Talk:The Shape of Things to Come (Lost)

Episode name?
I have found on some places that the ninth episode is called 'Bakir'. I have no idea if this is wrong or not... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.105.221.196 (talk) 09:43, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


 * That is wrong. The producers confirmed "The Shape of Things to Come" in an official podcast, which is linked to in the article.  – thedemonhog   talk  •  edits  17:46, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Does the episode name have anything to do with the Yes song "Survival", because the first two verses of that song are: "Sunshine is creeping in and somewhere in a field a life begins, An egg too proud to rape the beginning of a shape of things to come". I was just wondering if anyone knew the actual reason for the name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.28.216.65 (talk) 17:31, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * A podcast confirmed that the title comes from the H.G. Wells book. – thedemonhog   talk  •  edits  22:40, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Picture
Can we find a more Ben-centric photo for the main pic? Like him in the flash-forward or him with Alex?--CyberGhostface (talk) 14:45, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If no one has any problems with this, when I get home I'll try enhancing a screenshot of Ben and uploading it.--CyberGhostface (talk) 18:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I would prefer something along the lines of this. What do others think?  Re: I was going to be bold (making that picture less relevant or at least with an incorrect caption), but then decided to discuss it here first.  – thedemonhog   talk  •  edits  00:22, 19 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't have a problem with it.--CyberGhostface (talk) 00:49, 19 May 2008 (UTC)


 * It? – thedemonhog   talk  •  edits  01:01, 19 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry. I meant I don't have a problem with the new picture.--CyberGhostface (talk) 01:12, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Cerberus
The smoke monster is listed as Cerberus? Has that been confirmed? --soum talk 15:47, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Darlton at Comic-Con, I think. Sceptre (talk) 15:49, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I stand corrected. But Mythology of Lost should say this if the name is going to be used. --soum talk 15:57, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * According to Lostpedia, Darlton said that Cerberus is what Kelvin and Radzinsky and possibly the whole DHARMA Initiative called the monster. Because it hasn't ever been explicitly stated on the show or other canonical sources, I don't think we should call it Cerberus. Jackieboy87 (talk) 17:03, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Piano song
Is it worth noting in the article that the song that Ben is playing on the piano is Prelude in C# Minor, by Sergei Rachmaninoff? I happen to know this for a fact. 151.203.80.125 (talk) 02:57, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The song seems unimportant and if we were to mention it, you would need a reliable source. – thedemonhog   talk  •  edits  22:39, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Some questions
"Ben, John Locke (Terry O'Quinn), and Hugo "Hurley" Reyes (Jorge Garcia) fortify Ben's house, while James "Sawyer" Ford (Josh Holloway) goes to retrieve the other survivors in the Barracks. He is partially successful: he saves Claire Littleton (Emilie de Ravin) from her exploded and burning house, but Doug (Sean Douglas Hoban), Jerome (Jim Mazzarella) and at least one other (Dakota L.) are shot dead by the mercenaries." (1) Sawyer goes to retrieve other survivors? It was my understanding that he just rushed off to find Claire, who he knew was sleeping. (2) Do we need a source for Doug and Jerome being killed? I'm not so hardcore a fan as to keep lists of the extras with their names, but how do we know their names? Lostpedia asserts that Jerome's name is mentioned in a transcript, but no mention of Doug. (3) How do we know "Dakota L." plays the now-dead extra, if we don't even know the character's name? — 97198   talk  08:05, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll add some sources tomorrow later. – thedemonhog   talk  •  edits  10:37, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * ? — 97198   talk  07:06, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, sorry. I will get to it eventually.  – thedemonhog   talk  •  edits  07:26, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * On the latest podcast, DL and CC said that the second guy was Steve, but it may have been in jest. Jackieboy87 (talk) 12:42, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The second guy was not Steve, as Steve is dead and the actor is different. Anyway, I could not find unquestionably reliable sources so I removed the actors' names (and the characters' names as we only know two out of three and they are unimportant).  Sorry that I took so long; I have been busy (in real life) and then lazy (on Wikipedia) this month.  – thedemonhog   talk  •  edits  22:37, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

GA Nomination
I hereby pass The Shape of Things to Come (Lost) as a Good Article. I find it is extraordinarily well written for a televsion show episode article (as most of them are- well, I'll be pleasant and say "awful.") The production description is especially extraoridnary and kudos to Thedemonhog for nominating it.  K C  109  16:55, 18 May 2008 (UTC).


 * Article does meet the Good Article criteria, though moving forward, it would be a good idea to complete a good copyedit of the article. While the prose is acceptable, there's a couple of areas that could use tightening up (e.g. "It was aired"), as well as a few missing commas. There are also two images that, while acceptably tagged, need to have a fair use rationale added to the image description. Other than that, good work. Dr. Cash (talk) 19:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Copyediting
I'm currently a bit under halfway through the copyedit so far. As I've neither seen the episode or the series as a whole, I'll need you to guide me a bit in cleaning it up. Is there anything you see that I might've missed that needs to be fixed before nominating it? -- Mizu onna sango15 / Discuss 05:54, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Here are my latest changes. I explained the "capture" and removed "own" from "his own".  The dialogue is something like: "That island is mine.  It always was and always will be."  The rest looks good so far, – thedemonhog   talk  •  edits  06:09, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll continue to do some more fixing (as I find it), but so far attempts have been rather fruitless. Thanks, -- Mizu onna sango15 / Discuss 06:21, 26 June 2008 (UTC).
 * Also, continuing to check with the criteria. Looks good so far, what do you think? -- Mizu onna sango15 / Discuss 06:24, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Dharka image

 * < Moved from User talk:SandyGeorgia> Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 15:15, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

This promotion kind of knocked me sideways, the image Image:Dharka.jpg seems to be there for decoration, in breach of wp:nfcc#3 and FA criteria 3. The image was chosen to "replace" an image of a rock quarry, but the images seem to convey entirely different information, and the only replacement I can see is for the decorative functions, which is prohibited under Fair use guidelines. I was going to submit this article for FAR, but I thought I better check with you what I was missing. Fasach Nua (talk) 07:31, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * To check what you're missing, it's discussion of the matter on the article talk page or with the article nominator. Recently promoted articles can't be brought to FAR, and even if you waited six months to bring it to FAR, a FAR over one image would likely be dismissed as an inappropriate use of FAR.  Every image reviewer who reviews FACs comes to different conclusions: the nominator switched the images initially objected to and no one objected.  Discussion on the article talk page, or wherever images are discussed and image people actually come to consensus is indicated.  That's the best we can do unless more editors are willing to review images, and in the absence of concurrence among the different reviewers.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 15:41, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * For what it's worth, Fasach Nua, I agree with you. The proper venue, however, would probably be the talk page, as Sandy suggested, or WP:FUR or WP:IFD.  In terms of traffic, IFD might would get the most eyes, but, in all venues, editors knowledgeable and willing to evaluate images are rare creatures.  ЭLСОВВОLД  talk 15:50, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, ec; we didn't have these issues when you were reviewing, but I understand the rudeness wore you down. Without you there, I can only go by what's written on the page, and it's often contradictory, depending on who's reviewing.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 15:54, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * You cannot have an article's Featured status reviewed before something close to six months pass from its elevation to said status; it would make the promotion discussion seem pointless. I believe such issues are to be resolved in the article's talk page. Waltham, The Duke of 13:37, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it's three months, isn't it? Even then, sooner if there's a good reason. See FAR/C instructions. TONY   (talk)  14:13, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Featured article review: "Three to six months is regarded as the minimum time between promotion and nomination here, unless there are extenuating circumstances such as a radical change in article content."
 * So, the question is: "Is the change of the image so radical as to justify a premature FAR?" Waltham, The Duke of 15:20, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The change was made twenty hours before the FAC closed, and there was stated concern regarding the image use in this article. It's true no-one objected to the new image, and given the time scale, that doesnt seem unreasonable. The question is did the article meet the featured article criteria (specifically criteria 3) at the time of promotion? Fasach Nua (talk) 07:31, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I see you have yet to raise this issue with the nominator, on the article talk page, or at either of the places recommended above by Elcobbola, so I'm moving this topic to the talk page, where it belongs. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 15:15, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Sandy. I cannot say too much right now, as I will be leaving for a one-month vacation in less than an hour.  Fasach Nua, do not bother taking this to FAR.  It is a small problem and will be a waste of time on everyone's part.  Feel free to take it to XfD and if it is really bothering you, just remove it from the article and it will be orphaned and subsequently deleted.  Bye, – thedemonhog   talk  •  edits  03:59, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Time travel (sort of) confirmed by producers
Lindelof and Cuse confirm in the audio commentary for There's No Place Like Home that Ben wakes up in the Sahara after turning the wheel, although they don't specifically mention time travel. I am unsure how to work this into the article, specifically where, because it takes place in a later episode, which is why I'm wary of putting in the plot section. Many people will inexorably claim that it spoils later episodes (especially if we mention moving the island) and that it doesn't belong here even though the information is relevant. So anyone willing to be bold can use this ref. --Jackieboy87 (talk · contribs) 03:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Why does it have to be mentioned in this article? Is that information not more suitable for that of the finale?  – thedemonhog   talk  •  edits  05:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Doesn't it add to the real world context of this episode, in that it would tell the reader when the flashforwards take place in relation to the events of the season finale? --Jackieboy87 (talk · contribs) 19:07, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It already says that the flashforwards are in October and the main story is in December…? – thedemonhog   talk  •  edits  00:01, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Guest stars
The guest stars in the infobox need to have their characters listed. Ophois (talk) 16:44, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

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