Talk:The Sopranos/Archive 2

David Chase
You could look at it that David Chase(et al) was wacked by Tony Soprano because David Chase tried to end Tony's existence. The only problem with that theory is that it is not likely that Tony would do that (or have someone do that) in front of his family.

I think it should be added to the overview that the season finale, with the screen simply going blank with no real ending was a major disappointment to fans. In addition, the fact that the character Tony did not die or get arrested also left many open story lines with no resolution. While the character Phil Leotardo was killed, and all violence between the New Jersey crew and Phil's family --Opark 77 12:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)ended with no further killings, the future for Tony, his wife and his children were also by no means clear and decided. The finale definitely fell flat in the same way that the Sienfeld finale fell flat.
 * As a fan of the show, I felt the ending was solid, while others claim it was a copout. Being part of the buildup, the tension, toward the end made the entire blackout hit the gut, making myself, and all those who were watching, ask ourselves "What the hell?".  But then again, it kinda took the perspective of being whacked from behind, as what bobby and tony foreshadowed/reflected.  With the audience getting whacked, just like all those others who got whacked, we will never get to see closure.

I think it should be added to the overview that The Sopranos was in fact created by David Chase. Funkyvoltron 15:13, 15 February 2007 (UTC) Be bold.--Opark 77 16:59, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Done, I added it. Aaron Bowen 07:09, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Aaron, you cannot say this early that the season finale "was a major disappointment to fans." the episode ended only 1 hour ago! this is only your point of view. of course, I assume that some fans are disappointed and are very angry about this ending. BUT, some fans would consider this a brilliant ending that is fitting for the end of The Sopranos.

Brodog2525 11:06pm EST

Tony _is_ dead. You never see the one that gets you.

I personally thing that the finale was a disappointment, and from what I have read and talked to with others, the majority of fans do to. But certainly there are some out there who liked it as well. Yet I don't think the creators of Lost would be making promises to fans that they won't do the same thing 3 years from now in their finale if most people applauded the Sopranos ending. So hopefully I wrote a piece on this issue in the Wikipedia article that is fair and will stick. I do think it should be mentioned in the article and not just the discussion, but in a way that is encyclopediac.

hairymon 9:14am EDT


 * With all due respect, who cares what you personally think of the finale? And are you really sure you';re in touch with what the "majority" of fans thought? This is precisely why we stay away from speculation and OR here - plenty has been written about the finale - we stick, in the articles, with verifiable information. Tvoz | talk 03:28, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

OR Sections removed
I removed the following section which reeks of OR until we can get sources for it. Aaron Bowen 10:11, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Couldn't find any references for another section (Sun) so I removed it as well.
 * As well as the three o clock section, the only source doesn't even mention the Sopranos. Aaron Bowen 01:48, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately I can't find sources for the animales section either :( Aaron Bowen 17:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I added another section that's been tagged for awhile :( Aaron Bowen 09:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed the list of brands depicted in the show. This is not really main article stuff and is uncited.--Opark 77 17:17, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Eggs
In The Sopranos, eggs foreshadow the occurrence of something unfortunate, generally a loss of life, loss of sanity, or both.

Some examples include: In "Commendatori" Pussy's wife drops a carton of eggs when Pussy comes down stairs and he later kills an acquaintance who spotted him with his FBI handler. In "Long Term Parking", Adriana offers to make Christopher eggs after admitting she has been working with the FBI and she is killed shortly afterwards. In "Watching Too Much Television" Irina offers to make egg salad before Tony beats Zellman with a belt. In "Whoever Did This" Ralph offers to make Tony eggs for breakfast just before Tony murders him. In "Rat Pack" Carmine Lupertazzi suffers a stroke when eating egg salad, Uncle Junior later asks Bobby to make Tony an egg and then calls Tony Blundetto "Tony Egg" by mistake, right before the phone rings and it is announced that Carmine has died. In "The Test Dream" Valentina has her kimono catch on fire from the stove while preparing egg substitutes for Tony and Christopher is shot after his mother offers to make him eggs for breakfast the next morning. Tony Soprano steps in broken eggs just before resolving to murder his cousin, Tony Blundetto, in "All Due Respect". In "Another Toothpick", Bryan Spatafore sends his fellow construction worker into a restaurant where he says that Freddy wants "peppers and eggs", right after this, Mustang Sally beats him into a coma. In the final episode of season five, "All Due Respect", Tony steps in eggs while throwing away a painting of himself as a general with Pie-O-My, which causes him to stop and look at the painting; in the following scene, he murders Tony Blundetto.

Other tenuous examples exist. Richie Aprile offers to make Tony eggs when Tony finds him sleeping in Janice's house. He is shot and killed by Janice at the season's conclusion. AJ offers Carmela a poorly made poached egg in the episode "College"; later Tony kills Fabian Petrullio. Also, before Mikey Palmice is killed in "I Dream of Jeannie Cusamano", Carmela is seen making scrambled eggs. In "The Weight", while Junior and Tony are discussing ordering a hit on Johnny Sack, they watch an episode of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire where the contestant has used up all his lifelines and gets an answer wrong - the answer, "eggs". In "For All Debts Public and Private", Tony and Bobby Baccalieri stop by a diner after Tony gives Chris the address of the man that murdered his father. Tony orders scrambled eggs and tomato slices. Later in the episode, Baccalieri's wife Karen makes Junior eggs after he finds out the nurse in his doctor's office was working for the FBI. Series creator David Chase claimed that all egg-related symbolism was unintentional and purely coincidental in a 2006 interview with the Mark Lawson of the BBC. The frequent occurrence of eggs in The Sopranos is strikingly similar to The Godfather trilogy, in which oranges seem to foreshadow death and violence.
 * could this be why one of the soundtracks (the second to be released) is called "Pepper & EGGS?!?" I never understood the title, but i guess it makes sense from this perspective. --162.80.36.13 14:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

The Sun
In The Sopranos, the sun holds a significance in suicide. Whenever the camera points to the sun, a character in the story either attempts to commit suicide or successfully commits suicide.

An example of this occurrence can be seen in the episode "Nobody Knows Anything", before Makazian commits suicide, the camera pans off to the sun. Another example of this is in the second season in the episode "The Knight in White Satin Armor". Before Irina attempts to kill herself because Tony tries to break off his relationship with her, the camera is again pointed at the sun.


 * I never noticed this. But I don't remember alot suicides in the show either, most people were wacked. Xbox999 (talk) 21:31, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Three o'clock
The time "three o'clock" seems to have some significance. The time was first mentioned in the Season One episode "Meadowlands" when Tony dreams that he sees his mob associates visiting Dr. Melfi's office and she says, "Heshie? He has a three o'clock." In the Season Two episode, "From Where to Eternity," Christopher comes out of a coma thinking he was in hell and gives a message to Tony and Paulie from Brendan Filone and Mikey Palmice: three o'clock. Also in Season Two in the episode "Full Leather Jacket", Tony mentions to Melfi that his appointment is on a Tuesday at 3pm.

In Season Six, Vito calls Silvio at 3:00 AM from a cheap motel room after he realizes that his sexual preference for men has been discovered by New York mob members, in hopes of determining whether the news had yet spread to the Soprano family. Later in the Season Six episode, "The Ride," Paulie wakes up at 3:00 to call his doctor to find out whether or not he has prostate cancer. At the beginning of Season Six when Tony goes into cardiac arrest it can be deduced that the event of his near death occurs at or near 3:00 PM. Prior to the event, Paulie enters the room and the clock shows that it is 2:25. After Tony is resuscitated we get a brief glimpse of the clock and the time is 3:15.

It might also be notable that the time three o'clock in fact holds great significance in Catholicism. It is generally held among many Catholics today, in part due to the various visions and insight of Roman Catholic Augustinian nun Anne Catherine Emmerich, that three o'clock in the afternoon was the time of day that Jesus died.

Let's also not forget the threes that are in the last scene of the finale. The three of the family members sitting at the table. The Italian guy sitting at the front had coffee with three creams. There were also three cub scouts sitting at the other table.

Animals
Animals are often used as symbolism in the show. Ducks are used in the first season to represent Tony's family. Squirrels are used in the fourth season to represent the changing times. A black bear is used in Season Five to represent Tony himself. In the season one finale a rottweiler is seen barking at Mikey "Grab Bag" Palmice as he is jogging and before he is gunned down on Tony's orders. In Season Three, after Dr. Melfi is raped leaving work, she has a dream in which a rottweiler appears to save her from her attacker. She later realizes the significance of the rottweiler as a descendant of Roman guard dogs, loyal but fierce, relating it to the nationality and nature of Tony, whom she trusts.

Tony has shown a certain fondness for animals that, as Dr. Melfi points out, he does not show towards people, apparently as a form of displaced affection. Tony's depression originally began when the family of ducks left his pool. The race horse Pie-O-My in Season Four brought out Tony's soft side, and the animal's death in a stable fire demanded as bloody a payback as if she had been a member of his family. Tony showed more anger at Christopher when finding out that he had accidentally killed Adriana's dog, Cosette, than when he discovered that Chris was still using drugs. Tony was deeply upset when he found out that his father had given away his childhood dog, Tippy, to his mistress, Fran Felstein.

Television and movie references
Several characters, particularly Tony, are often shown watching movies or TV shows on television. Tony is often seen watching documentaries on The History Channel or noir classics such as James Cagney's The Public Enemy or White Heat. Tony has also been seen watching The Quiet Man starring John Wayne and Rio Bravo starring Dean Martin and John Wayne. The use of certain scenes in these documentaries and movies are used to foreshadow events that are going to happen, or to symbolize the situation that Tony and/or other characters are in. An example of this is Uncle Junior watching a Paths of Glory scene in "Members Only" that had Adolphe Menjou's character (General Broulard) telling Kirk Douglas's character (Colonel Dax) "You've spoiled the keenness of your mind by wallowing in sentimentality... You are an idealist, and I pity you as I would the village idiot." This was used to symbolize the deterioration of Uncle Junior's memory and his relationship with Tony.

Movies are also a source of inspiration for the show. Christopher's obsession with becoming a screenwriter has been a long-running storyline on the show. In the first and second seasons, he wrote a script called "You Bark, I Bite" but struggled to complete it. In season six, he hired former AA sponsor, JT Dolan, to write a script titled "Pork Store Killer" (later renamed "Cleaver"). On occasion, he uses movie references to describe the situation he is in. In addition, Ralph Cifaretto had a fascination with gladiator movies. Ridley Scott's Gladiator (2000), in particular, seems to stimulate Ralph's bravado and he can be heard quoting several lines from the film during the third season. When he quotes "Pride and Honor", Tony hands Ralph his empty glass and says, "Scotch and Soda".

Media theorist Marshall McLuhan serves as an inside joke in "House Arrest", aired in the second season. Junior gets a visit in the hospital from a Michael McLuhan, who is a U.S. Marshal. The nurse asks if his name is really 'Marshal' McLuhan. Junior wonders what the "joke" is.

Depiction of brands
HBO officially denies that it accepts product placement — paid or otherwise — and asserts that brands depicted are not a commercial decision, but a creative one made by the show's producers.

In terms of brands seen in the program, Soprano family members, for instance, typically drink Coca-Cola, Samuel Adams beer, Tropicana (PepsiCo), Rolling Rock, and Snapple (Cadbury Schweppes). Motorola and Nokia cellphones and Apple computers are sometimes seen. Some devices utilized include scene settings (scenes have taken place in OfficeMax, Home Depot, and Costco stores) and products directly incorporated into the storyline, such as luxury cars (the Chevrolet Suburban, Hummer H2, Cadillac Escalade (General Motors), Lexus LS, Lexus IS (Toyota), Nissan Xterra, and Porsche Cayenne Turbo luxury SUVs, as well as a Maserati coupé, Ford Mustang, BMW M3 sports cars, Lincoln Navigator and Continental, and Mercedes-Benz E-Class station wagon have all been plot devices) and the New Jersey newspaper, The Star Ledger, which is regularly seen reporting on the show's storyline. Many of the characters smoke, Christopher is often seen smoking Marlboro cigarettes, and Phil Leotardo and Silvio Dante are seen smoking Marlboro Lights.

There is even an entire story line with Tony Soprano having an affair with a Mercedes-Benz salewomen - Gloria Trillo. The affair ended up being a disaster. The dealership depicted in the show is an actual Mercedes dealership in Fairfield New Jersey.

Several of HBO's other shows have been used in The Sopranos episodes such as Curb Your Enthusiasm (in one reference, Junior, somewhat addled, sees a bald bespectacled Larry David and asks why he — Junior — is on tv) and Band of Brothers. On one occasion, reference was made by Tony to the Showtime series The L Word, though not by name. Other references are made to Goodfellas, which features Lorraine Bracco (Jennifer Melfi) and Michael Imperioli (Christopher Moltisanti) as well as The Matrix and The Fugitive, which both feature Joe Pantoliano (Ralph Cifaretto). AJ has been known to watch Aqua Teen Hunger Force, as well as play Mario Kart 64 in earlier episodes.

Clean up
Agree with whomever put the "Clean up needed" tag on the page, this article is pretty bad at the moment. Way too much OR and pointless trivia (the section about the opening, which doesn't name nearly enough of the Jersey landmarks passed does, however, mention it was parodied on "The Simpsons"! WTF??). This should be the goal for the next week, all unsourced crap and random trivia either removed or moved to this talk page until it can be properly used in the article. There is going to be an influx of new hits as the new season starts tommorrow and wikipedia should be presented in the best light. RoyBatty42 19:56, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I put it on there (I think) but believe me it's a lot better than it was I removed the OR sections above and formatted all the refs consistently. We're getting there. Aaron Bowen 13:20, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Malapropisms
This section is unsourced and it should be easy to source just put the episode name in a inline citation after the malapropism. Follow the ref style used in the article please. Aaron Bowen 13:22, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Make sure you have watched the episode recently or have it on hand and are sure of the episode number. Aaron Bowen 13:42, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

In the finale Tony is "miffled" by the aging, hypochondriacal Paulie's decision to not take over "the crew" run by Aprile associated cappos, each of whom lost their heads.

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/004603.html

Airtime
Can someone PLEASE stop changing the original run record. Recently changed from April 9th 2007 to present.

Change it when the Series finale airs in a few months. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ToughLuckMeadow (talk • contribs) 02:43, 14 April 2007 (UTC).

prison break reference
"In the second season episode of Prison Break, entitled "First Down", when one of the escapees, John Abruzzi, is informed of the location of a witness that he plans to kill, he is told "Fish-Head Tony from Jersey is looking to help out," a plain reference to The Sopranos"

-this should be deleted. from the subtitles, the transcripts, and even from the wikipedia on the prison break episode (First Down) it is established that he says Tommy, not Tony. also you can hear it just by listening. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.132.240.130 (talk) 07:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC).
 * I concur. Aaron Bowen 11:19, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

The location of the sopranos house was incorrectly listed as 124 aspen drive -- I changed it to 14 aspen drive. (To verify this, see, e.g., http://www.zillow.com/HomeDetails.htm?zprop=38716281. Definitely the right house.

Sopranos house adress
The location of the sopranos house was incorrectly listed as 124 aspen drive -- I changed it to 14 aspen drive. (To verify this, see, e.g., http://www.zillow.com/HomeDetails.htm?zprop=38716281.) Definitely the right house. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.192.149.129 (talk) 05:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

Fiction noticeboard
A new noticeboard, Fiction noticeboard, has been created. - Peregrine Fisher 18:21, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the notice! Aaron Bowen 22:04, 1 May 2007 (UTC)


 * This noticeboard has been deleted per Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Fiction noticeboard. Please disregard the above posts. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 11:26, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Lupertazzi based on Colombos
"Due to its large size, the Lupertazzi crime family likely represents either the Gambino or Genovese crime families."

Firstly, how are we sure of the size of the Lupertazzi crime family? We don't here anything much of the other New York families which makes the Lupertazzi's appear dominant (reflective of the Gambinos or Genoveses) but this could simply be 'inconsistent storytelling' as one person above stated, but this is just an assumption made from the other families not being in the show. Maybe we could assume that the Lupertazzis have a stronger relationship with the DiMeo family then the other New York families do but there is nothing to say the Lupertazzis are the biggest family in New York. Or is there? I know the article doesn't say this directly.

Anyway, here is the similarities a friend of mine came up with to suggest that the Lupertazzis have more in common with the Colombo crime family lead by Carmine Persico.

1. Carmine Lupertazzi and Carmine Persico
 * 2. Similar appearance - old, bald, "fish lips"

3. Season 5: it was mentioned that Lupertazzi had been boss for over 30 years; uncommonly long time for someone to remain boss however Carmine Persico we all know has been boss of the Colombos for over 30 years.
 * 4. Lupertazzi and Persico both have sons (respectively Little Carmine for Lupertazzi and Carmine Jr. and Little Allie Boy for Persico) who spent time in Florida (South Florida specifically) with business down there.

and no.5 When Lupertazzi dies a war breaks out between those loyal to John Sacramoni, Lupertazzi's underboss and logical successor and those loyal to his son Little Carmine for control of the family. When Persico was sent to prison a war broke out between those loyal to Victor Orena, Persico's acting boss and those loyal to his son and him for control of the family.

I am sure the Lupertazzis are an amalgamation of various New York families and in the show, although it does depict NY of having five families, represents the New York mafia as a whole. In real life all five families have a presence in NJ. These similarities however are quite profound ones and maybe it could be included in the article with of course the correct sourcing of facts. Alexbonaro 11:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The info in the article and your work is OR without a reliable source. Aaron Bowen 11:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Tony mentions, that John Sac's family has 200 soldiers and because they are so big, he has no other options but to keep them happy. --JTrdi 13:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's original research and unverifiable but for arguments sake the family has more noticeable similarities with the Colombos then with the other NY families. I suppose nothing of this sort should be on the page though. Alexbonaro 08:50, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Deniro rumor

 * I removed this rumor because it was unsourced. It's also kind of trivial. Aaron Bowen 23:50, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Robert De Niro was originally set to appear in four episodes in Series 3 but passed it on due to other projects

Archiving
I'm going to archive a lot of this in a day or two if no one objects. Aaron Bowen 03:02, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Done, I didn;t bother to wait a lot of this is really old. Aaron Bowen 07:13, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Fox
It's stated in here that the show was originally made for FOX. Does anybody have some refs on that? Aaron Bowen 19:34, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I found one ref however all it says that Chase pitched the idea to FOX: and they rejected it. It doesn't say anything about a pilot being produced for the network or anything. Aaron Bowen 19:45, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

A real surname?
Is "Soprano" a real surname? It doesn't sound like one to me. Some of the surnames of other characters also sound made-up. Is my impression on this correct?--Pharos 01:17, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * No its a real Surname. A quick search on ancestry.com shows a light distribution across the US of the surname "Soprano", with most being located in the NE.  Doesnt seem to be very common though. Dman727 01:36, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

International broadcasting
It airs on HBO in Brazil.


 * I'm not trying to be obnoxious but I've always wondered this: why is broadcasting information important? Is it really encyclopedic? Are people really coming to Wikipedia to find out on which channel a show airs in Albania or Bhutan or East Timor? It just seems like a waste of space and unencyclopedic. 75.75.110.235 01:17, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think any type of information is a waste of space!


 * I would not go _quite_ that far, but I agree that international broadcasting information is worth including for various reasons, mostly involving cultural trends and network strategies. Besides, one ocasionally runs into trivia such as the controversy about the 1980s "V" series and its South African broadcasting. Luis Dantas 13:19, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Have you guys ever thought about the fact that people who are not from the U.S.,Canada or the UK get on here too, for exampel to doublecheck information? Also ppl move, even to places like Albania, Bhutan or East Timor. Another point is, some years from now someone might here about this amazing tv show that was so successful in many countries. He/She might want to know where it ran and what station it was on. For me it was funny to find out, that ppl in the U.S. can only watch it on HBO pay tv, while i watched it for free. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.2.89.73 (talk) 21:09, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

"Edited"
The present references to episodes being "edited" for free-to-air broadcasting I think should be changed to "censored for profanity", since that its really what we are talking about, aren't we(?) Or is there some other kind of "editing" that goes on(?) Grant | Talk 04:49, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Nudity inside the strip club is pixelated. I'm not sure how they handle sex and violence, because I haven't watched that much of it, but I believe they cut around some of the more graphic moments. Profanity is handled by overdubbing rather than bleeping (e.g., "fuck you" becomes "forget you"). I would be surprised if they don't do some editing for time, since original episodes are sometimes more than an hour long and a standard broadcast drama is usually more like 45 minutes. Clconway 14:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)


 * For a not-terribly-authoritative site, you might look here. This reminds me: one big difference between HBO and A&E is that HBO airs the show letterboxed and A&E airs it full frame. IIRC, the first few seasons aired full frame on HBO; I believe in Season 2, you could choose between full frame on HBO and letterboxed on HBO2. Clconway 15:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Just checked and I see that the episodes are running about 70 minutes with commercials on A&E. I guess they're not editing for time. Clconway 02:16, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Sopranos Lawsuit
It should be worth noting in either this or the David Chase article that Chase was sued over the pilot episode and characters for the series. He met with a prosecuter in New Jersey, Robert Baer, and was introduced to detectives that told him stories of a particular New Jersey crime family. These mobsters (claimed in the law suit) would be the basis for many of the characters and stories in the series. Here is one story about it, I don't know if there is anything more recent: http://news.lp.findlaw.com/andrews/bt/sel/20050131/20050131baer.html

David Chase was supposed to compensate Baer is some way but never followed through. Chase claims he never made the deal.

The case is Baer v. Chase et al. --Twintone 19:07, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Road To Respect: Video Game
I just got the game and am really liking it and thinking of making a page for it, do you feel it's worth it? as being new to this im not sure how other pages are recivied do people like all the info in the same page? or are link off pages liked? Thanks Will Scot 55 06:43, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

• from the Sopranos main page: "The game was not well-received" • from the Sopranos game main page: "The game was very well-received"

Which one is the right one? :/

Authrom 16:30, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Semiprotect
S-protect this page NOW!!! I cannot revert vandalism forever. Although I agree that the ending sucked. The great kawa 02:08, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Semi'd for a week. --Core desat 02:12, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks much - was going to second that. (And yes, the ending was SUCH garbage.) Exigence 02:13, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I dont think it was garbage....I think Tony died, and the black out was his end. This is just my opinion of course.NYKenny 02:22, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Lol, we got rickrolled Liu Bei 02:45, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree the ending was bad, it was a non-ending. Ten years of waiting and they screw us like the mob.

While it certainly wasn't the ending I was expecting, I actually think it's good. I think of it this way, David Chase gave us a glimpse of Tony and his families, and now, the glimpse is over. Who knows if any of the guys in the restaurant were going to kill him or his family? But so long as Tony lives, he will always have the threat of being gunned down or indicted or divorcing from his wife. I'm glad I got to see Tony's journey even though I didn't get to see his destination.Bronx bomber07 03:24, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

"I'm glad I got to see Tony's journey even though I didn't get to see his destination." pun intended? :P

i seriously doubt the black screen is a metaphore for tony getting whacked, if they wanted that they would have at least shown a gun, can someone please remove that part from the article, also shouldnt it mention something about how to is about to be arrested?


 * Alright let's move the non-article discussion elsewhere. The great kawa 11:39, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Final Episode Explanation
Could someone please fix/delete the "Explanation of the Final Episode" section. It is very POV and poorly written.

Also, the page should not say "Meadow enters the diner" because we are never actually sure that she did enter. It is assumed, of course, but it is not a fact, so should not be stated as one. She may have never gotten to the door, or she may not have been running toward the diner at all. Maybe she was running towards the drug store?

Or maybe the screen went black because Tony's consciousness ended; abruptly. Check the credits at the end of the movie for who else was in the diner.

This needs to be fixed: "The very end of the show is controversial as the screen suddenly goes blank as Tony is about to take a bite of an onion ring." That's not true, he had already eaten the onion ring. It goes black after he looks up to see who enters the diner.
 * Those are good observations. I encourage you to register with wikipedia for a username. Nodekeeper 04:48, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Final scenes for each broadcast
The article mentions that the East and West Coast feeds differed in what they showed as the final scene. Can someone double check that? I watched both feeds, and don't remember seeing a difference, but was pretty caught up in the story so I may or may not be recalling it clearly. -seinman 07:30, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I recored both on DVR, they both ended with Tony looking up 65.27.245.208

I have the HBO package which has both a westcoast (my time zone) and an eastcoast channel, essentially you can watch whatever programming that would normally air 3 hours later in the westcoast, 3 hours before on the eastcoast channel. I watched the Sopranos finale on both, and there was two different endings. The show that aired 9pm est, 6pm on the eastcoast HBO channel, the ending is the one everyone's been referring to.. ending with Tony and his family sitting in the restaurant.. screen goes to black. But when they showed the finale on the westcoast channel (airing at 9pm pst) the show ends with Tony playing the Journey song on the mini jukebox, his wife coming in to the restaurant, Tony putting a menu in front of her and then himself.. and then a black screen followed immediately by credits (no long pause like the eastcoast version). Billy Button 10:25pm PST

To : Billy Button,

That's rubbish, you've completely made that up. Both endings were EXACTLY the same. Moz 12:32, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Things left Unknown
This section has been added to the page The Sopranos Things left unknown or a mystery can be put under that section.


 * Removed this section - it is not encyclopedic and is too susceptible to OR. Tvoz | talk 16:28, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Nice work Tvoz, I agree. Aaron Bowen 18:55, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Can someone explain the significance of the cat staring at the picture on the wall? Everyone in the bar laughed when the cat walked into the final scene with Paulie outside the store. Was there a continuing joke or theme about cats running through the series?

How many seasons?
Didn't the Sopranos run EIGHT seasons, instead of the six that the main article lists? Just curious if this is an error that needs fixed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.166.22.254 (talk • contribs)
 * The sixth season was split up into two separated airings. The number is correct, I'm not sure where you got eight from> Aaron Bowen 22:31, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Series finale section
Could someone please revise that section called "Series finale"? It's badly written and incorrectly states many things. ---mondocanerules 17:12 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that section, as it is now, is probably the worst piece of writing I have ever seen on Wikipedia. I actually feel genuinely worse off having read it. It's just utterly idiotic ideas (and the writing itself... blah), from the start with "The very end of the show is controversial..." to the end: "...it is likely such theories will die out eventually when all surrounding the finale does. The screen simply cutting out is that our 'Journey' with this family is over." 202.134.251.206 10:12, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Rather than whine an complain anonymously about that section, why do you not you improve it? If you do not have a username for wikipedia, then maybe this would be a good time to get one. Nodekeeper 02:35, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It's history now. The section needs citations however - many are available. Tvoz | talk 13:11, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I noticed that another editor said he was going to move that section discussing series finale speculation to another page in the edit history notes. I fail to see how he did this. I assume he meant Made in America (The Sopranos), but I fail to see any mention about what the ending could possible mean there, let alone a link from the main Sopranos article. Because of this I am reverting the edit back to the version with that section in it. Think of ways of improving it rather than hacking it out. The reason for this is because it has been of significant national discussion as to what the ending means, and it should not be ignored. I do think that it could be improved (and perhaps shortened), as it was cobbled together over time. But hacking it out entirely and removing all mention of the speculation and controversy this episode generated is just flat out wrong. Nodekeeper 02:35, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I moved it to the bottom of the page where new discussions are supposed to go. Another editor deleted it. It was all OR and pure speculation, so he was right to do so. Aaron Bowen 10:46, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Saw it on the news
Whichever admin. locked this page, you were on NBC nightly national news for doing so. Nice. --MorrisS 06:02, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know if you are praising him or being sarcastic. Regardless, the page was getting vandalised very heavily due to the series finale, and something had to be done. -- s u m n j i m  talk with me·changes 12:53, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Its semi-protected not locked. Aaron Bowen 15:41, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * it was praise, I guess...just found it amusing and thought you might want to know.--MorrisS 04:16, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see. Aaron Bowen 07:53, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Title screen or promotional poster
Should we use the title screen or a promotional poster for the article? I personally feel a promotional poster is more suitable as it illustrates characters on the show and still includes the logo but I suppose that's debatable. Funkyvoltron 15:20, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * IMHO, I don't really care. There was a commercial back a while to promote season 6 (I think), and they didn't even use the logo at all, it was just the faces of the cast.  (I also believe this information is in the main article).  The show is so well known/popular, they don't even need to use the logo, as just the character faces are enough to know what the preview is for.  If I had to lean one way or the other, I would say use someone with their faces on it.  -- s u m n j i m  talk with me·changes 16:03, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Reverted the image change until somebody can provide a rationale as to why this article should go against a standard. Matthew 10:56, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The poster depicting the main cast should stay, it's perfectly fine. Loveem  —Preceding comment was added at 12:09, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

List of characters
Currently there is a disagreement between myself and another editor about how 2 characters should be listed. I believe they should stay they are, with Edie Falco being listed above Lorraine Braco, as she is Tony's wife and more prominent of a character than Lorraine Braco, however the other editer feels it should be the other way around because her name appears before on the credits (I cannot confirm or deny if that is true right now), but anyways, I would like to have someone other editors input on this. Thanks. -- su mn ji m  talk with me·changes 13:31, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, well - Lorraine Bracco does come beofre Edie Falco in the opening credits - no doubt this is an AFTRA thing - but Falco is listed above Bracco on hbo.com which is not regulated by AFTRA rukes. So it could go either way.  I'd go with Falco over Bracco, because overall in the series I believe Falco had the more prominent role.  Tvoz | talk 03:34, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Final Episode of The Sopranos
Of all times to "freeze" this article, when the ending is actually a major news story! I disagree with Wikipedia on this one. -D. Gazinya
 * It is not "frozen" at all - it is merely protected against editing by anonymous and new editors because of a huge amount of vandalism that puts an unfair burden on other editors to keep it clear. Tvoz | talk 03:36, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Sopranos.front.ru
What is this? It appears whenever I try to click on list of characters.


 * Vandalism. This has been corrected. -- Borameer &trade; 18:24, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Final episode parodies
I added references to the final episode parodies that have sprung up on the internet under "References in Television and Other Media" to document these occurances. I felt this was the best place for it, but if someone wishes to make it a separate section, or expand on what I've done, then they can do so. 68.252.95.208 23:56, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Malapropisms -> Ineptitude?
Funkyvoltron has changed the section on Malapropisms to a bulleted list on the "Ineptitude of Mobsters." I don't think this is an improvement. Most of the examples included are... malapropisms. In any event, this section should be shortened or eliminated. It's bound to grow out of control as editors add their favorite example. Clconway 13:40, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

question
How many episodes in the sixth season ? --Miwanya 19:55, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * There is a link in the main article to List_of_The_Sopranos_episodes -- su mn ji m  talk with me·changes 20:05, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks :) --Miwanya 20:58, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Malapropisms Ineptitude of Mobsters
Addressing the concern that this list could get out of hand, I don't add my favorite but just propose it here, for I think it is exemplary and pretty f---ing funny, to use Soprano language. It is, I'm pretty certain, in the 3rd overall episode, when Tony speaks to Dr. Melfi about motels. She says, as far as I can remember, something about how nice the view (or something) is from some motel she once stayed at in the Cape d'Antibes. When Tony tells Carmela about that place, he speaks of "Captain Teeb's" motels; "the Captain that has this motel chain, or something". I motion for this one to be added.

Themes and characteristics
I think that this section should be spun off into its own article, much like what was done at Lost (TV series). Cliff smith 01:28, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That separate article for the themes and characteristics of lost has since been deleted. We have to mercilessly edit this stuff as original research now I think. The themes and characteristics section of the lost article is a good model.--Opark 77 17:13, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Soprano House Address
I don't know if it's the correct address or not, but I don't think it's respectful to the real family who lives there to have what could be their address shown on Wikipedia.


 * This is not a case where someones house is being made famous against their will. The family either sold the rights to have it portrayed, or they purchased it (and no doubt paid a huge premium because of its fame) with the full knowledge that its already television landmark.  As such I don't see a problem with it. Dman727 00:49, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Also, as of 2004, the Sopranos Tour from NYC included a stop at the house, so I think it's location as a commercial destination is already set in stone.


 * Jamesfett 06:49, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Is or Was a TV series?
Should the lede sentence read "The Sopranos is..." or "The Sopranos was...", having completed its original run? Seems like the kind of thing we should handle consistently in all TV articles, but I'm not seeing any well-defined rule. Any thoughts?75.139.32.246 07:36, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Check the WP:TV guidelines. We say is as they are in perpetuity TV shows once created whether they are currently airing or not.--Opark 77 15:51, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

It's "is", the people who keep changing it back to "was" need to read the tense guidelines. 220.239.101.230 09:37, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

raft of the medusa
its a very famous painting and i think the sopranos have referenced this painting on the cover of the dvd the complete fifth seasone, maybe someone could check it out and find a place for it in this article i think its an interesting reference 203.194.45.176 02:08, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I think you're probably correct. Have a look for a reference and then it can be worked into the article.--Opark 77 15:52, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Cop Land - The Sopranos
Does anybody know why so many actors who appeared in Cop Land where also in The Sopranos? I'm sure it'd be interesting trivia at least. I imagine it's something to do with the casting agents, but that would be a big fat guess.Musungu jim 20:06, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * They do not share casting directors. I imagine its because both are set and filmed in New Jersey and went out of their way to use authentic East Coast actors where possible.--Opark 77 15:54, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

McGuffins
As this page continues to refine itself to the facts of the series I would like to see the following added:

Use of McGuffins (eg The Russian) The number 3 (defined and explained in the series) The use of repetitive statements and their placement in the episodes Repetitive events (eg wind blowing, bells sounding, beacons of light)75.49.38.244 18:47, 1 September 2007 (UTC)Giada
 * Sounds great. Can you start looking for sources that discuss the importance of these elements?--Opark 77 19:55, 1 September 2007 (UTC)I'd be happy to search and contribute75.33.15.129 00:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)Giada

Featured Article
What's up, wiseguys and mafia brides? This article is in just terrible shape, what's up with that? The Sopranos is such a great work of art, it deserves a FA. So let's make one! I started working on one a while back, if you wanna help me, hit me up. I especially need help with grammar and such since english is not my first language. –FunkyVoltron talk 14:47, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Lets go for it. Verfiability is the big issue with the page as it stands but that has been improved in recent months. I'm happy to copyedit any sections you contribute.--Opark 77 16:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I've edited some of the POV stuff out of the lead. I've tagged some sections for sources and the whole article for cleanup. For the characters section the HBO profiles are an adequate source but we should seek out alternatives where available. For the plot summary we can cite episodes using the template - see WP:TV for guidance. I'm adding a to do list to the talk page to help co-ordinate our efforts. Add any suggestions there.--Opark 77 16:33, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I am happy to report that work on the article is now going great. I took a break from working on it since it was such a massive project but now it's starting to shape up. I'm still looking for help, though. So if you're interested, please drop me a line. I'm specifically looking for someone who owns sopranos book since I'm guessing it's quite a resource.–FunkyVoltron talk 02:45, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I own the official guide book and the 1st cookbook.--Opark 77 07:45, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, then help me! :)–FunkyVoltron talk 19:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Give me time.--Opark 77 20:25, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:SopranosVanityFair.jpg
Image:SopranosVanityFair.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:14, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Silvio listed as Tony's "best friend."
I changed the following passage:


 * Silvio is Tony's consigliere and best friend.

to


 * Silvio is Tony's consigliere and good friend.

During the course of the show, Tony mentions several times that Big Pussy was Tony's best friend. After Big Pussy's death, it may be that Silvio became as close to Tony as Big Pussy did, but it wasn't as explicitly called out.

Jamesfett 16:51, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Characters Section
This section should be removed and should simply link to the page that lists and describes Sopranos characters. It's a messy addition to the article and simply muddles things. Unless there's a major outcry on here, I'll try and remember to do that in a day or two. Schwin47 06:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I completely disagree. I don't know if you're aware of the summary style guideline but that is the intention of the section - to provide a brief overview of the shows characters. If you look at featured TV show articles like Lost (TV series) and The Wire (TV series) they have summary style prose sections detailing the main characters with a link to the character list using the main article template. That is exactly what we have here. Could you explain a bit more how the section "muddles things"? I think its a fairly straightforward introduction of the starring characters. For a reader unfamiliar with the show it is essential to give some introduction to the characters but to keep the detail out on the sub-pages so they're not overloaded.--Opark 77 12:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Give it another read. It offers minimal descriptions of characters, if offering any at all.  Several characters are simply listed.  Some are omitted.  Realistically, it's impossible to give a proper character description in paragraph format.  If it's to be done, each character should probably have his own paragraph, and a minimum of one sentence discussing the character.  We're dealing with a show that spanned 6.5 seasons with a total of 87 hours of air time.  To describe all the key parties in this fashion is simply infeasible.  Were the characters properly described in such a form, the description would be large enough to create an entirely separate article.  As a point of illustration, the entirety of Corrado's description: "Tony's Uncle Junior and both of his cousins are involved in his criminal organization and their family bond vies with their criminal ambitions."  That doesn't even begin to describe the character, and to do so properly would require a great deal more space.  It is far more efficient to simply link to the character list.  Schwin47  —Preceding comment was added at 10:58, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I wrote the majority of it but I have re-read it as requested. It is not perfect by any means but as I said for the reader unfamiliar with all 87 hours of The Sopranos it provides the briefest of introductions to the starring characters. All the other info is there for them to go and find on the appropriate sub-articles. It is important that the main article about the show include a short summary of the characters on the show for completeness sake. I agree that a summary does not do these wonderfully complex characters justice. However, it provides an introduction to the casual reader and guides them to the more in depth analysis at the character articles as well as pointing them to the character list. The characters section is one of the few bits of this article that remotely conforms to wikipedia's standards and you want to delete it! If you feel that clarification is needed for some characters then lets work on writing a one to two sentence succinct synopsis of their role. If you feel that characters are missing from the list then try adding them or suggest them here for discussion. I strongly disagree that the short synopsis presently in place does not "even begin to describe the character" - Uncle Juniors introduction establishes him as an Uncle to Tony, a member of the crime family and someone who has conflict with Tony because of his ambition. I think this begins to describe the character to a casual reader by providing three key pieces of information about him. I don't think it originally mentioned the cousins and was intended as an intro solely to Junior. I agree that mentioning the cousins is confusing so lets remove it. There's an in-line link to Junior's page so the interested reader can easily find out more about this specific character. This is vastly preferable to having an article about the show which states that there are characters but only providing a link to the list article. If the reader wants to find out about the show's characters they have to start again on a separate list article, and when they click through to that list it just has all of the characters names so they have to select them one by one to find out anything further. You seem to be making the argument that it is difficult to do this summary section well and we should give up on it all together. I believe the casual reader deserves a short introduction to the characters and that we should persevere in providing that to them. Why not look for a source that mentions the complexity of the characters; we can then begin the section with an explanation that the show has an array of three dimensional and fascinating characters to make it clear that there is more detail to be found out than the short summary we give on the main article.--Opark 77 21:16, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm currently working with Funkyvoltron on rebuilding the article from the ground up over at his sandbox User talk:Funkyvoltron/Sandbox. Perhaps we could collaborate on writing a better short summary for the characters there?--Opark 77 21:24, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, please do.–FunkyVoltron talk 02:46, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Death List
The Death list is proposed for deletion. Should we park the information here in case it gets whacked too? Colonel Warden 10:59, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * No. That's the kind of thing you definitely do not want cluttering up a series page. Ombudstheman 22:43, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * By 'here', I mean this talk page. Colonel Warden 23:10, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Whoever suggested it, it's a stupid idea to get rid of the death list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Loveem (talk • contribs) 21:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I can't find it! Did they delete it? MJN SEIFER 14:39, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's gone. Colonel Warden has given a link to the discussion (and result) above. Pawnkingthree 12:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Ridiculous —Preceding unsigned comment added by Loveem (talk • contribs) 21:38, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Similar material is at Soprano wiki if we want to recover it in some way. Colonel Warden 22:13, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Damn! I liked that page, I wished I'd been around during the debate... I think wiki has very biased views on what it deletes, do you know what I mean? I've seen other pages get deleted and a lot of the "reasons" seam to be mainly "Boring page" or "uninteresting page". MJN SEIFER 11:48, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Tony Sirico court transcripts.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/sirico/sirico.html has some of Tony Sirico's criminal history but I didn't find evidence of 28 arrests. Debbiesue52 02:48, 4 December 2007 (UTC)debbiesue52

FA
Well, since no one seems to be interested in helping me with the FA-inteded rewrite (I can't do it myself, it's just too much work and english is not even my first language) I decided to start working on single episodes instead. I started today with "Join the Club". My intention was always to do this when the main article was finished but whaddya gonna do? –FunkyVoltron talk 01:49, 19 December 2007 (UTC)