying that this wasn't a "tour" as most rock fans would recognise it ie: no live shows in front of a public audience?
 * I don't think so. I mean there were occasional live performances during it... – zmbro (talk) 15:23, 3 November 2021 (UTC)


 * For the benefit of those who don't know who Mick Ronson, Trevor Bolder and Mick Woodmansey are, is it worth clarifying their roles? I'm wondering particularly what Ronson could be credited as, which could be any or all of "guitarist", "pianist", "backing vocalist" and "arranger".
 * Thought that was already there but I guess not. Fixed.

Recording and production

 * "using much of the same personnel as Hunky Dory" - wasn't it just everybody minus Wakeman who'd gone off noodling with Yes? (WARNING: strong opinion - Wakeman should have accepted Bowie's offer and Yes should have retained Tony Kaye, and rock music would have been the better for it .... but I'm not a reliable source, so what do I know?)
 * Pretty much. It seems most people don't actually really how connected Hunky and Ziggy really were/are. (It definitely would have changed a few things) – zmbro (talk) 15:23, 3 November 2021 (UTC)


 * "For the album, Ronson used an electric guitar" - do we know what model? Presumably the Gibson Les Paul he later used live?
 * Unfortunately I can't confirm that – zmbro (talk) 15:23, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I had a quick look as well, but I can't find any source that links the Les Paul to the studio. As musicians can use different instruments for the studio and stage, I've hit a dead end too. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  15:29, 3 November 2021 (UTC)


 * "according to biographer Kevin Cann, the replacement occurred on 2 February" - how can "Round and Round" be dropped for "Starman" if it wasn't recorded until two days later?
 * Since the label requested a single ("Starman"), Bowie quickly wrote that knowing it would replace one of the tracks. So it was replaced then recorded. That's how I took it at least. – zmbro (talk) 15:23, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Concept and themes

 * "Meanwhile, "Suffragette City" contains a false ending, followed by the famous phrase "wham bam, thank you, ma'am!" - is "famous" the right word to use here?
 * Removed that.


 * "As well as including faster-paced numbers ("Star")" - wouldn't "Hang Onto Yourself" be a better example?
 * I was only able to confirm "Star" here. – zmbro (talk) 15:23, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Artwork and packaging

 * Worth clarifying that George Underwood was a longtime friend of Bowie?
 * Yes, done

Aftermath

 * I think the "tour section" sits better as a subsection under "Release and promotion", or possibly its own section. For me, the "aftermath" starts on 3 July 1973 when Bowie says "Not only is this the last show of the tour, but it's the last show that we'll ever do".
 * I think so too but imo that interrupts flow, since the "Aladdin" tour should really be in aftermath. I personally don't like how the entire thing is considered the "Ziggy Stardust Tour" when in fact (and Pegg agrees), the Ziggy Tour was '72 then the "Aladdin" tour was '73 (you know in support of Aladdin...). What do you think we should do here? – zmbro (talk) 15:23, 3 November 2021 (UTC)


 * I think the best thing to do is put "Tour" and "Other projects" in separate top-level sections. They're both multiple-paragraph entries, so this is a suitable compromise, I think. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  15:30, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * How's that look? – zmbro (talk) 15:58, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  16:00, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Reappraisal

 * "Retrospectively, Ziggy Stardust has received critical acclaim and is recognised as one of the most important glam rock albums" - would it be appropriate to say it's one of the most important rock albums, full stop?
 * Agreed. Done.

Personnel

 * Where does Mick Ronson play organ on the album?
 * Nowhere. Corrections made.

Summary
As expected, no major issues with this - indeed some of the above is more discussion points than anything else. Putting on hold pending final improvements. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  13:38, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Responses above. Thanks for reviewing! – zmbro (talk) 15:23, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * No worries. Just one more response needed now, then I think we'll be done. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  15:31, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay we're all done, so I'll pass the review now. Well done! <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  16:00, 3 November 2021 (UTC)