Talk:The Rolling Stones/Archive 6

Merge with The Beatles
CodeCat (talk) 01:22, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
 * This is important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dukawalla (talk • contribs) 10:34, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * This is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dukawalla (talk • contribs) 10:36, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Their honorific title
Somewhere on this page, probably in the first section, their moniker "The World's Greatest Rock and Roll Band" should be addressed, as that title is listed as their's on the page Honorific nicknames in popular music, and generally speaking other artists have their honorific title- Elvis, Beatles, Beach Boys to name a few- displayed in the first section of their respective pages96.59.26.107 (talk) 02:21, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Flagging fortunes false narrative
Goats Head Soup went triple platinum.

Is this commercial disasters. Just the facts, Maam 1972	Exile On Main Street	3,000,000	3P 1972	More Hot Rocks (big hits and fazed cookies)	500,000	G 1973	Goat's Head Soup	3,000,000	3P 1974	It's Only Rock and Roll	1,000,000	P 1975	Made In The Shade	1,000,000	P 1976	Black and Blue	1,000,000	P 1977	Love You Live	500,000	G 1978	Some Girls	6,000,000	6P 1980	Emotional Rescue	2,000,000	2P 1981	Sucking In the Seventies	500,000	G 1981	Tattoo You	4,000,000	4P

Please note the '75 Tour of The Americas.
This is a quote from "The Rolling Stones" as on Wikipedia.

The 1975 Tour of the Americas kicked off in New York City with the band performing on a flatbed trailer being pulled down Broadway. The tour featured stage props including a giant phallus and a rope on which Jagger swung out over the audience. Jagger had booked live recording sessions at the El Mocambo club in Toronto to balance a long-overdue live album, 1977's Love You Live (UK 3; US 5), the first Stones live album since 1970's Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out! The Rolling Stones in Concert.

PLEASE NOTE: THIS TOUR STARTED IN BATON ROUGE, LOUISIANA (known as the "balloon penis" tour by those of us there). This fact is documented if you will please go to the dates of "The 1975 Tour of the Americas" here on Wikepedia. PLEASE CORRECT.

Formed in Dartford
I don't think it's fair to say the Rolling Stones were formed in Dartford. To do so is to claim that The Blue Boys was the direct predecessor of the Stones because that was the only related entity formed in Dartford. If you buy that logic, then you're saying the Stones were formed by Mick and Keith (and Dick Taylor), not by Brian Jones and Ian Stewart, as is commonly accepted and clearly described later in this article:

''Brian Jones advertised for band mates in the Jazz News and Ian Stewart found a practice space and joined with Jones to start a rhythm and blues band playing Chicago blues. Shortly thereafter, Jagger, Taylor and Richards left Blues Incorporated to join Jones and Stewart in their effort.''

Keith is clear in his book that he interviewed with and auditioned for Ian Stewart at a London pub (I'm pretty sure it was the Bricklayer's Arms, but I listened to the audio version of the book so I can't quote chapter and verse) in response to Jones's ad.

You might make the case that the direct predecessor of the Stones was Blues Incorporated, since five of the original six members of the initial settled lineup (Jagger, Richards, Jones, Watts, and Stewart) played in it, but I've never heard that claimed and it would still make London the point of formation, or at least Ealing.

But I think the Blue Boys were formed in Dartford by Jagger, Richards, and Taylor, and then Brian Jones and Ian Stewart founded the Stones in London, later joined by Jagger and Richards and briefly Taylor. Jones and Stewart had nothing to do with Dartford and everything to do with founding the Stones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:F826:200:6233:4BFF:FEE8:B46F (talk) 16:02, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Here's some supporting evidence from the Brian Jones page http://www.rollingstones.com/artist/brian-jones/ at the Stones' website:

Brian was soon hitch-hiking to London where he would go to the Ealing Blues Club, sometimes sitting in with the Alexis Korner’s band. One night, Mick and Keith, on a visit to the club, saw Brian play slide guitar and were impressed with his rendition of Elmore James’s “Dust My Broom”. ''Soon after Brian, Ian Stewart, Mick and Keith formed a band, and began rehearsing at Soho’s Bricklayers Arms pub. On the 12th July 1962 they played their first gig at the Marquee Club, billed as The Rollin’ Stones.'' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:F826:200:6233:4BFF:FEE8:B46F (talk) 13:37, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Heh. Looks like Bill Wyman (and eventually the Dartford Town Council) agree with me:

''A plaque marking the meeting between Mick Jagger and Keith Richards is to be replaced after The Rolling Stones' former bassist Bill Wyman objected.

The blue plaque, unveiled at Dartford station in February, says the pair "went on to form The Rolling Stones".

But Wyman complained, saying guitarist Brian Jones created The Rolling Stones and enlisted the other members.

-

Wyman, who left the band in 1993, told BBC Radio 5 live the plaque was disgusting.

"Mick Jagger and Keith Richards didn't create the Rolling Stones - they were part of The Rolling Stones like all of us," he said.

"Brian Jones wanted to form a blues band and he enlisted each member one by one.

"He gave the name The Rolling Stones, he chose the music and he was the leader."

''

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-33277997 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:F82F:FF00:6233:4BFF:FEE8:B46F (talk) 19:11, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Top importance
Their status as Musicians are of Top-importance please change this TheDeathKingTheGodfather 04:10, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

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 * Fixed one link, two URLs successfully archived by the bot, two were dead with no apparent working archived version. I'll talk to Cyberpower678 about this, as the two dead archives did return a 404. The WayBack Machine still returned them as if they were working, so it's just a matter of the bot not relying on WayBack Machine to have working versions and checking the status code &mdash; MusikAnimal  talk  18:18, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

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Genre
Hard Rock should be added. It is a genre listed on a great deal of the bands albums. It makes sense to be included.

SlaniCraft (talk) 21:16, 17 March 2016 (UTC) SlaniCraft (talk) 21:16, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Cuba 2016
Whats about Cuba? --Asdfww (talk) 23:03, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The Rolling Stones arrived in Cuba's capital Thursday, on the eve of the rock band's historic free concert in a country where its music was once silenced. abcnews.go.com - Mar 24, 2016

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Nicky Hopkins
Should he be listed as a "Past Member"? (from the "Let It Bleed" era) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.115.238.102 (talk) 06:43, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

2012–present: 50th anniversary and forthcoming new album - Relevancy of Random Mentions of Tour Dates
Looking through the above section, there are various mentions of tours in general such as "The Rolling Stones embarked on a Worldwide Tour on 1 Jan, 2001" or something like that. Individual tour locales are mentioned, but only if there was additional information attached such as "On 17 March 2014, the sudden death in New York City of L'Wren Scott, the longtime girlfriend/partner of Jagger, was reported by various news sources as the Rolling Stones were in Australia preparing for their first show in Perth. It was announced on their website that those shows were cancelled for that reason, and would be rescheduled at a later date." It is understandable with the band doing essentially nothing more notable in the public arena than just touring, as opposed to their 1960's/70's/80's careers, that their Wiki page would be filled largely with that type of content.

However, HurluGumene put in the following sentence "During summer 2016, the Rolling Stones announced 4 US shows due to occur in late 2016: in Indio, California on October 7 & 14 during the concert event Desert Trip and in Las Vegas, Nevada on October 19 & 22 at T-Mobile Arena, their first show in Las Vegas being already sold-out." which is nothing more than a press release documenting the bands current Fall tour schedule. It is neither notable (2016 isn't their last tour) nor noteworthy (the locales are not special in any sense and selling out a date is common) and, considering the content on the rest of this page, is completely irrelevant, IMO.

Not trying to be jerk, but too often these band pages fill up with fancruft/fanboy info where everything the band does is "notable" and there should be a line, somewhere, where this type of information falls below the level of "who cares". Comments? Ckruschke (talk) 15:37, 16 September 2016 (UTC)Ckruschke


 * Per WP:NOTNEWS these types of announcements don't belong in Wikipedia. The event in question, once it has occurred, may be notable and merit coverage in the article but the announcement is not a notable event in itself. Piriczki (talk) 15:51, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

WikiProject proposal: Psychedelic music
If interested, please offer support for a WikiProject focused on psychedelic music.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 01:51, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Keith Richards as lead guitarist?
As a guitarist, Keith mainly plays rhythm parts, which is especially evident when the Stones played with Mick Taylor. However, the article lists Keith as 'lead guitar' exclusively, while the real lead players, such as Ronnie Wood and Mick Taylor, have their roles as 'rhythm and lead guitar'. My point is, we should change this so that Keith is rhythm and the others are lead. AddingInstruments (talk) 09:49, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

@AddingInstruments I agree with this notion but I'm assuming that lead guitarist will still be enacted under Keith as well as rythm as he was lead guitarist for the majority of Beggars Banquet and Let It Bleed.

Adding new Genre
I have noticed that blues has been removed without any reason I can find, I would like to propose to add Blues back as well as adding Blues rock under genres. Not to touch the earth (talk) 20:30, 7 March 2017 (UTC)


 * You need a reliable source and consensus before the genre will be allowed to stay. - Mlpearc  ( open channel ) 02:11, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Blues genre
Looking through the page history, this is an established genre, regardless of what you think, see WP:BURDEN. Since this genre has been accepted by page watchers (unofficial consensus) you have the burden of your cause and must gain consensus as to why it's not correct. - Mlpearc  ( open channel ) 16:50, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 * My evidence is: there is literally no source on this page which refers to The Rolling Stones as a blues band, or as making primarily blues music. It's an unsourced claim. Your evidence is "the unexamined status quo" which isn't really valid support at all, is it? User:Mlpearc GentleCollapse16 (talk) 03:17, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * This shouldn't be too difficult to find, say, in a decent biography of the band. I think part of the problem is that, given how the Stones have endured, their early blues (or rhythm and blues) tag gets lost as the story rolls on. But "rock" seems pretty inadequate, imo, given that it wasn't a widely used description for a specific style until 1966 (when it was adopted to differentiate from "pop"). I think it's fair to say the Stones' career was launched by their long residency at the Crawdaddy Club, which, certainly in the early '60s, presented only blues and R 'n B acts. As the AllMusic bio puts it, the Stones "became the breakout band of the British blues scene". JG66 (talk) 03:45, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm finding plenty of mentions in Philip Norman's Stones and Chris Salewicz's Mick & Keith of the band's early identity as an R 'n' B group. This from Dave Marsh's piece in The Rolling Stone Record Guide: "As everyone past infancy should know, the Rolling Stones in their initial incarnation were the greatest white blues and R&B band that ever was." JG66 (talk) 04:39, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

WP:BURDEN: ; the removal of "blues" was justified in this instance then. Dan56 (talk) 03:49, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Here's a source that might perhaps verify the idea that they're a blues group (at least early on): "when they first appeared they were a blues group almost exclusively", said Peter Guralnick. But how can anything be added now that the page is completely protected? Dan56 (talk) 03:49, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Same as always, once consensus is reached, make an edit request. - Mlpearc  ( open channel ) 04:44, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * *sigh* Dan56 (talk) 06:15, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * In their early days, they were essentially a Chess cover band. They bought blues to the pop audience. –Ojorojo (talk) 01:25, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Featured article status nomination for Rolling Stones
I have nominated Rolling Stones for featured article status and am seeking your opinions on this. Featured article candidates/The Rolling Stones/archive2 --TheSandDoctor (talk) 21:04, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

EDIT: If you did not want this page nominated at this time, I apologize for doing so as I was attempting to assist and only after nominating it realized that nominations require the approval of frequent editors to the page in question. I personally believe this page to potentially be of the appropriate calibre for nomination. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 21:38, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

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Fair use rationale for File:The Rolling Stones - Paint It Black.ogg
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 * I've removed these for the minute; I can't easily write FURs for them as I didn't upload them. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  10:32, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Tours
"When you're out there in this vast stadium, you have to physically tiny up on stage, so that's why…

"When you're out there in this vast stadium, you ARE SO physically tiny up on stage, so that's why…

[seems more likely, but it is Charlie Watts, he could have said anything]Paul Santon (talk) 14:57, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Recent edits
, What's going on with this recent spate of edits? The narrative jumps from "In 1969, Jones..." back to 1962 (which can't be right, so I've removed it), while elsewhere there are new citations which are free text and not formatted (I don't mind which you choose, but FA reviews will pounce on that as a sign of "not ready"). What's going on? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  21:19, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I think it's a typo. I left "In (month) 19XX" in thedraft re-write, and it's come over with a typo in it. I'm not sure there has been any changes to the citations yet (although there may be a couple of temporary ones from a couple of questions I've asked): that'll come after the text is sorted. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 21:26, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Jones did leave the group in 1969, so that bit should probably be reworked/moved, (misread that entirely, thanks for removing Ritchie) but I am not aware of any newer citations being in a different format as they were all generated the same way (via the automated visual editor tool). Thank you for pointing that out though . --TheSandDoctor (talk) 23:13, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Timeline
(Pinging as he reverted my change.)

The timeline looks messed up in multiple browsers (Chrome 61, Firefox 56 on Linux) for me as this image shows.

Setting the date to a specific one fixes the issue. Please don't revert as this might be a problem for others as well. Bjelleklang -  talk 17:49, 15 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you I use Chrome and the other version is messed up.  -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 17:54, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
 * What operating system are you on? Version 61.0.3163.100 is broken for me, but 61.0.3163.98 on Android looks okay. As for User:Jimi Hendersons suggestion to change browser; no point. The template is broken for whatever reason. While changing browser (or OS) might work for me, it would still be broken for an unknown number of other users using browsers which displays messy timelines. Bjelleklang -  talk 18:22, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Found a fix for it, the template contained some styling textcolor:black align:left anchor:from shift:(11,-4) which messed it up. Switched back to using the page creation date as the end for the timeline. Bjelleklang -  talk 18:34, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Windows 10, but that's not a fix, (changing browsers) as you well know. Not sure if the template is broke or just the way it's made to perform, your screenshot is exactly what I see also. -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 18:40, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of The Rolling Stones Museum
Can people please reply on the tag of nomination for deletion of The Rolling Stones Museum? I don't know this Wikipedia well enough. Ymnes (talk) 18:32, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for posting it here. A list of users active within this Wikipedia project can be found here. Some administrators do, however, watch this article closely (as well as Mick Jagger) as they have both been heavily vandalized in the past (this one enough to have moving indefinitely fully protected). Thank you again for posting it here and on the talk page of the WikiProject! --TheSandDoctor (talk) 02:21, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

Tongue images
Re this edit, can you please help me to find another place in this article to put that tongue image File:The Rolling Stones Tongue Logo with white background.jpg, not so close to the other tongue image? — Jeff G. ツ 11:14, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

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Tour page move
Please see this discussion. Thanks.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 18:24, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Tax exiles vs. UK residents
One thing in the article that is not entirely accurate is the suggestion that the band has been tax exiles since 1971-1972, because it has to be pointed out that Bill Wyman, Charlie Watts, Mick Taylor and Ronnie Wood moved back to the UK in subsequent years and Mick Jagger and Keith Richards own property in the UK as well. 60.240.8.249 (talk) 06:38, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for mentioning that 60, do you have any reliable references stating when they returned from tax exile? (To be clear: I will look for them as well, but if you have any, please do send my way). -- The SandDoctor Talk 16:33, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Is it the case that they can only spend a certain amount of time in the UK in any tax year? Eagleash (talk) 17:58, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
 * That is what I am unsure of. I have found (unreliable) references stating that Mick owns property in England, but have not found any stating it to be principal residence (or, more importantly, when the "tax exile" might have ended). I do, however, know that the Rolling Stones' corporate body is owned by Promogroup (a holding company they set up based in the Netherlands and Caribbean). I have yet to be able to look further into when the exile has ended. Unfortunately, without a reliable source specifying a year/decade, it is hard to add. -- The SandDoctor Talk 18:12, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I have long understood that it hasn't. They can own property in the UK but it doesn't necessarily mean that they are 'resident'. Quick google results. Eagleash (talk) 18:26, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the ref . In that case, nothing to update in the article then. -- The SandDoctor Talk 18:37, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Eagleash (talk) 18:41, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, I'll rephrase that - I was specifically referring to certain members, not the Stones as a whole. 60.240.8.249 (talk) 10:14, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
 * -- The SandDoctor Talk 18:39, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't think it makes much difference... if any. The individual members, I'm pretty sure, can only spend a certain amount of time in UK because of their individual tax status. If something can be found to verify, one way or the other, then all well and good. Eagleash (talk) 21:57, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Recent reverts
and, could you please discuss your differences here instead of just blindly reverting each other? Cheers! <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  13:13, 4 July 2018 (UTC)


 * I simply reverted an unexplained edit and pointed out nicely to Piriczki that edits should be explained in the edit summary box. That's it! They've apparently chosen to revert again without explanation. No differences here — just suggesting the courtesy of following WP's accepted practice of giving other editors an idea of why a change was made. Cheers! Twofingered Typist (talk) 13:20, 4 July 2018 (UTC)


 * As far as I can tell, Piriczki trimmed the size of the article down with a summary "ce", which normally means "copyedit", and comes with the assumption that no facts were changed in the article. Given there's an active peer review where a complaint has come in about article size, it certainly looks like a good faith edit that merits discussion if you disagree. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  13:22, 4 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Ah, sorry, missed that. Thanks. Twofingered Typist (talk) 18:34, 4 July 2018 (UTC)