Talk:The Sandman: Worlds' End

Make it better
argh. someone please make this better. i'm damned if i can write something good on the prez story and the litharge story in an even vaguely small amount of space. i'm sure SOMEONE can. AW.

AW - World's end is a number of other things. Some of which are probably more notable than this one. Disambiguation requried.

Indeed. There are many pubs named the World's End, including one in Camden Town. Perhaps "World's End (The Sadman)". BTW, is is "Sandman" or "The Sandman"? I'm not sure. I've never really understood the Prez story -- either its relevance to the rest of the collection, or its ending which left me with the feeling of being unfinished. -- Tarquin

OK, will disambiguate to Worlds' End (Sandman) in a bit. Please note it really IS Worlds' End, not World's End. It's The Sandman (check the spines of the collections). (I notice the last two sentences are a bit odd as counterpoints, but I disambiguated Brief Lives to Brief Lives (Sandman), so may as well keep consistency.) The Prez story is rather nice, I think, but leans rather heavily on America as a subject. I could write a rather good 3000 word essay on it but i'm a bit stuck for a paragraph. :) --AW.


 * The Prez story leans so heavily on America because it's a re-use of an old, long-retired character who was, in fact, this "all-American" golden boy who was elected President in his own short-lived comic. It's kind of built into the character, so as far as analyzing Sandman itself goes, it's more a matter of why that character was chosen. I suppose there's rather a lack of Messianic-yet-unpowered characters in the history of comics, and Prez just fit. Nerrin 08:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to mintguy for yelling a bit about World's / Worlds'. it's late, i'm tired. it's all fixed now, no problem. :) --AW.

Reorganize storylines
I've created a proposal to reorganize the Sandman articles by story arc instead of by trade paperback. My full proposal and discussion on the issue can be found at Talk:The Sandman (Vertigo).--Marcus Brute (talk) 00:12, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

AW - Every reference I've found to this calls it "World's End", Even on Neil Gaimen's own site. http://www.neilgaiman.com/about/cv_comics.asp. The cover art says "Worlds' End" though. Mintguy

That site also says "Onieros" for "Oneiros". What do the publishers say, or the catalogue of a copyright library? -- Tarquin


 * Out of interest, tried my university library (cambridge, we're one of the UK deposit libraries), whose search appears to have just been redesigned to be 100% less usable. they don't seem to have the sandman books on file. anyone know if library of congress is publically searchable? AW

DC Comics call it "World's End" - http://www.dccomics.com/directcurrents/comics/1-56389-171-9.htm Mintguy

Mintguy - then all your sources are wrong. But it's clearly not your fault for trying to correct, although it illustrates the dangers of secondary sources. I'm sitting next to my first edition copy of the Worlds' End collection, and I previously owned the most recent softback reprint; both call it Worlds' End. It is clear from the actual story why it is called this. The story is set at an inn which is not the inn at the end of the world but at the end of the *worlds*, hence the name is in fact grammatically correct. IIRC, the bibliography on Gaiman's site isn't written by himself or anyone directly related to Sandman, and contains a few typos and errors, though it's generally good.

I'm not sure re Oneiros. I got it from memory. I'll have to find the issue where the name is used and check up. --AW

"Oneiros" is correct. Sorry, I didn't make myself clear: I mentioned that as evidence that that site is not letter-perfect, not as another correction for the articles here. I don't remember noticing the apostrophe. "Worlds" plural makes more sense given the story. -- Tarquin

I don't have my copies with me to check, or I would change it myself. Isn't it The Cluracan, (The being part of his name?) Vik-Thor

Good point. I think you're right. --AW

Isn't the World's End in Camden an inspiration for Sandman the World's End? Number 0 16:05, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

=Indian passenger= I was just wondering about this, if anyone knew? At one point in the story Hob refers to him as one of his own, saying that there are little enough as is... Does anyone know what he could be referencing? Were they perhaps related in anyway? Was he also an immortal? What do you think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.45.131.171 (talk) 00:13, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, IMHO the Indian passenger in fact is the King in the story he tells, having lived tup to that point after eating the immortality fruit.

=Zero Hour connection= I've seen mention on this and some other Wikipedia pages that there's a connection between this and the events of the Green Lantern "Zero Hour" storyline. Can anyone relate the specifics? Nerrin 00:18, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I was wondering about this too. The two storylines do overlap chronologically, but I always assumed the funeral procession was a foreshadowing not a funeral for Green Lantern. I just don't really see to two as related. Can anyone find an interview or article proving this connection?


 * I don't have my copy here, but Morpheus is notably not in the procession, correct? Gaiman had dropped major superhero cameos at that point. (By A Game of You, even, when he wasn't allowed to use Bizarros, I think, but I'd have to pull out the references there.) It would be out of place to halt the Sandman storyline to bury a superhero who hadn't played any part in the series. Bjart 00:08, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The only connection I can find seems to be that the reality storm that drove so many to the inn is a reflection of the minor continuity reboot that went on with Zero Hour. Alterations to the DC Universe created the storm and so people went to the Worlds' End to ride out the storm. No direct connection to any of the stories or to the funeral procession. Or so it seems. Nerrin 07:58, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I was confused by the Zero Hour Reference in the article myself. I had always thought the funeral procession was foreshadowing Morpheus' death in The Kindly Ones story arc which took place after Worlds' End. I was a comic book retailer at the time and after looking through some old promotinal material (i.e. Previews, Advance Comics) and I can't see anywhere it was referred to or marketed as a Zero Hour tie-in (Which most mainstream DC titles were). It was alway my impression that after the Vertigo line was launched, that there was not any mainstream allusion in vertigo title and vise versa. -Nick Hudson


 * I find any connection between this story arc and "Zero Hour" to be wishful thinking. This story, IIRC, was published a good year before "Zero Hour". The "Reality Storm" seems to be related to the upcoming death of Morpheus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.213.251.93 (talk) 02:38, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

If it helps, there is a later mention: Destiny in chapter 11 of the kindly ones says to himself that Dream's death will cause a reality storm - it seems much more likely than a random superhero funeral — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.102.142.114 (talk) 22:21, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

I removed the reference to Zero Hour from the opening paragraph of this page, as well as the reference on the main Sandman page. It's an interesting theory, but I don't think it makes sense based on the text - the obvious reading that it's fallout from Dream's death makes much more sense. But even if it made perfect sense, it's still just a fan theory, and it shouldn't be included so prominently - it makes people think that it's sourced from Gaiman or DC editorship or something. If someone thinks it's important enough, create a separate section, and clearly label it as a fan theory. 98.218.220.48 (talk) 15:30, 26 January 2016 (UTC) Oops, sorry, wasn't logged in when I signed... Simnel (talk) 15:32, 26 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I always thought it was related to Zero Hour, and there are definitely references across the internet to it (eg http://www.studioremarkable.com/reviews/the-sandman-reader-ix-worlds-end/10469/), although I’ve been scouring for a definitive answer from Neil Gaiman or someone without much success. Joeldelusional (talk) 19:53, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

The Waitress
Has someone noticed that the waitress that shows up on the very end of the story, to whom the story is being told, wears a pingent in her necklace pretty similar to the one given to Nuala by Larissa? Would she be Nuala herself or maybe Larissa? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.68.102.78 (talk) 06:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Wonderfully observed! Indeed, they do look very similar, but I cannot find any conclusive evidence to confirm. I wondered if it was Thessaly, and/or perhaps the woman who gave Nuala the necklace (given the flexibility of chronology in the series). I checked The Sandman companion and came up with the following: on page 248, Bender asks Gaiman (of the "female bartender....who bears a definite resemblance to Thessaly") "...there's no mention of who the woman is in the story, and there's not even a hint of it in your script for the issue. Any comment?" Gaiman responds: "No, I'll leave that determination up to the reader. Sometimes a character is best left unnamed." I am sure there is a convincing case to be made for Thessaly or Nuala, but I think no comment should be made on the page assigning authorial intent. Cfsibley (talk) 18:58, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Ref watch
I've long been convinced that 'A Tale of Two Cities' is borrowing at least a little from early episodes of The Invisibles; if people could keep an eye out (or show that the chronology doesn't work - both are '94, but I don't know any more specific than that) for refs linking the two, that'd be great. --Gwern (contribs) 19:50 25 March 2009 (GMT)

Synopsis
Does it seem necessary to mention Death in the Synopsis? I think not. Ideas? If it does seem necessary, can someone please help with improving the wording "sadly"? I am out of ideas, and it seems a radically oversimplified analysis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cfsibley (talk • contribs) 18:40, 1 November 2012 (UTC)