Talk:The Temptations/Archive 1

Older entries
The singles post-1994 may not be complete; the information is based upon both the liner notes for the Emperors of Soul box set (which was made in 1994 and stops there) and the listing at allmusic.com for the Billboard (pop, R&B, or otherwise) charting singles. If anyone could fill in any missing gaps, it would be much appreciated. Thanks. --b. Touch 07:06, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

what about the hit "i'm here" from 2004? i can recall that receiving a lot of airplay. in fact, i remember a lot of stations in nyc playing it without knowing who it was. it was one of the top requested tunes on contemporary r&b radio by the time the true identity of the artist was publicized. it was brilliant marketing during a time when new releases by many "older" acts weren't getting much attention on commercial radio. like many of their hits, "i'm here" still sounds great 10 years later. does anyone know if it charted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:C283:7C00:71F5:82B6:4D73:596F (talk) 19:59, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Did "Look What You Started" (1987) chart? That got a ton of airplay at the time if I remember correctly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:C283:7C00:71F5:82B6:4D73:596F (talk) 20:11, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

RE: "It's Growing"
That's David Ruffin on lead, not Paul Williams. The liner notes for the Temptations Emperors of Soul box set confirm such. From what Otis Williams says, "It's Growing" was designed as a deliberate follow-up to "My Girl". --b. Touch 15:12, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Boy band?
See: Boy_band. Hyacinth 00:56, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * I saw it. But do the Temptations really count as a boy band? They weren't "pacakged" as "the cute one", etc. or sold for pure sex appeal, nor were they any more or less producer and label-controlled than any other group at Motown. Plus, they were in their early-to-mid 20s when they first signed to Motown. I've never, in my 15+ years of listening to soul music, heard the Tempts referred to as a "boy band". The first boy band would arguably (ARGUABLY, that is) be The Jackson 5. I'd say the Tempts should come off that list. What do you think? --b. Touch 02:55, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

FAC
I was gonna nominate this a week or two ago, but didn't because I knew it was being edited. I've made one change, reducing the size of the first pic, because it made the lead section very narrow and awkward looking. A few questions:
 * What does Street would front a new group of Distants for the local Thelma during the early 1960s. What is a "Thelma"?


 * Thelma LABEL. Thelma was another Detroit label. Oops. FIxing...--b. Touch 02:00, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * The "Influences and colleagues" section seems to be in an odd location. Maybe move to before "Forming the Temptations"?
 * In the "Influences and colleagues" section, a couple words seem to be missing from The various members of The Temptations met a number of their later Motown bandmates, labelmates, and producers..

There may be more soon, but I gotta go now. Overall, great work! Tuf-Kat 01:53, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)


 * I'll fix these up. Also, I don't know about wiki-linking the non-Temptation Primes and Distants, especially since (1) they don't really meet the musician notability guidelines of having performed in front of more than 5,000 people and (2) Try as I might, I can't sem to find any biographical info for them. I'll unlink them for right now, but if we can find any info on them, we can relink them. One thing in PARTICULAR I would like to have official is the spelling of Kel Osbourne's name (I've seen Cal Osbourne, Kell Osbourn, and every other variant spelling--apparently Eddie and Paul didn't remember how to spell their buddy's name...lol). The Cadillacs, on the other hand...I'll stub that right now.--b. Touch 02:00, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * The musician notability guidelines include anyone who was once a part of a group that later became notable (or something to that effect). There are a lot of name changes and sister groups and the like involved, so I'm not sure how that would apply to the individuals in question, but I'd rather err on the side of including information (I know, it's just a link in this case, but the principle is the same) -- plus it just looks really weird to link to articles on three or four members of a group, but then not on the last one listed.  The Cadillacs was indeed the only one I was sure were notable (thanks for the stub!). Tuf-Kat 02:50, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * A few more minor changes: Tuf-Kat


 * There's no need to abbreviate "The Temptations" to "The Tempts", since we don't need to save paper space or anything (I think there's a policy on this). Also, when used as part of the name of the band, the T in The should be capitalized, I think.
 * Along the same lines, it seems to me that I've seen the band referrred to in print as The Temps much more often than as The Tempts as called out in the lead, and a quick Google search seems to back me up on this. Putting both variations in the lead will just uglify it, though; I'd suggest that neither nickname needs to be included in the lead sentence, but perhaps both could be mentioned a bit later? Jgm 02:32, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * The autobiographies of Otis Williams and Mary Wilson both confirm that the proper spelling of the abbreviation is in fact "Tempts" with the "t". I was confused myself, because either spelling is pronounced the same way. But throughout his book, Williams refers to his group as "The Tempts". Besides, "Temps" means "temporary workers". --b. Touch 18:13, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * In the "Initial impact" section, I linked The Flamingos and The Vibrations. Assuming this is the same Flamingos that already have an article, they are assuredly notable.  Less sure about the Vibrations -- I'm pretty sure there's a famous band by that name, but I think of Tony Jackson & the Vibrations, a British merseybeat band, judging from the google hits, which may or may not be what is meant (and is apparently not who our Tony Jackson article is about).  Googling reveals many hits for at least a half-dozen bands, most of which are probably not notable.  Uggh!  I'll see about sorting this out tomorrow.
 * Same section ("Initial impact"): While there were a number of smooth and sophisticated male soul performers before The Temptations became successful, including labelmate Marvin Gaye, The Temptations were influential and making sophistication and romance more popular than the rawer gospel-based sound popularized by the Stax label. -- ugly sentence indeed. Too tired to think of a way to fix it at the moment.
 * Removing the bit about fame going to David Ruffin's head. It may be entirely or mostly indisputed, but isn't really necessary anyway -- let the reader judge what he was thinking when he did all those things; the sentence reads fine without it.
 * Removed the see alsos, as they are already linked in the article text. Generally, a "see also" is something which isn't mentioned yet (i.e. because the article is missing something).  Once there's a link, the see alsos should be removed.
 * The only significant issue, I think, is that it isn't really explained why this group is notable. The lead mentions that they were popular, even of unprecedented popularity, but the article doesn't really go into what the long-term influence of the Temptations has been.  I have a book on American popular music that cites the opinions of a dozen or more authors for pretty much anyone of repute in the field... except, as I have just discovered, for the Temptations, who aren't even in the index...  Odd...  Anyway, it shouldn't be hard to find some juicy quotes and whatnot about why they were so important. It's too late for me now, though. Tuf-Kat 04:12, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)


 * I took care of everything that was left except the last one. I'm still looking too. --b. Touch 05:15, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Update--I found a notability reference, and the edits from others also helped as well. --b. Touch 15:52, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

A quick once-over
I've done a really quick once-over up to (but not including) "Dry spell" -- primarily punctuation. Anal, nit-picky stuff. (Watch the tendency toward overuse/misuse of semicolons to join sentences and overly long sentences.) This is a truly encyclopedic piece and, from what I've read so far, extremely well done. My compliments to the various contributors. Peace. deeceevoice 07:26, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Chronology, 1997
I changed some of the members around, after finding this picture http://www.thetemptations.com/v-web/gallery/former-various/Temptations_1997, which shows Terry Weeks and Theo Peoples in the group at the same time. According to the Temptations official website, Ollie Woodson left in 1996, not 1998; and Terry joined in 97. This means that Theo took over as lead after Ollie left, and Theo was then replaced by Bo Henderson in 98.


 * Thanks. The lineup changes are so complicated at some points that you need a scorecard to keep up. --FuriousFreddy 01:36, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Rod Stewart & CBS
You forgot the song that they did with Rod Stewart in 1991 ("The Motown Song") and the "Get Ready" remix for CBS in 1990. 71.111.215.224 12:27, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

HARRY MCGILBERRY PAST AWAY THE MONTH APRIL 2006

Major Editing
There is a link under the discography section entitled "Lost And Found: You've Got To Earn It (1962-1968). It seems like it needs a lot editing. I have no idea how to do that stuff. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GlassOnion921 (talk • contribs).

Glenn Leonard from the Unifics?
I believe this is an error in the article. I've never heard this before and even the page this links to dosen't mention him as a member. He was a member of a couple of other groups though, most notably true reflection. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.151.10.163 (talk) 03:45, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Temptations - solid rock.jpg
The image Image:Temptations - solid rock.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --07:14, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Citation Issues
This article has many sections with few or no citations - including sections containing possibly injurious claims. I've flagged the article. People, if you don't want your stuff removed, cite it! 98.232.58.2 (talk) 18:57, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

And much of the historical sections are derived from the fictionalized movie, not from valid references.173.88.154.149 (talk) 00:04, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Non free images
I'm wondering how this article is sliding through with so many album covers and non free images when most other articles (musician's biographies-- BLPs) are shot down on sight? --Leahtwosaints (talk) 08:28, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Probably because only one member is still alive. There were originally more images; this is cut down. --FuriousFreddy (talk) 13:51, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Are these old publicity photos free images necessarily?
I'm in the process of verifying the copyright status of this photo from circa 1969; as has been standard procedure in Commons, any photo published without a copyright notice between 1923 and 1977 falls in the public domain. That presumably includes most publicity photos from the era that lacked a copyright symbol/other explicit copyright notice.

I think this photo from 1970 also may be used, as I don't see a copyright notice there, and Wikimedia Commons has many other William Morris Agency photos from the '60s uploaded.

If someone could remove the watermark from this 1972 photo of the Temptations maybe it could be used, but the Tribune Company is selling this and many other publicity photos for profit even though there's not a visible copyright notice written on the photo front or back. Arbor to SJ (talk) 01:54, 25 February 2013 (UTC)


 * The publicity photos are mostly being used with fair use claims - the vast majority of photographs of the Temptations available for use here are copyrighted, and four of the six most significant members are long since deceased. Anything that can be found and verified could be used, but, for historical purposes, a photo with David Ruffin should be used as the lead image, not one with Dennis Edwards. I'm going to swap the photos currently in the article as such - I understand we desire free use images over fair use, but it shouldn't be done in place of accurate content. --FuriousFreddy (talk) 16:11, 21 March 2013 (UTC)


 * As for the other photos, The 1972 photo is in pretty bad shape even without a watermark. Motown still heavily uses the 1970 photo to promote that era of the Temptations, so even if there is no copyright notice on it, I'm not sure it's safe to use as a "free" image. Given it depicts the same era as the Ed Sullivan photo you already found (and one issue with an article on this group is the ever-rotating lineup and a desire to not overload on images in trying to show what everyone looked like), we might be good to either skip it or pick one over the other (I'd pick the pub. photo myself). --FuriousFreddy (talk) 16:28, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Need clean-up, rewrite, and citations on Splinter Groups
I did a few minor edits, cleaning up mixed tenses and such, but this whole section needs a rewrite. The few citations that have been inserted are inaccurate or dead. Large swathes of information have no citations at all. The language reads like a tabloid instead of an encyclopedia.

Examples:"They were on tour all over the world from 1989 until 1991, and they were making a lot of money."

"David Ruffin and Eddie Kendricks started doing drugs again, and Josie Short started eating ice cream whenever David Ruffin was late."

"Josie Short would usually get hungry halfway through the show because she couldn't eat a big meal on tour days until after the show. After every show, she would go to the buffet table and eat anything that she could find."

"Despite those facts, they managed to get everything together..."

"...Josie Short was fired from the group because she was starting to look even fatter than the entire group itself..."

This reads like a trash magazine, not an encyclopedia. The only source for this subsection is a link to Amazon to buy an album, but the sentence where this citation appears does not speak of an album; an album is discussed later, but no name given.

The other subsections under Splinter Groups are almost as bad. I think they all deserve a rewrite that is appropriately cited. Unfortunately I know little on this subject and am in no way remotely qualified to do the rewrite. As an avid Wikipedia reader and sometime editor, this section″ reads very poorly. History Lunatic (talk) 07:03, 12 November 2013 (UTC)History Lunatic

THE STOREY OF THE TEMPTATIONS IS TRAGIC, THEY ALL HAD SO MUCH POTENTIAL, BUT ALLOWED GREED, SELFISHNESS AND WHATEVER ELSE TO DETROY THE AWESOME TEAM THEY COULD HAVE BEEN. GREAT SONGS BUT THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE TO SHOW FOR THAT SO-CALLED HARD WORK INTO "MAKING IT"
 * The above comment was posted by user 216.228.224.84 History Lunatic (talk) 21:16, 28 March 2014 (UTC)History Lunatic

Assessment comment
Substituted at 08:27, 30 April 2016 (UTC)