Talk:The Ten Lies of Macedonism

The interview with the author of the book is not a reliable reference. It creates bias and is therefore misleading. Address the issue. Find an independent source, preferable a great world media. Preserve Wikipedia's pledge to neutrality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.111.254.11 (talk • contribs)
 * Do you have a reference countering it? If you do not stop reverting, there is a good chance this page will also be simiprotected.   /FunkyFly.talk_  15:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The anon is right. The burden of proof is on the editor inserting a claim, not the other way round. Any info that doesn't have a reliable source may be removed (WP:V). Note that I personally wouldn't be surpirsed if the claim is true. But the anon is perfectly entitled to question it, and then it's up to you to find a source. --Anonymous44 22:09, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

It's really nice to see this piece of racism on Wikipedia, I'm not surprised. Congratulations Wikipedia, you've become an even greater accessory to racism. Racism!!! It is just a book! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vitosha (talk • contribs) 21:41, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Racists are those who call the other Tatars while they have historical settlements of Bulgars in Macedonia and a hero with the name Tatarchev —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

This book by the Volgarian Bozhidar Dimitrov is a clear provocation, starting whit its name, reffering to the Macedonian population as liers. Its clear that we are talking about a local nationalist-motivated "researcher". Alex Makedon (talk) 00:47, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * He is against Macedonists NOT the Macedonian people.At least he is not an UFO-logist like the famous crackpot nationalist Aleksandar Donski. Most scholars although recognize Macedonians as a recent separate nation after 1944 they do not agree with Macedonist claims. Maqedan (talk) 13:54, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

this is funny
the book claims that there is no macedonian language, but it is published in macedonian :L PMK1 (talk) 10:12, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, I haven't seen it in Macedonian (nor in Bulgarian) - it might have something like the "Macedonian recension of Bulgarian" or something like that.-- L a v e o l  T 12:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, there is no a separate Macedonian language. Simply the book is published in the official Bulgarian language and in its Macedonian dialect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.114.112.218 (talk) 09:17, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

This book is necessary?
The book enjoys wide distribution in the English language in Bulgaria and, to a lesser extent, in certain areas of the Republic of Macedonia. It is also circulated amongst official circles as an experssion of current thinking. This may be valid or not. I do not know. But it is part of a wider context. Politis (talk) 11:07, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Some sources that might be relevant to notability:
 * Божидар Димитров предвидува распаѓање на македонизмот, A1 TV Skopje
 * В Македония изучават Божидар Димитров. Standartnews Sofia
 * Koj ќе ги спречи лагите на антимакедонците?, Dnevnik Skopje
 * Антимакедонска книга се продава на Саем, Shpits Skopje
 * 10.000 долари награда кој ќе докаже дека постои македонски јазик и држава, Vecher Skopje
 * Каракачанов кани Македонци на мегдан во Скопје, Utrinski Vesnik Skopje
 * Претставено творештвото на Македонците од Бугарија, Utrinski Vesnik Skopje
 * Македонец од Софија ги разобличува лагите на бугарски историчар, Utrinski Vesnik Skopje
 * Божидар Димитров бугарски амбасадор во Македонија?, Utrinski Vesnik Skopje
 * Apcbg (talk) 11:27, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * So it's notable for being crap? It's notable for being (yet more) propaganda from Dimitrov (or, as the media which you so happily cite generally say, of Bulgaria)? Unless there are (non-Balkan) scholars talking about its specific importance or notability in terms of the Macedonian-Bulgarian conflict, and not just news articles criticising it, the article should be a redirect.  Balkan Fever  11:39, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. I disagree with terms such as 'crap'. There are better ways of describing something :-). The links tell me that he is not appreciated in the Republic of Macedonia, though I do not understand the language. He is also not very appreciated in Greece and in Bulgaria itself. But de does hold an important position and that is my criteria. As for outside sources, I totally disagree when you say "Unless there are (non-Balkan) scholars talking about...". That is an indirect form of institutional racism (no accusation to you my friend) prevalent in certain parts of northern Europe and Amercia against other parts of Europe. There are world class scholars in the Balkans - including in the RoM; I would never think of not using them as references. One day you might join their ranks (if you are a scholar from the RoM). Always open to your comments and ideas. Politis (talk) 11:57, 20 April 2009 (UTC)


 * My point is if they're Balkan scholars it would be hard for them to be a third party. And sure, in general there may be better ways of describing things, but in this specific case I'll stick with my comment. We cannot use Bozhidar Dimitrov as a source for a work by Bozhidar Dimitrov (conflict of interest, self-promotion), and we can only use these articles to indicate the fact that the book (and Dimitrov himself) are criticised in (Rep.) Macedonia, not to evaluate its overall notability. This book's only claim to fame seems to be that it is considered, well... crap, by many people in Greece, Bulgaria and Macedonia. Other than that, it doesn't look any more notable than Dimitrov's other books.  Balkan Fever  12:09, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

OK, your definition of 'crap' seems reasonable :-) But can we also argue that English or German or French scholars find it hard to be a third party in matter concerning their own issues? I dont want to enter into a discussion, but it does make me think. All I know is that I dont know.Politis (talk) 12:18, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Does it fail WP:NOTE?
Or even if it doesn't you can always follow the standard procedure. If the community finds redirecting is needed, then redirecting it is. I also'd like know if Fut Perf is an admin or an involved user here, if he deletes it again. -- L a v e o l  T 13:13, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I only now noticed we also had a page on the author, who seems notable/notorious enough to have a page. In such cases, the usual stuff is to have the book redirected to the author. Simple. – No, I am not acting as an admin; redirecting stuff is normal editorial activity. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:06, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, since you're redirecting it there, I'm fine. -- L a v e o l  T 20:07, 20 April 2009 (UTC)