Talk:The Temple of Elemental Evil (video game)

Greyhawk
If you read List of Dungeons & Dragons video games you learn that Dungeons & Dragons: Heroes and Dungeons & Dragons Tactics are set in the Greyhawk universe. Is it true (i can't find any source) ? If it is true, The Temple of Elemental Evil is not "the only game" set in this universe. Koko90en (talk) 16:16, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The default setting for D&D 3rd Ed and 3.5 is a generic version of Greyhawk, as most evidenced by the list of gods and lack of any setting information beyond that. I think there was an early D&D 3rd Ed. product that had a map of Oerth as well. Argel1200 (talk) 08:22, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Gay and lesbian characters
What is the reason to put "gay and lesbian characters..." link in the article under See also header??? How is this connected with the topic? Walen 13:49, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I was wondering this myself recently. I looked at the page, however, and found: "The Atari computer game The Temple of Elemental Evil (2004) made news headlines when it was revealed that the game has an optional story line where the player can rescue a gay pirate and see him marry one of the male player characters." Granted, this is unsourced information, but I suppose it would warrant a mention on the ToEE article page.--Miguel Cervantes 18:07, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Indeed, after some searching I found out that there is one quest in Nulb that revolves around a homosexual pirate. Nonetheless I still don't see a reason for this link being here. This seems to be the only game's page having it. It might imply that the game is all about gays, while this is just a 0.001% of it's contest and in fact there are several heterosexual romance plots in the game. It is just not important enough piece of information to put in a 11-line article. In my oppinion 'See also' section could instead contain things like original D&D module, similar games, etc. It could be worth to add more detailed information to the "gay and lesbian..." article when I finish ToEE myself.
 * Walen 14:02, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmm... I was more or less following the game at the time, and I utterly missed this "controversy" regarding a gay character (not an important character in the game at all, btw). The most I saw was some people commenting Bertram expressed rather stereotypical view on homosexuals. The "controversy" part in the article seems to me like major exeggration, if not out right making things up. - The Merciful 15:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I always thought 'Bertram' was a pun on 'butt-ram'. Also, I thought Bertram hit on either male or female characters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.115.27.10 (talk) 14:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

The sources listed seem to come from non-reliable sources and blogs of newspapers. Schnarr  08:24, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Toeet 1430 box.jpg
Image:Toeet 1430 box.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:58, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:The Temple of Elememtal Evil (CRPG).jpg
Image:The Temple of Elememtal Evil (CRPG).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:45, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Matthew D. Barton article
This piece does not support the assertion that gamers have criticized the move because they think the "status quo" should be maintained. In fact, the (in)conclusion flies in the face of it.

''Gay avatars are an inevitable development in the evolution of the videogame that will take place with or without this article. If we already see such possibilities opening up in even mainstream titles like The Temple of Elemental Evil, I doubt it will be long before even the idea of a fantasy role-playing game featuring only one white male avatar will seem a strange, misguided aspect of our distant past. Is this a good thing? Should we fight this trend or encourage it? I’d love to offer some general guidelines or at least some advice for game developers on this issue, but, as is perhaps more common in philosophy than we like, the issue only gets more confusing the more we try to analyze it. Perhaps the best approach would be to start talking to self-proclaimed gay persons and determine what they would like to experience in a videogame. To my knowledge, The Temple of Elemental Evil is the only mainstream computer role playing game that gives players a serious gay option without “forcing” gayness on a heterosexual player. Perhaps it will serve as a worthy model for games to come.''

The criticism is reserved for a hypothetical game in which inclusionism is taken to a ridiculous and even offensive extreme. At no point does Barton criticize the concept of a completely optional "homosexual storyline" as the Wiki article implies.

TaintedMustard (talk) 05:56, 11 August 2012 (UTC)


 * See an old discussion a few sections above; I have a feeling this should be seriously altered or removed. 99.126.204.164 (talk) 14:31, 11 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I rewrote it. I think the source does say that gamers took issue with the inclusion of a gay character, but industry professionals seemed to have no problem with it based on the sources used. —Torchiest talkedits 03:33, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

controversy section removed
This game is based on an iconic work, with a rich history in and of itself. The "controversy" being discussed was not well known, widely discussed, nor widely reported on. To place a large paragraph constituting almost a quarter of this article is out of place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.86.71.226 (talk) 20:23, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * You make some valid points, but do we really want to remove the whole section? 129.33.19.254 (talk) 20:56, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Reference material
Here's what I've found so far: That's all for now. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 19:15, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
 * https://web.archive.org/web/20051231082902/http://www.gamestar.de/magazin/specials/events/29618/2.html
 * https://web.archive.org/web/20031205210316/http://www.gamechronicles.com:80/qa/temple/evil.htm
 * GamePro review
 * CGW preview
 * CGW review
 * GMR review
 * PC Format review
 * PC Gamer US review
 * Game Informer review: November 2003
 * GameSpy feature
 * GameSpy review
 * GameSpot interview
 * GameSpot interview 2
 * GameSpot preview
 * GameSpot preview 2
 * GameSpot preview 3
 * GameSpot preview 4
 * IGN preview
 * IGN E3 coverage
 * IGN interview
 * IGN news
 * IGN news 2
 * IGN news 3
 * RPGVault postmortem
 * RPGVault interview part 1
 * RPGVault interview part 2
 * RPGVault team Q&A
 * RPGVault team Q&A #2
 * RPGVault team Q&A #3
 * RPGVault team Q&A #4
 * RPGVault team Q&A #5
 * RPGVault dev journal #1
 * RPGVault dev journal #2
 * RPGVault dev journal #3
 * RPGVault dev journal #4
 * RPGVault dev journal #5
 * RPGVault dev journal #6
 * RPGVault dev journal #7
 * GameZone interview
 * Sorcerer's Place interview
 * Sorcerer's Place interview 2
 * Atari interview
 * PyGame interview
 * RPGDot interview
 * Escapist retrospective
 * Wow JimmyBlackwing, looks like this one has a lot of potential! BOZ (talk) 20:46, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Long time no see, BOZ! Yeah, TOEE could honestly be a great article. I haven't even tapped the IGN sources yet, or gone digging deep into Google Books. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 20:51, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I wonder what Torchiest thinks of that. ;) BOZ (talk) 21:03, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Ha, I'm not worthy. I never played either this or the original module. On the other hand, that hasn't stopped me before, so I might take a look at some of those. —Torchiest talkedits 22:52, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The sources for this game are just absurd. Reminds me of a certain Troika article written by a certain . I see he's semi-retired, but there's no reason not to notify him, just in case. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 04:54, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * LOL, wow, what a project. BOZ (talk) 12:44, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

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