Talk:The Secret Policeman's Ball

Untitled
Source moved from article: "Some of the information used here is derived from the DVD collection's booklet."

Name
Firstly, does anyone know where the name of the shows comes from? I'm sure it would be an interesting addition to the article.

Also, the DVD and other sources refer to the events as The Secret Policeman's Ball, not Balls: the current article title might be inaccurate. As it stands, the title seems to refer to a policeman's balls, as opposed to a ball.

--anskas 03:22, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

It seems pretty clear from the context (the performers and the era) that the oblique reference to testicles is an intentional in-joke. No, I myself can't provide a reference for that, but I'll be shocked if nobody can. 66.58.240.20 (talk) 08:15, 16 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I assume that the title of this article comes from the fact that there were more than one Amnesty International concert with "The Secret Policeman's Ball" within the title &mdash; and, because this article deals with all of the Amnesty concerts, instead of a single concert.
 * Therefore, the article page is probably called "The Secret Policeman's Balls" to indicate "plural" for more than one concert, and to avoid confusion with people thinking that the article was dealing only with the single "The Secret Policeman's Ball" concert. The Amnesty concerts include the following:


 * "Pleasure at Her Majesty's" &mdash; also known as "A Poke in the Eye (With a Sharp Stick") (1976)
 * "Mermaid Frolics" (1977)
 * "The Secret Policeman's Ball" (1979)
 * "The Secret Policeman's Other Ball" (1981)
 * "The Secret Policeman's Third Ball" (1987)
 * "The Secret Policeman's Biggest Ball" (1989)


 * Hope this helps.


 * Incidentally, all of the above listed concerts are on DVD in "The Secret Policeman's Ball" boxed set.


 * The concerts are very enjoyable &mdash; and every DVD sold helps Amnesty International. Figaro 03:46, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Got some more info on this. I'm working on a revision of the article with a lot more info I've discovered in the liner notes of some record and CD releases of material from the shows. Plus  books and press interviews.  Including the origin of the title etc etc.  Hope to have it up very soon.  Davidpatrick 06:08, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The Title should be changed, it sounds like a gay adult film. --Yancyfry jr 20:19, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * What about something like The Amnesty Comedy Concerts?


 * The article would need to be 'moved' to retain the full editing history of the article, as well as the discussion (talk) page and its full editing history.


 * If this is agreeable, I could 'move' the page - and then change all of the links (on other article pages) which have links which lead to this article, so that the links would be accurate (if the article was 'moved', the present title of "The Secret Policeman's Balls" would automatically redirect to the new title). Figaro 02:44, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

This requires some thought before deciding on a change. First of all - the "Secret Policeman's" title is extremely well known. Secondly the benefit shows (not concerts) are much much more than comedy shows (though that's how they started out). They became as iconic for the music as for comedy. Thirdly their influence on others who followed the tradition (eg Bono, Sting, Bob Geldof) is always attributed to some mention of the "Secret Policeman's Ball" title.

In favor of keeping the current article title: The exact wording in the current article title has been used with some humor to describe the series. eg it showed up spoken by Don Pardo in the 1982 US film. And it reflects the Python humor.

If a consensus develops to change the article title (and speaking for myself I'm open to the idea) my 2 cents is that if we do so - it has to be for the right name.

I would consider some of these:

• The Secret Policeman's Ball benefits

• The Secret Policeman's Ball benefit shows

• The Secret Policeman's Ball series

• The Secret Policeman's Ball shows

Note that there are already two pages (of necessity) called "The Secret Policeman's Ball". One for the original 1979 show. The Secret Policeman's Ball (1979) And the other for the new show coming in October The Secret Policeman's Ball (2006) which has been given the identical title.

Other thoughts?

Davidpatrick 03:23, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * And, for my 2 cents worth I think, if a title change is decided upon for the article, that either your second title suggestion of "The Secret Policeman's Ball benefit shows", or your fourth title suggestion of "The Secret Policeman's Ball shows", would be an excellent choice to be adopted for the new title. Figaro 09:33, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

The name comes from the joke.

"a policeman arrests a protester and the protester says 'I'm not buying any tickets' the copper replies 'what do you mean, tickets?' the protester says 'to the policeman's ball, the last guy that grabbed me wanted money off me for tickets to the policeman's ball' the copper replies 'don't be stupid policemen don't have balls' " Unfortunately I have no source for this which is a shame because it does belong in the article.Schnizzle (talk) 14:36, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Alternative titles
Been doing some more research - and some more thinking about it.

BTW - the article was called just "The Secret Policeman's Ball" till approx. July 2005 - when it was realized that that title wasn't broad enough to cover all the various events over the years. And the title changed to "Balls"

As to the prospective alternate titles I've suggested:

I agree that #1 wouldn't work too well. "benefits" is an ambiguous word when used on its own.

And #3 could be confusing. Though it has become a series of shows/events. "Series" often connotes a TV series. so without a qualifying word it probably doesn't work.

I think #4 is ok - but it doesn't cover the breadth of what the events became. ie very successful movies, TV specials & albums etc. Comparatively few people attended the actual shows in the theatres. Very large numbers of people have seen the movies, TV shows and heard the albums. So I think "shows" doesn't cover it sufficiently.

I think that #2 does have some merits. The word "benefits" is in a context. There is still the matter that the word "shows" sound more ordinary than one senses these events were.

I've been looking in a lot of resources and I've discovered that the original events were not described as "shows" at all. They were always described as being a "gala". ie grand festive occasions - that were very special and not like ordinary shows at all.

I'm mindful that we don't want the title to be too many words - but on the other hand - the first four words are essential.

So how about choosing from among these:

• The Secret Policeman's Ball benefit shows

• The Secret Policeman's Ball shows

• The Secret Policeman's Ball galas

• The Secret Policeman's Ball benefit galas

• The Secret Policeman's Ball benefit series

Davidpatrick 05:40, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Out of the above selection of titles, I like the title "The Secret Policeman's Ball benefit shows" best.


 * With regard to the other suggested titles:


 * Because of its similarity, the word 'gala' makes me think of the Australian slang term 'galah' (please see the article about our Australian bird, the Galah, regarding this term).


 * The word 'series' reminds me more of a television series than a 'sequence' of shows, and seems to dim the significance of its meaning and the benefits they had for Amnesty.


 * Figaro 22:35, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

What about choosing from one of the following titles:


 * The Secret Policeman's Ball Amnesty benefit shows
 * The Secret Policeman's Ball - Amnesty benefit shows

Figaro 21:46, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

First of all - I appreciate you getting back on this. It is truly difficult.

The trouble with those two suggestions is that they take the number of words in the article title to seven. Which I think is just too long. My longest suggestions were six words - and I was thinking THOSE were too long. I have toyed with dispensing with the word "THE" - but it's an integral part of that title. The other problem is that while the shows are indeed benefits for Amnesty and some people know that - not everyone does - nor would look them up under such a cumbersome title. Especially bearing in mind that the original shows were turned into successful movies and record albums that reached a lot of people internationally who may not have been as aware of the charity element of the original shows as the UK audience. So while I appreciate the thought - I don't think they solve the problem.

I'm still concerned that the word "shows" (or even "galas") relate just to the original stage events and don't encompass the breadth of what the "SPB" phenomenon has become. Between TV, film, albums, books etc etc - that is how most people have experienced "SPB". I thought about calling the article "The Secret Policeman's Ball fundraisers" but closer examination indicates that in several cases they were as much about raising consciousness as raising funds.

So at present I am in favor of keeping the current article title. I disagree with the person who thought that the title sounded like a "gay adult title"! The pun nature of the title has been in the public consciousness for 30 years now... Davidpatrick 22:52, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you Davidpatrick for replying to my comments. I appreciate it.  And, like you, I think that the current title is best and should be retained. Figaro 10:52, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Haha! My original comment was intended as a lighthearted and sarcastic remark, and I am amazed at the responses. I guess everyone's interest is a testament to the success of the shows/galas/benefit shows/concerts/et al. :-). There are some very interesting suggestions, but I agree with Davidpatrick's argument, that basically none of the proposed titles truly encompass the phenomenon that is SPB(s). Also, I'm sure John Cleese and Peter Cook and the like would vote to maintain this amusing title!!! —anskas 23:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

This article should be named The Secret Policeman's Ball since it's about all of the events with this name. The articles about specific balls should include the year the balls took place (e.g. The Secret Policeman's Ball (1979), The Secret Policeman's Ball (2006). Unless someone objects, I'll move the page in a few days. Pburka (talk) 21:02, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:The-Secret-Policemans-Ball.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 02:54, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

New Name?
Just reading this article title made me laugh. Please, someone see sense and change it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.199.136 (talk) 16:37, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

It's an article about a series of shows/films that are primarily comedy events. So making you laugh is not inappropriate! Since the article title is accurate and relates to a series of events of that name that have been running for nearly 30 years - the logic behind your anonymous suggestion is rather elusive. Davidpatrick (talk) 13:44, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

1986 Festival
Also had ...

Big Audio Dynamite .... Candy (talk) 15:02, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Name
The 1979 show in the article is repeated cited as being the show that gave the concerts name. Why. this needs to be includedCurb Chain (talk) 00:12, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 8 February 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. No comment on potential mergers, as they were only discussed by two of the five participants. Number  5  7  15:06, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

– The title is simply not accurate. You wouldn't entitle the article about the Super Bowl as "Super Bowls". The logo and other media (including books about history of event, etc) call it The Secret Policeman's Ball (singular). The ONE and ONLY time it was used was for the 2009 compilation DVD, in which case, it seems to have been done to be humorous. The 2014 book was called The Very Best of... The Secret Policeman's Ball: The Greatest Comedy Line-up Ever .. not "Balls". Yes, the pluralized version is funny, but odd looking. And it appears the move was done without a proper consensus. Wikimandia (talk) 10:27, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The Secret Policeman's Balls → The Secret Policeman's Ball
 * The Secret Policeman's Ball → The Secret Policeman's Ball (disambiguation)
 * The Secret Policeman's Balls mediagraphy → The Secret Policeman's Ball mediagraphy


 * Comment, another issue is that SOME events have individual articles, as do some films, some LPs (not especially the most notable ones). These are often stubs, or do little more than repeat main page info. I spent a few days trying to evolve a tidy-up strategy, but gave up. The rename seems apt, but more drastic tidy may be needed Pincrete (talk) 12:26, 8 February 2015 (UTC) … … trivial ps, it's just as funny singular, the title originates from an ancient UK joke … "Would you like to buy a ticket for the Policeman's Ball?" … "No, I can't dance." … "It's not a dance, it's a raffle!" Pincrete (talk) 12:47, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Items for tidy include: The Secret Policeman's Ball (1979), Pleasure at Her Majesty's, A Poke in the Eye (With a Sharp Stick) (these two about same show) and The Secret Policeman's Balls (DVD box set), this DVD set has its own page, but is not listed on the mediagraphy page, many individual pages linked from main page are little more than stubs.Pincrete (talk) 14:29, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I definitely support the merge. The Pleasure at Her Majesty's isn't sufficiently different to warrant its own article. I added a discussion here Talk:A Poke in the Eye (With a Sharp Stick) if anyone cares to actually discuss it. Shouldn't be too controversial. When I get some money I'll buy that 2014 book about all the shows and see if I can't sort it all out, expanding stubs etc. Wikimandia (talk) 18:12, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Have done quite a bit of pruning/fixing today, inc. adding 'Main article' links, now perhaps it will be easier to see what is where. Pincrete (talk) 19:23, 8 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Support evidently singular. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:07, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Support for at any given time the Secret Policeman holds but one ball. 166.171.59.224 (talk) 17:15, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * As part of this general tidy up, I have proposed a merge of The Secret Policeman's Balls (DVD box set) with The Secret Policeman's Balls mediagraphy.Pincrete (talk) 18:41, 11 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Support for reasons given by Wikimandia.Pincrete (talk) 00:15, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merge 'box set' with mediagraphy
Merge The Secret Policeman's Balls (DVD box set) with The Secret Policeman's Balls mediagraphy I think I may have gone about the merge of these two article (technically) wrongly, if anyone knows how to fix this, please go ahead. Pincrete (talk) 21:37, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070928153204/http://www.artforamnesty.com/view_event.php?id=4 to http://www.artforamnesty.com/view_event.php?id=4
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External links modified
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Etymology
Need a reference for this, obviously, but my understanding is that when offering a bribe to a british uniformed police officer, one purchases tickets to the policeman's ball. Hence the name. Paul Murray (talk) 04:04, 10 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The most commonly cited explanation for the title is an old UK joke "Would you like to buy a ticket for the policeman's ball? ... No I can't dance. ....It isn't a dance, it's a raffle!" … … … 'Secret' simply adds a surreal touch to a schoolboy joke. Pincrete (talk) 16:49, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

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