Talk:The Rose of Versailles (manga)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

no consensus to move, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 22:29, 9 April 2007 (UTC) The Rose of Versailles (manga) → Berusaiyu no Bara (manga) — Move was requested by User:Armando12 with the explanation, "the correct title of the manga is Berusaiyu no Bara (japanese name)." I'm completing the listing by setting up a discussion here. I don't know anything about the manga in question, but here's a small alphabet soup of potentially relevant policies and guidelines for those interested: WP:NC, WP:MOS-JA, WP:COMMONNAME, WP:NCP, WP:UE and WikiProject Anime and manga. That last one hasn't got a fancy abbreviation. GTBacchus(talk) 01:51, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Survey

 * Add  # Support   or   # Oppose   on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~ .  Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

Survey - in support of the move

 * 1) Support. It's a Japanese-language cartoon book. I read that part of it has been translated into English. This translation doesn't seem to have been so significant even for readers of English (the translation was marketed to Japanese speakers, or their parents or schools); and I note that the img file is of the Japanese. Thus the relationship of the English-language title to Berusaiyu no Bara seems very different from that of, say The Ruined Map to Moetsukita chizu. ¶ The title of this concoction is ベルサイユのばら. As I see it, one way to romanize this is "Versailles no bara" (which hasn't been proposed) and the other is "Berusaiyu no bara". So yes, change it to the latter. ¶ If its title were instead ザ・ローズ・オブ・ベルサイユ or similar, that would be a different story; but it isn't. -- Hoary 09:07, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you suggesting that the manga and the anime have different names? FYI, here are some counter-examples, where non-original/non-Japanese names are used in Wikipedia:  Tomorrow's Joe (あしたのジョー), Lupin III (ルパン三世), Gigantor (鉄人28号), Speed Racer (マッハ・ゴー・ゴー), Kimba the White Lion (ジャングル大帝), Science Ninja Team Gatchaman (科学忍者隊ガッチャマン), King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table (anime) (円卓の騎士物語 燃えろアーサー).--Endroit 17:00, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Survey - in opposition to the move

 * 1) Oppose Naming conventions "If you are talking about a person, country, town, film, or book, use the most commonly used English version of the name for the article." -- Orange Mike 03:27, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Strongly oppose &mdash; I strongly protest the Japanization of any of the French names. It's supposed to be Versailles, NOT "Berusaiyu".  Oh and by the way, it's also spelled Versailles in English.--Endroit 22:10, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Oppose - For this case at least, I agree with Orange Mike. The name hasn't been changed, just translated. LordAmeth 22:45, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Oppose, per Orangemike. - Cyrus XIII 00:06, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Strongly Oppose. Original name has been extensively used even within fandom; I see no reason that the non-otaku would instead use a name they don't understand. --Samuel CurtisShinichian-Hirokian-- TALK · CONTRIBS 07:28, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: This article is abuot the manga, not the anime. The manga original title has never been The Rose of Versailles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Armando12 (talk • contribs)
 * Please pay particular attention to the French names in this manga, especially if it existed in real life. And I don't want to see you impose Japanese Romaji to French names, because it looks ugly.
 * Also, the part I object to here, is your use of the Japanized French name "Berusaiyu", instead of "Versailles". "Versailles no Bara" may be marginally acceptable as a title here.  However, mixing French names with Japanese words just doesn't cut it for most native English speakers.--Endroit 20:46, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

 * additional comment WikiProject Anime and manga says: "Article name: Name your pages in English and place the native transliteration on the first line of the article unless the native form is more commonly recognized by readers than the English form." -- Orange Mike 03:27, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Edition information
Chuokoron-Shinsha editions

Shueisha 2002 B5 - 30th anniversary special Shueisha 2005 A5 Shueisha 2006 A5 Shueisha 2006 A4 Shueisha 2006 A4