Talk:The Snow Queen

Deeper meaning
The Snow Queen has deeper meaning that could be provided to help in its presentation and interpretation. A devoted amirer of Hans Christian Andersen drboisclair 03:11, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Copyvio?
I've came around the following quote: ''No power that I could give could be as great as that which she already has. Don't you see how men and beasts are compelled to serve her, and how far she has come in the wide world since she started out in her naked feet? We mustn't tell her about this power. Strength lies in her heart, because she is such a sweet, innocent child. If she herself cannot reach the Snow Queen and rid little Kay of those pieces of glass, then there's no help that we can give her.''

Isn't it a copyright violation to include such big excerpts, and what is this quote's copyright status? Cmapm 13:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I've tried to reword that excerpt into a short sentence. Cmapm 10:33, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


 * This is considered "fair use".--Drboisclair 15:27, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


 * "The Snow Queen" is old enough to be in the public domain. See The Gutenberg Project, which declares that "The Snow Queen" is not copyright in the United States.   Trishm 09:35, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Changes in the article
I've tried to fix semantic errors and omissions mostly in the "Plotline" section. However, some spelling errors may have been introduced by me. I'm sorry for that in advance. Cmapm 11:10, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The quotation of exactly what the Finn woman says should be returned to let her speak for herself. --Drboisclair 15:27, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * OK with that excerpt, if you are sure, it may be qualified as fair use. But your addition about trolls does not reflect the essence, and this could not be explained just by translation diffs. Please, translate the following excerpt from the original Danish version (my version is its summary):
 * Alle de som gik i Trold-Skole, for han holdt Trold-Skole, de fortalte rundt om, at der var skeet et Mirakel; nu kunde man først see, meente de, hvorledes Verden og Menneskene rigtigt saae ud. De løb omkring med Speilet, og tilsidst var der ikke et Land eller et Menneske, uden at det havde været fordreiet deri. Nu vilde de ogsaa flyve op mod Himlen selv for at gjøre Nar af Englene og »vorHerre«. Jo høiere de fløi med Speilet, des stærkere grinede det, de kunde neppe holde fast paa det; høiere og høiere fløi de, nærmere Gud og Englene; da zittrede Speilet saa frygteligt i sit Griin, at det foer dem ud af Hænderne og styrtede ned mod Jorden
 * Hence, I change it back. Cmapm 16:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


 * You have Andersen's original Danish, and here is the text in more "up-to-date" Danish: Alle de som gik i troldskole, for han holdt troldskole, de fortalte rundt om, at der var sket et mirakel; nu kunne man først se, mente de, hvorledes verden og menneskene rigtigt så ud. De løb omkring med spejlet, og til sidst var der ikke et land eller et menneske, uden at det havde været fordrejet deri. Nu ville de også flyve op mod Himmelen selv for at gøre nar af englene og “Vorherre”. Jo højere de fløj med spejlet, des stærkere grinede det, de kunne næppe holde fast på det; højere og højere fløj de, nærmere Gud og englene; da sitrede spejlet så frygteligt i sit grin, at det fór dem ud af hænderne og styrtede ned mod jorden
 * My rough translation: "All they who went to 'Troll-school,' for he held 'Troll-school,' they told around, that there was a miracle; now could one first see, they believed, how [the] world and mankind rightly looked. They ran around with [the] mirror, and finally there was not a country or a person, that it had not been distorted in it. Now they wanted also to fly up towards heaven itself to make a fool of [the] angels and "the Lord." The higher they flew with [the] mirror, the stronger it grinned, they could hardly hold firmly onto it; higher and higher they flew, nearer God and [the] angels; when [the] mirror quivered so frightfully in its laugh, that it before them out of [their] hands and dropped down towards [the] ground."--Drboisclair 21:24, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Image:Edmund Dulac - Snow Queen.jpg
Image:Edmund Dulac - Snow Queen.jpg is going to be deleted from Commons. Please upload it under the fair use clause here if anybody wants to keep it. Bryan 20:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The Mirror of Reason
The Mirror of Reason [SNOW] is a popular guild in the MMORPG computer game, Guild Wars. It is about 2 years old and continually has close to max (100) members but has close to 500 ex-members, has belonged to 5 previous full alliances with over 60 members in each guild, and is currently the leader of an alliance of 9 other guilds with 60+ members in each guild.

In total well over 1,000 people have had some direct contact with The Mirror of Reason and the number of people that [SNOW] has helped in the game is countless. As a result, The Mirror of Reason were made official Guild of the Week on February 20, 2007 - raising the profile of the Snow Queen tale even further.

The Guild name was inspired by the Snow Queen tale and bases its lore, website, and cape (logo) design on the tale. All new members are encouraged to read the tale with a link to an online version included in their welcome page. The guild does a lot to promote the tale in the realm of computer gaming and fansites - thus recruiting many new fans to the story.

It is for this reason, I have included The Mirror of Reason in the culture section of the Snow Queen article. I personally consider online communities and computer games as part of culture in the modern world and through the Mirror of Reason, a large number of people have made contact for the first time with this magnificant tale, The Snow Queen. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.157.234.147 (talk) 10:28, 22 February 2007 (UTC).

The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe
Isn't the queen in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe a fairly obvious borrowing from this story? I hope that's not considered original research. It seems blantantly obvious to me. Should this similarity be mentioned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.166.226.40 (talk) 22:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You're right, I believe, but it will be considered original research unless someone finds a reliable source showing either that the academic community agrees with us or that C.S. Lewis acknowledges the Snow Queen as an inspiration. Only then can we really mention it.  I may look for such a source if I get around to it.  Aylad (talk) 16:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Disagree - the two characters have almost nothing in common. They are adult women who live in a place that's cold, but that's it.  The Snow Queen in Anderson's story was less of a character and more a personification of a force of nature.  She wasn't even necessarily evil - she only removed from society a boy who had been infected with a shard of glass that made his character cold and heartless.  Maybe he was dangerous in a supernatural way?  Or maybe his removal to the Queen's palace was a symbol of his departure into a cold and heartless life.  Regardless, once the shard melted, he was free to go.  We see her only briefly, and I'm not sure that she even ever speaks.  Lewis's Witch, on the other hand, was a much more 'human' and well-developed character - she has lots of dialog, well-developed and clearly evil motives, cronies, and the same kind of castle that any human monarch might live in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.206.129.74 (talk) 19:45, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Revisions, present and future
I clarified much of the summary using the version found at WikiSource.

The quotes might be public domain... does anyone understand copyright law regarding later translations of public-domain texts? If the translation is under copyright, we may not have fair use (most of the quoted material could be paraphrased with little loss).

Regarding the GuildWars guild... I didn't delete it, but if this article becomes the focus of an improvement effort, I'm certain it will be deleted as original research, un-encyclopedic, or what have you. Suggestions for demonstrating that it's worth keeping:
 * 1. Find reliable sources that demonstrate the limited availability of this story to today's children. (I doubt if it's widely-read these days, see if you can find an article about it somewhere.)


 * 2. Find reliable sources that point to your guild as increasing interest in and familiarity with the story. These sources may not exist yet, but if you can get the attention of some newspaper or other publication, you might get a brief write-up.  This would at least give you a shot at proving your reference to be encyclopedia-worthy.

It's nothing personal - I wish you the best of luck - I'm just being realistic and, hopefully, helpful. Aylad (talk) 17:21, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You have got to be kidding about deleting this article if it is not widely read by today's children! Is this a new Wikipedia policy? I think that the section that is clearly original research should be removed.--Drboisclair (talk) 13:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No, you misunderstood my comment. I apologize for not making it clearer. Under no circumstances should the article be deleted; it's clearly notable no matter how many or how few children are familiar with it.  I was referring to the GuildWars information specifically.  Yes, you're right, the OR should be removed as per policy. I'm a fairly non-confrontational person and chose to offer my thoughts on finding sources for the OR rather than deleting it outright. Other editors will, probably, be bolder than I.  Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 13:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I think that you and I are on the same page here. You have a helpful attitude, and contribute well to Wikipedia. I think that a reference to the availability of this story to modern children would be helpful not only to GuildWars but also to the article in general.--Drboisclair (talk) 19:33, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Since I was the one to put in the quotation from the newly translated version, I deleted it for the public domain text we have in Wikisource. The difference in text is minimal, and the public domain source serves just as well without treading on the thin ice of copyright infringement.--Drboisclair (talk) 19:56, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Holy moly, that article needed some work. Many, many thanks to Drboisclair, who did more work than I. I'm still not happy, though. The Media adaptations and The Snow Queen in literature and culture sections have been copyedited, but they're stuffed with cruft and, until a few minutes ago, filled with external links (read: ads). They're also disorganized. Can we reformat them into something like Cinderella's Adaptations section? Aylad ['ɑɪlæd] 00:39, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Most certainly.--Drboisclair (talk) 13:14, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

1992 film
Shouldn't an article be made of the 1992 film? Not to mention The Snow Queen's Revenge? 24.65.118.20 (talk) 00:20, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Paragraph about a guild
Do we really need this in an article about the Snow Queen? It seems more like self-advertising for everyone to see besides only the players of Guild Wars. I believe it shouldn't be in this article. Having it included would be the same as having a Myspace group being included just because they decided to call themselves "The Demented Mirror" and decide to talk about The Snow Queen. If it was something like a video game, a TV show, or a book with the name "The Mirror of Reason" and its story was at least based The Snow Queen, then I would see the reason for it to be put in. Even Persona makes more sense to be put in because of its optional Snow Queen side quest since it also gives a short summary of The Snow Queen as seen here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlgDphaZXQI&feature=related Iirc, Guild Wars has nothing relating to The Snow Queen anyway. Until then, I see this more as adding some people who just sit around a campfire and tell stories just because they decided to toss in the Snow Queen for fun and say that's an effect of The Snow Queen on popular culture. I've also taken out the paragraph about the guild for the same reason.--Le Chubrala (talk) 10:38, 4 February 2010 (UTC)--

I would disagree with you - this group for the first two years of its existence held game wide events in guildwars based on the theme of the Snow Queen - one on Midwinter's day as a tribute and one on midsummer's day as a chance to free Kay. They still continue to link ingame events with the Snow Queen tale when ever possible and are identified with a logo that is a snowflake surrounded by red roses as a direct link to the story. The section that you have deleted this from was concerned with the Snow Queen tale in popular culture, to deny that an online group that has been inspired into creation and holds snow queen related events is not part of popular culture is a very narrow minded view of what consists of modern popular culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.29.250.75 (talk) 22:40, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

So let me get this straight. Going by your reason, I can personally create my own guild about something like either Star Wars, Star Fox, Super Mario Bros., Mega Man/Rock Man, or The Wizard of Oz on some other online game. Go post in some random forums about how I'm going to create a game wide event on some random day saying either "I'll hold a galactic battle and that land can act like the Death Star!", "Let's create some large scale dog fights(not the canine version mind you)!", "Let's go kick turtle shells for a day!", "Let's go destroy some robots!", or "Let's celebrate the day we all went back home!" and create a guild called either SpaceWars, DogFight, ShellKickers, RobotBusters, or YellowRoad. Then get mentioned by the game hosts for having some people in those guilds. Then I'll be allowed to actually advertise my own guild on Wikipedia on those respective pages just because of that? Really now? I didn't know Wikipedia actually allowed such an asinine thing. If that's proof of it being popular then how come we can't allow people to post their characters on other online games then? Because that is essentially the same thing. Why I should go and list every online game that has someone name their character SnowQueen, Kay, or Gerda! Why, Split Pea Andersen restaurant must really represent The Snow Queen then too! After all, it's such a coincidence to have a restaurant that's has the name of the author of The Snow Queen. Oh, I almost forgot! Myspace groups would qualify too! Why, having an account called Snow Queen would qualify, especially if there's a whole group dedicated just to that story! Why, they can have some talks about the story, make up some phony chat events to simulate the story too! Oh hey, just for fun, let's go add in all the MSN chats too! Why, they talk about The Snow Queen too! Even better if someone made their username as Snow Queen or Gerda. See where I'm going? Just because one person creates a guild that just talks about The Snow Queen does NOT mean they are automatically qualified to be added in this article. Sheesh, no wonder college professors don't allow Wikipedia as a citation. Even worse that High School teachers don't allow it either. --Le Chubrala (talk) 04:34, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Andersen's other Snow Queen?
I've seen this story credited to Andersen in several places. (Maybe he reused the title, maybe it was a prototype of this one; I'm not sure.) Would it merit a mention? -Gargargarrick (talk) 03:05, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It seems to be more like the mythological character that appears in the story The Ice Maiden. But I am not sure the story you link to is actually by Hans Christian Andersen. I can find no equivalent in Danish (it is not included in that copy of his collected fairy tales which I am in possession of). --Saddhiyama (talk) 12:26, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Media adaptations
I hope I am doing this correctly. Please excuse me if I am not. This line may be edited out with out causing offense.

You may want to consider including the 2003 Russian live action version of The Snow Queen starring Kristina Orbakaitė (Кристина Орбакайте) under this heading. Info can be found here (Russian): http://www.ivi.ru/watch/51054. The film is posted to YouTube in its entirety here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAGSC_FABbk - sadly no subtitles.

Jack6128 (talk) 18:46, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Characters from Disney
The characters from the movie Frozen (2013 film) are only very, very loosely based on the characters in the Hans Christian Anderson story The Snow Queen. And the characters in the fourth season of Once Upon a Time (TV series) are based but not the same as the characters in the movie Frozen. With that tenuous a link back to the classic fairy tale, is it appropriate to devote over 500 words to a description of the plots in episodes of the TV show? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.226.208.58 (talk) 00:56, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
 * We just played the movie Frozen again, and after reviewing it a second time it's clear that, whatever the film's development history was, the actual film that was finally released has nothing in common with the Hans Christian Andersen story, so I deleted the long Once Upon A Time entries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.226.208.58 (talk) 03:24, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

The characters in Frozen are named "Hans, Kristoff, Ana, Sven" after Hans Christian Andersen. The song "Let it Go" is what convinced them to change the plot (and make Elsa look human instead of blue) because they didn't want to give that song to a villain, the composers talked about how the song change the plot in http://www.npr.org/2014/04/10/301420227/songwriters-behind-frozen-let-go-of-the-princess-mythology (start listening around the 3 minute mark). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.56.7.223 (talk) 21:27, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Kai/Kay's name?
I recall the little boy in the story being named Kay, not Kai? Am I mistaken? 2600:1700:E5E0:1610:8D35:F500:8CFD:2A0A (talk) 15:17, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Could that be Kai when spelled in the original Danish, and Kay in the English translation? Should be possible to check by looking at Wikipedia in Danish. Foiled circuitous wanderer (talk) 16:14, 30 October 2021 (UTC)


 * In Danish it is either Kai or Kaj, not Kay which must be an englush translation. 62.107.71.92 (talk) 09:01, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

I've almost answered my own question: checking on the entry in Norwegian, the boy's name is indeed spelled Kai. Norwegian and Danish are pretty similar. Anyone finding a Danish text to wrap it up? Foiled circuitous wanderer (talk) 16:24, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Is "Rudolph the Red-Nosed reindeer" a Snowqueen adaption?
I'm not common with either of both, but it got a snowqueen, an icebridge, rudolph getting trapped by the icequeen and being saved by that girl who's name I don't know anymore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.22.10.23 (talk) 18:12, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

THE SNOW QUEEN:
Hi there, I am The Snow Queen! You a disast but I don't Oh ok I can Ok thanks I Bye!!! 129.222.219.221 (talk) 13:50, 10 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Can you claraify that? Foiled circuitous wanderer (talk) 16:16, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

I take it that's a NO then. Foiled circuitous wanderer (talk) 13:18, 4 October 2023 (UTC)