Talk:The Sweet/Archive 1

Fox on the Run
This bit: In 1975, Sweet's first self-written and produced single, Fox on the Run, was released worldwide and instantly became their biggest selling hit, going to number 1 on many of the world's charts.

Has now been changed, removing reference to Fox on the Run being the band's biggest ever hit. However it does roughly appear, based on the general info on the page, to be the biggest hit, or at least similar in magnitude to other big hits like Ballroom Blitz. I think the current wording deemphasised just how big a hit FOTR was. Also it was the biggest selling single in Australia for 1975. Precinct13 21:57, 9 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Sweet's "Glitz, Blitz, & Hitz" 2003 DVD includes an interview with Sweet guitarist Andy Scott. On the DVD, Andy states that Fox on the Run was their biggest ever selling chart single. Who is going to argue with him? Hence, I have now reverted this paragraph to what I originally submitted.

Regards, Bivariate-correlator 14:02, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

"A second album was released during 1974, called Desolation Boulevard. One of the tracks off this album was a cover of The Who's "My Generation"." What is this??? My copy of Desolation Boulevard (vinyl) doesn't have this song on it. JoeMystical 05:26, 25 December 2005 (UTC)


 * There were two released versions of the Desolation Boulevard LP. The Australian/European version includes "My Generation". The U.S. version is a mixture of the Sweet Fanny Adams & Desolation Boulevard LPs.

Regards, Bivariate-correlator 04:46, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The paragraph that commences "In 1975, RCA ...." does not make any sense to me. Would someone care to re-visit it ?
 * Derek R Bullamore 17:15, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Cover versions
The contents box lists both 'Cover Versions of Sweet Material' and 'Famous Cover Versions', which seem to deal with the same subject. For simplicity, should these not be merged ? Derek R Bullamore 15:34, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Did it myself. "If you want a job doing...." Mind you, it took me over two years !! Derek R Bullamore (talk) 22:35, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well done, I always wondered why there were two distinct lists. And you are right, the article needs sources. However, I wonder how we can source this particular list, especially when the song covered does not appear on any of the bands albums...? – IbLeo (talk) 07:43, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, the sourcing of such lists is nigh on impossible in its entirety. It is probable that Allmusic and band's own websites etc., may be of some use. Perhaps only sourced entries should be included ? Frankly, if you take it to its illogical conclusion, how many cover versions are there of The Beatles' songs, and how much extra Wiki space would that take. Actually the present Sweet article is desperately short of references throughout - possibly a far more pressing and worthwhile endeavour.


 * Derek R Bullamore (talk) 21:35, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Connollys ashes
In the article it states "his ashes were scattered over the water".. what water? A cup of water? A sinkfull of water? A font of holy water? This should be clarified.

Rearranged the article
I've given the article a whole new layout, and I hope everyone likes the new arrangement. If there's anyone that has any suggestions or objections to it, I'd love to hear your views :) HK51 21:59, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Influences and contemporaries
Normally this isn't part of a Wiki article. I will delete it as so. --Soetermans 21:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Connolly
Anyone think Brian deserves his own article? As I certainly do, a great and tragioc rock hero, SqueakBox 17:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

What about Chad Brown?
Wasn't Chad Brown the lead singer of Andy Scott's Sweet for several years in the mid - late 90's? He's not mentioned at all on the Sweet page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GenkiSugiru (talk • contribs) 12:07, 14 May 2007 (UTC).

Sweet redirects to sweetness???
If you search for sweet it redirects to sweetness. That ain't right. We need disambiguation. Ozmaweezer 15:09, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The Sixteens was a bigger hit than it is given credit for.
It was used several times as backing to porn movies. It rates a bigger mention

Added heavy metal
as some of their albums are labeledheavy metal and they had some heavy metal songs i added it as an extra genre please dont revert71.17.159.25 (talk) 23:59, 2 June 2008 (UTC) whi the fuck keeps reverting this
 * There are probably several reasons but the main one is likely due to the fact that it is completely wrong. Libs (talk) 04:56, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * actually they are i saw them tonight they are fucking heavy and real metal, i also met them they singed my cd and gave me a guitar pic on stage and were fucking nice. im putting it back Zakkman (talk) 06:27, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia isn't based on personal opinion. It is based on verifiable references. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 15:34, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

ill find a reference Zakkman (talk) 15:41, 10 August 2008 (UTC) http://www.nolifetilmetal.com/sweet.htm theres your source Zakkman (talk) 15:42, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Your source is linkspam and does not meet WP:RS criteria. Libs (talk) 23:26, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

illl bgget a neew source then. 05:07, 11 August 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zakkman (talk • contribs) well icant find a source but maybe we could use glam metal as a compromise. Zakkman (talk) 09:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Both hard rock and glam rock are listed in the field and that is more than adequate as a description for this band. Their music is more Pop rock than anything else and it appears there as well. So no more needs to be added. Libs (talk) 10:36, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I also consider Sweet as 70's metal, at least their own produced and post-Chapman/Chinn material. //Klippdass Thanks for supporting me 71.17.159.25 (talk) 23:00, 4 September 2008 (UTC) I changed the genres to Hard rock Glam rock Pop rock (early) Heavy metal (later) It's all right to me. Sweet is also in the book "The Rough Guide to Heavy Metal" by Essi Berelian and is described as, yeah, a heavy metal band! //Klippdass

The Sweet Featuring Little Willy & Block Buster album title
→ ''Discussion moved to Talk:The Sweet Featuring Little Willy & Block Buster where it logically belongs. Feel free to comment over there.'' – IbLeo (talk) 11:40, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Guest musicians or not?
The section detailing lineups of the band is technically inaccurate because one contributor insists on deleting reference to Gary Moberley, Nico Ramsden and Ray McRiner as "guest musicians". This trio were ONLY ever guest musicians and NEVER had the status of band member, so I don not know why this qualification is removed. See the followig hyperlink/references http://www.algonet.se/~sweetfa/lp_cut_nor_b.jpg and http://www.algonet.se/~sweetfa/lp_waters_uk_b.jpg for confirmation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.56.179.17 (talk) 06:26, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, those three were definitely guest musicians and not permanent band members. I am actually not convinced that they are notable enough to be mentioned in this section at all. So, for the moment I have reinstated your "guest musician" labels. I would like to hear other peoples opinions - would anybody else want to comment? – IbLeo (talk) 11:16, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

The song is called THE Ballroom Blitz
→ ''Discussion moved to Talk:Ballroom Blitz where it logically belongs. Feel free to comment over there.'' – IbLeo (talk) 11:26, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Give Us an Exclamation mark!
→ ''Discussion moved to Talk:Give Us a Wink where it logically belongs. Feel free to comment over there.'' – IbLeo (talk) 11:45, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Source for Australian chart positions
Does anyone know a verifiable source for the Australian single and album chart positions currently cited in the article? shows nothing, so they supposedly does not have information from back in the 1970's. I am working on a new Sweet discography and I would like to cite the sources. Thanks in advance. – IbLeo (talk) 22:20, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Level Headed- recording location
Whilst it is true Level Headed was primarily recorded at Chateau d'Herouville in France, the album credits also indicate recording took place at Kingsway Recorders in London. Andy Scott says in the band's most recent DVD (Glitz, Blitz & Hits) that the single Love is Like Oxygen was the last track recorded for the album and this was done after the band returned to England. For this reason I have slightly amended the entry regarding the recording location reflect this point.Hongkongmick (talk) 05:15, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi. Thanks for clarifying your update. It would be even better if you inserted a reference in the article to your source (the DVD you mention), e.g. by using Template:Cite video. Furthermore, I suggest you improve the Level Headed album article itself by adding the recording location(s) to the Infobox. This information is currently missing. Cheers. – IbLeo (talk) 08:06, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅ I have updated the recording location for Level Headed accordingly. – IbLeo (talk) 17:45, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Discography now in separate article
Please note that I reworked the main discography and moved it to its own article. You are welcome to read the notes that I left on its talk page to explain some important points (and maybe you can help find some missing sources). Cheers. – IbLeo (talk) 20:35, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Recent changes I made that were reverted
The capitalization of the sections was in keeping with standard formatting for titles. But if you do not wish to have your sections on here capitalized, I will adhere to your wishes. The year of Sweet's formation is usually given as 1968(I'm sure that is when the band's name was shortened to Sweetshop). But the reason I changed it was because Steve Priest in his book Are You Ready Steve? recalls the group forming in 1967 but not playing any gigs until early 1968. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.185.48.31 (talk) 01:14, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for discussing this. Yes, it is important that we follow the Manual of Style (as well as other guidelines and policies) to assure a coherent presentation across Wikipedia. It is interesting that you own Priest's book, it can be a valuable source for this article, which is desperately short of reliable sources. You are welcome to update the article with facts from the book, provided that you cite it as source, for example by using Template:Cite book for this purpose. But before that I would really encourage you to sign up and read the tutorial. Cheers! – IbLeo (talk) 16:42, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

'Lower case'
Not sure why you're so obsessed with changing some of the first letters of words in some song and album titles but wish you'd actually look at the discs and then stop it! For example "Give Us A Wink!" is not "Give Us a Wink!"- look at the album cover for a clue...
 * May I please recall that the governing rule here on Wikipedia regarding capitalization of album and song titles is WP:ALBUMCAPS. This rule has been establish through years of collaboration and consensus, and it is really sad to see the standard being violated over and over again, especially in this article. If you want to propose changes to this standard, please do so over at WP:ALBUMS instead of just following your own rules. Thanks. – IbLeo (talk) 20:56, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Rephrase "stopped at the gates of"
Article current reads: "... stopped at the gates of the United Kingdom Top 10, at number 11."

This sounds un-encyclopedic to my ear -- "stopped at the gates of" number ten, meaning number eleven. This is fine for a rock review or a press release, but seems out of place for Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Karl gregory jones (talk • contribs) 17:55, 23 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I Agree. Feel free to go ahead and change it. Cheers. – IbLeo (talk) 20:58, 23 November 2009 (UTC)


 * by this edit. – Ib Leo (talk) 21:42, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Members
Does it make any sense to use the infobox to list the completely irrelevant members of the two completely irrelevant bands calling themselves Sweet that currently exist? Sweet hasn't released a new studio album since 1982. Listing a bunch of nobodies that two of the original members have assembled into rival bands which dubiously tour the oldies circuit as the "members" of the group is pretty ridiculous. We should list the band's members from the time when it was actually a real band. john k (talk) 15:48, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree John. The infobox should ONLY reflect the classic 1970-78 lineup. And to the person who wrote that Sweet had five number twos on the UK charts, yes, you're right but it was Co-Co not Wig Wam Bam (number 4) among them. Please be accurate. It's clearly listed in Leo's discography. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.161.180.127 (talk) 08:51, 16 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Both issues seems to be fixed in the current version of the article. – Ib Leo (talk) 22:06, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

AS sweet-Sweetlife
Should this be added to the discography? Sweet – Sweetlife, Andy Scott’s sweets new studio album. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.106.160 (talk) 10:35, 14 February 2010 (UTC)


 * With all respect for Andy Scotts music and his career after Sweet, I wouldn't consider these albums real Sweet albums. And neither of them AFAIK are explicitly released under the Sweet group name. I would agree that they should be added to Wikipedia, but I would rather include them in a discography section in the Andy Scott article. – Ib Leo (talk) 20:40, 17 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with Ib Leo, none of the official sweet sites list it as part of the discography. Maybe add them to Andy Scott’s page with (As Andy Scott's Sweet) in brackets.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.3.96.29 (talk) 20:16, 8 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I have compiled a discography of all the Andy Scott releases that I could find on the internet and published it over at Andy Scott (guitarist). You are kindly invited to have a look and correct me if I got something wrong, or even add missing information (I didn't manage to find details about all the record companies). Cheers. – Ib Leo (talk) 12:24, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Looking good Ib Leo, i found this,  anyone know if this is Andy Scotts sweet or Brian Connelly’s, all the reviews have told me is that it's not the original line up?Emrabt (talk) 16:19, 12 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks :-). Didn't know about that DVD. Looks like something of a scam, really, with a picture of the "classic" lineup on the front cover and a live performance with some incarnation of Andy Scott's Sweet, judging by the customer reviews. Not sure if it's worth adding. – Ib Leo (talk) 17:25, 12 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I think it shouldn't be added, looks like a bootleg, or an unofficial release by a company that doesn't realize the bands line up changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.3.96.29 (talk) 19:34, 12 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, so let's leave it out. PS. Are IP 92.3.96.29 and Emrabt the same person? – Ib Leo (talk) 22:06, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Splitting the different versions into different articles?
As they are all very different bands in their own right, how about a separate article for each? It will also prevent some of the clutter and confusion in the band line up section. 92.3.96.29 (talk) 16:10, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I have actually done some thinking in the same lines myself recently. But I am afraid that separate articles about BC Sweet, Andy Scott's Sweet and Steve Priest's Sweet wouldn't stand the test of notability that is policy here on Wikipedia. Instead I propose to move those parts to the articles on Connolly, Scott and Priest, respectively. That would also improve the content and quality of the last two, which are rather meager at the moment, I am afraid. – Ib Leo (talk) 17:17, 12 March 2010 (UTC)


 * This is a very good idea, moving the respected versions to the members pages will end confusion, stop this page being cluttered with 4 differant bands and stop people adding AS SP & BC band members to the infobox. I'm all for moving the content. In the Band member timelines where it say "BAND SPLIT" we can add a link to each page eg. Band split into:
 * BC SWEET-1984
 * Andy Scott's Sweet-1985
 * Steve Priest's Sweet.-2008 Emrabt (talk) 21:16, 12 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me. If you want to get started on this, I say "go ahead". – Ib Leo (talk) 06:27, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Where should we place Live at the Marquee (1989)?

 * I have moved this discussion from Talk:Andy Scott (guitarist) to here as this article is presumably watched by more people

Marquee album- definitely NOT an Andy Scott's Sweet release!

This album was recorded in 1985 when the incarnation featuring Andy Scott AND Mick Tucker was reformed as was known by all and sundry as Sweet. When Mick left some six years year later in May 1991 and was replaced by Bodo Schopf the CD singles and album A on SPV reflected the name change. To refer to the Marquee album as an Andy Scott's Sweet release is thus plainly wrong. Whether it should be instead listed in the Sweet discography is one for debate too. Obviously. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.1.164.208 (talk) 05:35, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Proposal for new band member timeline
I propose to replace the IMHO quite "unsexy" current band member timeline with a more readable and colorful one, inspired by Dr. Feelgood:

Note that the new version doesn't contain Ramsden, Moberley, and McRiner, as they were never official members of the band but rather guest musicians. This is already covered in the article text. Opinions? – Ib Leo (talk) 11:55, 3 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Looks very, very good Leo. Not sure how clearly it reflects Andy Scott actually joining in August 1970. (Hong Kong Mick) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.1.164.208 (talk) 09:51, 11 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi HK Mick, long time no see. Good to have you back. I wasn't sure exactly when Scott joined and the current article text is not very clear on that point. And I was too lazy to look up the sources when I made the draft. However, I am not questioning your expertise on the subject and I have corrected the timeline accordingly. He now joined in August 1970. Have you spotted any other approximations on the dates? – Ib Leo (talk) 20:15, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


 * ✅. As only positive feedback has been expressed, I boldly added the new timeline to the article. This of course does not prevent any finetuning of the dates should it be needed. – Ib Leo (talk) 11:39, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

The Guardian (UK newspaper)- Sweet article (September 2010)
There is a decent length article in The Guardian (a UK) newspaper which contains quite a lot of information and some extra facts about Sweet history. It's available on-line at thesweet.com. Leo (when you read this), I wonder if you want to extract anything from it. I have put in a quote from Mike Chapman regarding the 1988 reunion but Wiki referencing process is lost on me- perhaps you could assist. Cheers HKM. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.1.164.175 (talk) 06:28, 3 October 2010 (UTC)


 * HKM, thanks for letting me know about this, it's definitely a good example of the kind of sources that this article is so desperately in need of. I have properly reformatted the reference using Cite web. It's easily reusable in other parts of the article, simply type " ". I am too lazy to do that myself right now :-) – Ib  Leo (talk) 07:33, 9 October 2010 (UTC)