Talk:The Royal Conservatory of Music

Untitled
One should also include more information on the teaching method and style... as well as mention to 'ARCT' level, which goes beyond their grades 1-10, and includes two branches, teaching and performing. The RCM is not just a place/building but also a distinction, of a strong musical background.--Skugg 19:16, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

A google indicates, this might not be the only place on Earth with this name. Given the generic sounding name, it seems prudent to include the city name. Most links to article have already been fixed to point to "Royal Conservatory of Music (Toronto)". Now, if somebody really wishes to change it back, I will accept that *if* you also fix the re-dirs. I will ultimately fix the few remaining re-dirs, but I'll wait a bit, to see if it's moved back right away. --rob 02:15, 15 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Why did you do this move? The Manual of Style recommends that an article should correspond to the most common use of a name, and this was certainly the case here. At least "Royal Conservatory of Music" still redirects here, but if there are others, why haven't you changed that to a disambiguation page (even if right now there are only red links for the others)? In the future, I would recommend trying seek out consensus before making unilateral page moves. I also do not accept your high handed declaration that someone could only move it back if they agree to fix the redirects that YOU broke. Fawcett5 12:39, 15 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I was moving it back to the established status quo, where it had been for some time. The prior mover, should have gotten consensus.  At the time of my move, most links were to "Royal Conservatory of Music (Toronto)" already.  So, my single act of moving *decreased* the number of re-directs.   Also, at least one (maybe more) of the links to "Royal Conservatory of Music" was in fact referring to " the Royal Conservatory of Music in Copenhagen" (see Sigurd Rascher).  That's a serious error, which is noticed when it's a re-dir, but not when it's a direct link.  You break, *you* fix it.  --rob 12:55, 15 September 2005 (UTC)


 * About the disambig page, that's a good idea, which I'll do once I get a reliable list of all the placees with the name (if somebody doesn't do first). But, my move was still an improvement.  Re-dirs show up very clearly in "What links here", and are quite easy to fix.  However, direct links to an entirely unrelated article, are rarely noticed.  --rob 13:00, 15 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, I am setting up the redirect page now with at least Toronto and Copenhagen. Cheers, Fawcett5 13:08, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that's great, and will help prevent future errors. It's probably what I should have done, and yes, I probably should have used the talk page first, before going ahead unilaterally.   Sorry, if I sounded high-handed. --rob 13:20, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Possible criticism section
Currently, I have stated that this article is written like an advertisement. There should be a criticism section to ensure a neutral point of view for this article. Johnny Au (talk) 19:05, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Five key divisions
QUOTING the article: "The Royal Conservatory operates with five key divisions:"

This is followed by six points. Is it meant to be 5 or 6?

Wanderer57 (talk) 02:27, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There are six categories. I fixed it.  Johnny Au (talk) 03:25, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Three pipe organs!
QUOTING THE ARTICLE: "The concert and recital halls of the College Street site were only partially replaced in the move, while the library, residence and all three pipe organs were lost."

How extraordinarily careless of them!

I think it would be a good idea to elaborate on what happened in this relocation.

Wanderer57 (talk) 12:30, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There should be a source for the three lost pipe organs. If the sources cannot be found, then remove them.  Additionally, I have merged the information from the RCM Examinations article into this article.  Johnny Au (talk) 14:51, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I found it. It is this website. Johnny Au (talk) 14:54, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

questions
QUOTING the article:

"RCM Examinations makes the high standards of the Royal Conservatory of Music curriculum available and accessible to students across North America through the RCM Examinations Certificate Program. It is a division of the Royal Conservatory of Music that is dedicated to administering the Certificate Program on the RCM curriculum. In this role it conducts examinations three times each year across Canada through a network of Examination Centres."

I have a few questions about this.

If the "curriculum" is available "across North America", why are the examinations only conducted "across Canada"?

In the sentence starting: "It is a division", to what does "It" refer?

Does "available" mean something significantly different from "accessible", or would one of these words suffice? Wanderer57 (talk) 04:56, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Rename page

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was move based on alternate proposal. Mind matrix  17:48, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Rename: Royal Conservatory of Music (Canada) → Royal Conservatory of Music (Toronto)

This page was renamed to its current title by Skeezix1000, on the basis that "[a]lthough located in Toronto, the school serves students across the entire country". That may be, but I don't think it's a sufficient reason to move it to this title. Every university serves students from across Canada, for example, and I don't think they should be disambiguated with the qualifier Canada. The location (city) of the conservatory should be the only qualifier for disambiguation. Mind matrix  17:11, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Support as nominator. Mind  matrix  17:11, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose. There is no ambiguity of the use of "Royal Conservatory of Music" within Canada, AFAIK, so I don't agree with the proposal.  I also refer to Royal Conservatory of Music, where the other RCMs in the world are also modified by the country name, rather than their cities.   PK  T  17:56, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Not true. Royal Conservatory of The Hague, Royal College of Music, Stockholm, and Madrid Conservatory all use the city name (some as part of the institution's title). London's conservatory uses the undisambiguated name, and Royal Irish Academy of Music includes Irish as part of its title, thus not requiring disambiguation. The only article in the set actually disambiguated with the country is this one. I'm not sure where you got the impression that all RCMs are disambiguated this way. Mind  matrix  20:01, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I misread the disambiguation page. Having read it more closely, I don't believe any modifier is needed for our Canadian RCM, as there doesn't seem to be another organization by the same name.  I am, however, willing to live with RCM (Canada).  PK  T  14:04, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose as per PKT: Further disambiguation than Canada is unnecessary. Also, though centred in Toronto, it is a national school that sets curriculum and grading standards used by many other institutions. Double Blue  (Talk) 19:49, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Other than government institutions, are there any other articles about buildings or institutions which are disambiguated this way? For schools, the recent practice was to use (City) or (City, Province), though I believe the format failed to get consensus because of disparate rules for different countries. Mind  matrix  20:01, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Articles on comparable institutions in Canada don't actually disambiguation (e.g. National Theatre School of Canada, National Ballet of Canada, National Ballet School), so there are no other precedents. However, I would suggest that any of these should similarly be disambiguated with "(Canada)" were it be necessary, and the RCM has an even more compelling case for the national disambiguation.  Skeezix1000 (talk) 12:14, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose and suggest alternate proposal. I disagree with Mindmatrix's analogy with every other university in the country.  Yes, universities serve students from across the country, but most of them will attend classes at the school's physical campus(es) (except for a few long-distance learners).  The RCM is a completely different animal, as most of its student base is located outside Toronto.  Tens of thousands of students stand for RCM exams every year in gymnasiums, music schools and community centres across the country.  Most RCM students never set foot in the Conservatory's Toronto facilities. It is a national institution in a way that, for example, the University of Toronto is not. Perhaps the solution here is to remove the disambiguation altogether.  Disambiguation is only required where two or more articles would qualify for the exact same title -- here, the disambiguation page at Royal Conservatory of Music doesn't contain any other institutions with the same name, just entries that would normally be subject to removal from the DAB page as per WP:MOSDAB.  Therefore, I propose Royal Conservatory of Music (Canada) → Royal Conservatory of Music, with Royal Conservatory of Music → Royal Conservatory of Music (disambiguation), with a hatnote placed at the top of this article linking to the DAB page.  Skeezix1000 (talk) 12:14, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, there's something I didn't notice. I agree with the alternate proposal. I'll mention it on the dab page. Mind  matrix  13:32, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I somehow missed that as well. It is an excellent point that no other institution has that exact name. I fully support Skeezix1000's proposal and will note it at Talk:Royal Conservatory of Music as well. Double Blue  (Talk) 17:21, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Support alternate proposal by Skeezix1000. DigitalC (talk) 06:46, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

New editor - would like to have article reviewed
I've made some changes to the article to make it more neutral. I've also added some more references (The Encyclopedia of Music in Canada). Can someone let me know how I can have the article reviewed and the warning removed? I'll continue working on some of the suggested changes found in this discussion. M. White Morwennaj (talk) 19:50, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your work. I believe it no longer qualifies for the advert issue tag and have removed it as any editor may upon correcting the issue. It still needs a great deal more references and I think the tone could be more encyclopedic so I still think it qualifies as a Start class article WP:ASSESS. If you are looking for an update on a quality assessment, you can generally ask the WikiProjects who have tagged the article as within their purview. Cheers! Double Blue  (Talk) 23:46, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Images
The image that was used in the infobox (File:RoyalConservatoryofMusic.JPG) is now badly out-of-date, given the significant expansion of the RCM building on Bloor Street. For the time being, I have replaced it with a close-up image of the heritage building (which does not show the entire building, and thus is "timeless" in a sense). However, we really need to upload some new images of the RCM, from both Bloor Street and Philosopher's Walk, to the RCM category over at the Commons for use in this article. Any photographers in Toronto with some time? --Skeezix1000 (talk) 14:40, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Copyright violations
Per WP:COPYVIO I have just deleted large portions of this page, which appear to have been copied from http://www.rcmexaminations.org/ (See About Us and College of Examiners), and http://www.rcmusic.ca/ContentPage.aspx?name=RCM_History in violation of their copyrights. They may be restored if evidence can be provided that this was done with the copyright holders' permission. --Rogerb67 (talk) 04:55, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Page rename
I suggest a page rename and adding "The" so the page title becomes The Royal Conservatory of Music. This is how RCM has been known throughout its history and there is a "The" in its current emblem. Mjk17 (talk) 18:43, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Image problems
Does anyone know why the images on this page are scheduled for deletion. They have been approved by the copyright holders who gave explicit permission for them to be uploaded onto Wikimedia Commons. Is there an extra piece of code that needs to be added to clartify the images' status? Mjk17 (talk) 18:43, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Mjk17, the reasons for the potential deletions have beeen explained to you several times. You should perhaps read the advice that you have already been given at the Commons.  It's really simple.  You cannot simply download images from the web with the claim that "I have permission to use these".  You claim that you have "explicit permission" to use the images, but you have yet to produce it.  Once the copyright holder(s) provides that permision, consistent with Wikimedia's licensing requirements and through OTRS, the problem will be solved and the images will not be deleted.    --Skeezix1000 (talk) 18:43, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Requested move
Royal Conservatory of Music → The Royal Conservatory of Music &mdash; "The" is a key element of The Royal Conservatory's of Music's name. It has been used throughout its history and is included in its current emblem. The "The" distinguishes it from other music schools with similar names. Mjk17 (talk) 21:24, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * No objection to move. We seem to have The New York Times and The Football Association, so adding "The" doesn't seem to be disallowed. Aubergine (talk) 01:26, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

There seems to be an issue with this move in that The Royal Conservatory of Music page already exists. How can I replace this page as it is simply a redirect and does not have any content on it? Mjk17 (talk) 13:56, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't worry about it. You have listed this move request at WP:RM, and at a certain point (usually after a week or so), an administrator will move the page and will address any issues arising from the existing redirect at The Royal Conservatory of Music.  You will log on one day soon and the page will have been moved for you.  --Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:26, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

past and present faculty
There used to be a comprehensive list of faculty members of the RCM, I would think this would be pertinent information. Who culled the list and what is your justification for removing the names of official faculty members ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rcmfaculty (talk • contribs)

Removing NPOV Dispute
Hey there!

We're making some edits and hoping the NPOV dispute can be removed. Any tips on how to expedite this? Does an editor have to read it over and make the call? How does the NPOV Dispute tag get removed from the main article page?

Thanks!

21:43, 29 January 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gotstyle (talk • contribs)

Merger proposal
I propose that Canadian Academy of Music be merged into The Royal Conservatory of Music. I think that the content in the Canadian Academy of Music article can easily be explained in the context of The Royal Conservatory of Music especially since the former was merged into the latter in 1924. Comments please. EncyclopediaUpdaticus (talk) 14:13, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 14:16, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Support merger . Mind  matrix  15:24, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Disagree. The Canadian Encyclopedia gives the Canadian Academy of Music its own entry separate from that of the Royal Conservatory and with good reason. There is plenty of more material on the Canadian Academy's thirteen year history which could be used to expand the article. For example, there were some notable performing groups associated with the conservatory that are not even mentioned in the article. I think a merger is likely to prevent this topic from being expanded any further. In addition, Canadian Academy had previously merged with another conservatory which also has an article on wikipedia. That whole history is likely to get muddled with merging the articles.4meter4 (talk) 12:59, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, but 7+ months later and Canadian Academy of Music has not been significantly expanded and it remains single sourced. The Canadian Encyclopedia article is itself short.  Right now the history of these former institutions is muddled on Wikipedia, and would benefit from consolidation in this article.  Having separate stubs does not help the reader. Any merger would, of course, be without prejudice to someone who wanted to later create a History of The Royal Conservatory of Music article or significantly expanded Canadian Academy of Music.--Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:24, 11 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Disagree per 4meter4. --Omnipaedista (talk) 16:15, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Have left a note at WP:CANTALK for further input so we can eventually wrap this up. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:24, 11 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Of note, a merge now does not preclude a later split if the article(s) should develop to the point where it becomes ideal in the future to restore a separate page for the old Canadian Academy. Resolute 15:27, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

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Honorary Fellows of The Royal Conservatory since 2016?
The section Honorary Fellows of The Royal Conservatory begins in 1990 and ends at 2016. Did they stop giving this honor in 2016 or are we just out of date? RJFJR (talk) 21:57, 25 March 2020 (UTC)