Talk:The Social Democrats

Merger proposal
Social Democrats (Italy) should be merged into The Social Democrats, with the most recent uptates and possibly the former's name, as the two parties are actually the same. Checco (talk) 06:00, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Support; if they're the same party having not undergone a significant ideological or organisation change, it makes sense to merge the articles.--Autospark (talk) 14:27, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: This party and the Social Democrats (Italy) (whose name is Social Democracy, so the title is wrong) are definitely two different parties, I don't understand where Checco has drawn the conclusion that they are the same party. Indeed, Social Democracy – SD was explicitly founded on July 2, 2022. However, since both parties are absolutely marginal, I am not against merging the two pages by citing Mimmo Magisto's previous attempt to form a Social Democratic party in the page of the most recent party.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 09:12, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * There is no political party named "Social Democracy" (please let's not confuse the the name in the logo, consistent with the PSDI's logo, and the official name). The "new" party is named "Social Democrats" and it is just the continuation of "The Social Democrats". --Checco (talk) 03:54, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * @Checco Ok, but where are the sources on the official name "Social Democrats"? I haven't found it. And the sources on the new party which is the continuation of the one founded in 2011? Is it your supposition or is it written somewhere? --Scia Della Cometa (talk) 06:06, 18 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Support; Imo it will help to clean up the situation if we merge the two articles since there are 4 PSDI's now Braganza (talk) 15:42, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for what you have been doing, User:Braganza! However, would you move the draft below to another article, like Draft:Social Democrats (Italy)? Thanks, --Checco (talk) 06:01, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
 * User:Checco I would but cause it's such a minor party I fest it wont be moved to Main space Braganza (talk) 10:39, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Draft
The Social Democrats (Socialdemocratici), officially Social Democracy (Socialdemocrazia), is a social-democratic political party in Italy and considers itself to be the continuation of the historical Italian Democratic Socialist Party (PSDI), founded by Giuseppe Saragat and other reformist socialists on 11 January 1947.

==Background== The Social Democrats (i Socialdemocratici, iSD), whose complete name is The Social Democrats – Federalists for the Euromediterranean (i Socialdemocratici – Federalisti per l'Euromediterraneo) was founded in November 2011 by a split from the Italian Democratic Socialist Party (PSDI). Magistro had been the secretary of the PSDI from 2007 to July 2011, when a tribunal in Rome declared Renato D'Andria, who had been elected secretary in 2006 only to see his election invalidated by the party, legitimate secretary of the party. Magistro proposed a reconciliation between the two factions, but D'Andria did not accept the conditions posed by him. In mid November 2011, 28 members out of 31 of the outgoing National Council, including Magistro, thus left the PSDI in order to form iSD.

On 11 January 2012, on the 65th anniversary of the split of Palazzo Barberini, the PSDI and iSD organized a common event in remembrance of Giuseppe Saragat, a former President of the Italian Republic (1964–1971) and long-standing leader of the PSDI from 1947 until his death in 1988. A recomposition of the two groups may still be possible, but it has been made difficult also by the fact that D'Andria is keen on an alliance with the centre-right (three MPs of The People of Freedom – Massimo Baldini, Giancarlo Lehner and Paolo Russo – are quite close to the new PSDI),  while Magistro has aligned his iSD with the centre-left.

==History== On 2 July 2022, Sicilian Socialist Party and other former activists from Italian Democratic Socialist Party, iSD, the Italian Socialist Party and the libertarian factions of the Italian Socialist Party of Proletarian Unity founded a new party called Social Democracy 75 years after the Scissione di Palazzo Barberini, from the name of a palace in Rome where the foundation of PSDI took plact. iSD's former leader Mimmo Magistro became honorary chairman of SD.

The party, which initailly wanted to contest the 2022 Italian general election in a centre-left coalition enlarged to include the centrist Italian political forces, favors the autonomy of the regional sections and aims to promote a new "Socialist Constituent". In the run-up of the 2022 general election the party, which refused to join or was refused from the PD-led centre-left coalition, joined forces with Italia Viva and Carlo Calenda's Action, aiming to represent the left-wing of the "Third Pole".

==Ideology== The party adheres to the ideas of democratic socialism and of social democracy, pointing out its commitment for maintaining Italy in the geopolitical cadre of advanced liberal democracies. It also espouses strong internationalism and Europeanism.

==Leadership==
 * President: Mimmo Magistro (2011–2022), Umberto Costi (2022–present)

==References==

==External links==
 * Official website of The Social Democrats
 * Current official website

Category:2011 establishments in Italy Category:Social democratic parties in Italy Category:Political parties established in 2011 Category:Pro-European political parties in Italy --- Would this be acceptable? Braganza (talk) 16:36, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * as I have already said, I am in favor of merging the two pages for affinity and rationalization. However, there is no evidence that the two parties are linked, so we cannot write, without sources, that this party is a rebranding of the iSD founded in 2011 (a party practically only present in Apulia). Instead, we could create a "background" section in which to explain that Mimmo Magistro, a founder of SD, had already founded iSD in 2011. I take this opportunity to affirm again that the title of this page is also incorrect: the party was announced as "Social Democrats", but was founded as "Social Democracy" (the same name declared to the Ministry of the Interior).--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 18:01, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * how about renaming the section from just "History" to "The Social Democrats and History" and changing the section to this:
 * "On 2 July 2022, iSD, Sicilian Socialist Party and other former activists from Italian Democratic Socialist Party, the Italian Socialist Party and the libertarian factions of the Italian Socialist Party of Proletarian Unity founded a new party called Social Democracy 75 years after the Scissione di Palazzo Barberini, from the name of a palace in Rome where the foundation of PSDI took plact. iSD's former leader Mimmo Magistro became honorary chairman of SD. "
 * So it is pointed out that both parties are technically two different entities but have strong ties. Braganza (talk) 19:46, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * @Braganza The problem is that there is no evidence that iSD has joined SD, no sources have you ever mentioned them together. A claim like "iSD (...) founded a new party called Social Democracy" is de facto an original research, without at least one source of support. If we want to merge the two pages, in my view, the "History" section should be organized in two subsections: "Background" (concerning iSD) and "Foundation" (concerning the foundation of SD). Let's try to avoid unverifiable claims, after all iSD seems inactive for at least two years.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 22:18, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * imo there shouldnt be just a "foundation" section but i agree with a split of the sections Braganza (talk) 18:03, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
 * If you do not use the full name, the notification does not reach me XD However mine was just an example, actually "Foundation" does not even like me: we could have Background and History. In my view, the fundamental aspects are two: do not indicate iSD as the predecessor or founding subject of this party (it would be an original research) and changing the name of the page at the end of the procedure (Social Democracy Party?).--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 05:56, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
 * i would prefer to name the article either Social Democrats (Italy), Social Democrats (Italy, 2022) or Social Democracy (Italy, 2022), "Social Democracy Party" would be our own invention Braganza (talk) 06:05, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
 * "Social Democracy (Italy, 2022)" is fine, however this party is sometimes referred to in some sources as the "Partito della Socialdemocrazia" (maybe only informally, the statute is not available).--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 06:11, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
 * may i merge it? Braganza (talk) 06:24, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
 * For me yes, I think the important thing is to avoid original research (see above) and use a more appropriate name as the title of the page.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 06:40, 24 September 2022 (UTC)