Talk:The Smiling, Proud Wanderer

Names
Are the character names from the 3rd edition? Because some of the characters are wrong if the names are taken from the 2nd edition... For example, it's 劉正風 not 劉正峰﹐and 封不平 not 風不平. (January 22, 2006) I've fixed the Chinese characters. ---LWC


 * Not sure. Please leave messages at the end, and use section dividers. Thanks. -- Миборовский U 23:07, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

"Smiling Proud Wanderer"
"Smiling Proud Wanderer" is a terrible translation.

--LWC

Actually, I always thought the better translation would be "That Carefree Martial Art Guy" Suredeath 05:53, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

The term "Xiao Ao Jiang Hu" is an idiom, it doesn't mean to laugh at anything. See here for the definition. It annoys me to see the title get wrongly transferred into English. http://140.111.34.46/cgi-bin/dict/GetContent.cgi?Database=dict&DocNum=98679&GraphicWord=yes&QueryString=笑傲江湖 --LWC


 * Xiao - laughing, carefree
 * Ao - proud, overpowering, dominating
 * Jianghu - pugilistic world/circle
 * ie. "Carefree domination of the pugilistic world". Doesn't sound good in English does it? -- Миборовский U 07:37, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

The Thai translation was "Laughing in the face of Martial art world/custom", something like that.Suredeath 15:04, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, that's just another translation isn't it? :p -- Миборовский U 18:04, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Just in case I may get into an edit war with someone over ninja fiasco. The book always referred to these individual as the "masked men". Not a word of Ninja can be derived from this book. They just dressed in black. Furthermore, Ninja has nothing to do with China but a really really farfetch cousin whose existence is still doubtful "Lin Kuei".

http://www.illuminatedlantern.com/cinema/features/ninja.html--Suredeath 02:41, 2 September 2005 (UTC)


 * You're a bit too insecure to upgrade this into a "fiasco" after 2 reverts and 1 talkpage entry. I was talking about the English translation, not the original Chinese. I think the English translation translated it as Ninja. And yes, Ninjas are from China, but this is beyond the point here. And no, this isn't worth getting into a revert war with. -Hmib 10:20, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

English translation used "masked men"--Suredeath 11:23, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * OK. -Hmib 17:36, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

- Inserted Chinese names for certain characters missing them, and added some info about the Hengshan (Nun) Sect and fixed some pinyin errors in the article. --LWC

Jin yong's worst novel
Full of flaws and sh**. Can't believe Mr. Jin yong wrote this story. No word on why the Dugu's nine sword has been learnt by the old master. But that's somewhat acceptable. He portraits Linghu Chong as a crybaby who keep beeging his master to allow him back, blindly not seeing his master's evil. He also knows Yi Lin loves him so much, and he ignores it outright! Mr. Jin yong also knows how much the beautiful nun loves him, and she's also the one knowing him best, and he kicks her out by creating Ren Yingying, which make serious readers with a heart will so sorry for Yi Lin thruout the story. Usually, Mr. jin yong is very sensitive and delicate when it comes to love, but this time, he blows it all to hell! I have to say that apart from the unacceptable character design, the storyline is the best of jin yong's novels, but best + worst = bad! Hoefully someday Mr. Jin yong rewrites this story.


 * The Old Master is an experienced, well-traveled character. So if Jin Yong wants to explain it, all he has to do is add one sentence like, "The old guy was visiting [insert a mountain] when he chanced upon Dugu's nine sword." So it's not a big deal.
 * Linghu Chong's master raised him since he was a kid. It's the only family and home he has. Of course he loves and respect his master. Most people overlook the flaws of those close to them. Especially when the whole world refer to the guy as "The Gentleman Sword." His own wife, who shares a bed with him every night doesnt know he's a bad guy until the end. So it's not impossible that Linghu Chong doesnt know his master is evil. Heck, even the readers dont know until later in the novel.
 * As far as his love life goes, it's not the first time females are overlooked by the protagonist in a Jin Yong novel. Lu Wushuang, Cheng Ying, Gongsun Lü'e, and Guo Xiang love Yang Guo but their loves were unreturned. Guo Fu realized that she has always has a crush on Yang Guo at the end of the novel, but she suppressed her feeling because she was then a married woman. In the In Sword Stained with Royal blood, the one-armed princess went off alone. When she made a cameo in The Duke of Mount Deer, it's mentioned that she still misses him. Princess Fragrance died in The Book and the Sword. Yin Li and Xiaozhao did not fare any better in Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber.
 * - Elsonlam1 18 July 2008 —Preceding comment was added at 23:43, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't agree they are plot holes. More like plot devices. I wasn't bothered by not knowing how Old Master Fung learnt Dugu nine sword. To me, he wasn't the focus. At that part of the story, I was more wrapped up by Ling Hu's progress and how he tricked Tian than how or where the Master came from. I don't think it would have been a good idea to settle his history in one line. That would not do it justice. To give a detailed backstory might affect the pace of Ling Hu's training. I think it was an excellent idea to leave it as a mystery (I'm still wondering what Old Master Fung ate on the mountain all those years...).

And no Ling Hu's not a cry baby. He does cry a lot but I liked that side of his character. It makes him more rounded - the type of guy who'll laugh when he wants, cry when he wants and not fake emotion like his Master. Note also that the first concrete sign of his Master being evil was at the meeting for the merging of the 5 clans. That was already quite late into the story. And Ling Hu didn't hear that conversation between Lin PingZhi and LingShan about how his Master stole the BiXie Manual. Only YingYing heard. Ling Hu's persistent respect for his Master despite everything shows his unwavering gratitude towards those who showed him affection and his believe in fillial duty. This makes him more a man rather than less.

I think the storyline with Yi Lin is acutally one of Jin Yong's best. It was quite clear from the start that her relationship with Ling Hu could only be platonic. She's a nun afterall! That immediately signified to the readers that Yi Lin could never marry Ling Hu unless she renounces her religion. And although it is possible, Yi Lin would never do that. It was obvious from the inner conflict she suffered just to take a watermelon from a field to feed a sickly Ling Hu. Ling Hu was not insensible to her affections. He said many times in the novel that he would gladly lay down his life for her. But, as he said to Tian on one of their converstaions, Yi Lin is a nun, he would never dare to think of being her husband. He respected her devotion to her religion too much to even contemplate it. The book would not end well if Ling Hu was in love with Yi Lin. He'd have too much honour to speak of his love, she'd be torn apart by her love on one side and her faith on the other. One or both of them would end up dead from a broken heart from how - it wouldn't not have been cheerful.

202.65.245.7 (talk) 04:04, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

The pronunciation of "辟邪“
This current article lists the words "辟邪" as "Bi Xie" in PinYin. I would like to raise the point that it is actually read as "Pi Xie" if we follow traditional literary rules. Chinese traditional literature reads the first letter with a softer sound for liaison purposes when the two words are followed by other characters. I suggest a change to the liaison sound.

"Bi Xie" is by no means incorrect. It merely sounds slightly forced in a literary tone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.108.203.97 (talk) 22:51, 24 June 2010 (UTC)


 * You'll need to provide a source for verification and to support this claim. This is the first time I've heard that "辟邪" is read as "Pixie" instead of "Bixie", so it's rather strange. On a side note, the adaptations (films and TV series) also use "Bixie". What do other editors think? 暗無天日  contact me (聯絡) 13:04, 25 June 2010 (UTC


 * http://cidian.xpcha.com/38cga28wqtb.html


 * The traditional pronunciation of "辟邪" is in Pi4 Xie2. Unsigned is correct. The modern incorrect pronunciation stems from the use of 'Bi Xie' as in "Avoiding the evil" rather than "To repel evil". WhisperBlade (talk) 19:30, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Alright, thanks for the confirmation. I make the appropriate changes and leave a note. 暗無天日  contact me (聯絡) 13:39, 29 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Hold on, this page, which lists some commonly misread Chinese words, shows that the correct pronunciation of "辟邪" is "Bi4 Xie2" in Pinyin. It also doesn't make sense to use the traditional pronunciation, because the novel is written by Jin Yong in the 1960s, considered a modern period. It's also odd because the adaptations (films and TV series) also use "Bixie", and if there's really a mistake with the pronunciation, someone ought to have pointed it out long ago and the appropriate corrections should have been applied as well. I'd like to hear more from other editors before proceeding to make any changes, if necessary. 暗無天日  contact me (聯絡) 14:04, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Afterward
I see citation needed added for afterward. Not sure what to add here. It's literally in the very book, almost verbatim Suredeath (talk) 03:13, 23 May 2023 (UTC)