Talk:The Trump Organization/Archives/2016

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on The Trump Organization. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081029065351/http://www.nydailynews.com:80/archives/news/2005/10/23/2005-10-23_that_s_rich__the_donald_cash.html to http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/2005/10/23/2005-10-23_that_s_rich__the_donald_cash.html

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Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 17:33, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

I think I'll document a routine edit on the talk page in addition to in the edit summary
Reverted for vandalism 4/25/07 216.201.119.71 16:07, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Interesting. -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 12:40, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

PROTECT
This article desperately needs to be protected. Tons of vandalism going on. -70.162.247.233 (talk) 21:29, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

I second the idea, this article seriously needs to be locked. Jack (talk) 21:38, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Founders
Should the list of founders be limited to Elizabeth Christ Trump and Fred Trump? As I understand it, Donald Trump took it over and renamed it, but I'm not sure that is the same as founding it.--Nowa (talk) 18:16, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Lede
Cleaning up the lede per wp:brd. Feel free to assist, comment, or revert. I tend to prune fairly heavily.--Nowa (talk) 18:17, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Age at formation of Elizabeth Trump & Son
This article says he was 18 when the company was formed, the article Fred Trump says he was 15. Wickorama (talk) 11:49, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
 * It depends upon what you mean by “formed”. This reference (p119) says Elizabeth Christ Trump started developing real estate when Fred was 15 (1920).  His level of involvement wasn’t clear.  This reference says Elizabeth Trump & Son had been formed by the time he was 18 (1923).  This reference is a newspaper of the day announcing a date of incorporation of 1927, when Fred was 22.  It’s possible that they were doing business as “Elizabeth Trump & Son” before the company was formally incorporated.--Nowa (talk) 17:01, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Logo confusion
The Trump Series template may confuse some readers insofar as it blurs the distinctions between the logos used by The Trump Organization, Donald J. Trump for President Inc., and Trump personally.

The text font in the campaign logo used by Donald J. Trump for President Inc. is Franklin Gothic, whereas the text font in the logo Trump uses on his airplane is Arial Black.

See Text Logo Template talk and File talk. --Dervorguilla (talk) 06:04, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Discussion about lead picture at Donald Trump
You are invited to participate in an ongoing talk-page discussion about the lead picture at Donald Trump. --Dervorguilla (talk) 06:21, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

LLC
The full name of the company is "The Trump Organization LLC". The LLC used to be on this page, but has been removed. I think it should show somewhere on the page beside the Bloomberg reference at the bottom. Wickorama (talk) 04:43, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * That information was not backed up by any secondary sources. There is also a The Trump Organization, Inc., and we do not have any reliable sources that indicate that one or the other is the "real" Trump Organization. Toohool (talk) 05:37, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The Bloomberg reference in the article refers to it as "The Trump Organization LLC" that is: "Company Overview of The Trump Organization LLC" Wickorama (talk) 11:27, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * And this Bloomberg reference refers to it as "The Trump Organization Inc". Toohool (talk) 16:30, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Although there is a Trump Organization Inc and Trump Organization LLC, I think the page should not include any ending because The Trump Organization is more than the entity. It is a collection of entities that do business as The Trump Organization. See Oriole7 (talk) 22:09, 21 May 2016 (UTC)


 * "The Trump Organization, Inc." seems to be the name under which the company's real-estate business entity in particular is incorporated. That helpful Bloomberg profile you found says, "The Trump Organization, Inc. operates as a real estate development company in the United States." --Dervorguilla (talk) 01:30, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Limited liability company
I have restored to the article the fact that the Trump Organization is a limited liability company, with a sourced explanation of what that means. This is important for understanding the tax issue, namely, why his personal tax returns include his business income. --MelanieN (talk) 14:34, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Did you see the discussion above? Did you read this letter? It describes the organization of The Trump Organization, and it is not an LLC. Toohool (talk) 18:35, 8 October 2016 (UTC)


 * MelanieN's right, Toohool. It's an LLC. From Trump Organization Legal Disclaimer: "This Website may contain Content not owned by Donald J. Trump, The Trump Organization LLC or any of their affiliates..." --Dervorguilla (talk) 01:23, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Toohool, you have now twice removed the following sentence: "It operates as a limited liability company (LLC),[20] meaning that the income passes through directly to the owners for tax purposes, while the owners are protected from personal liability as they would be with a corporation.[21]" The source for "LLC" is the company's listing at Bloomberg, generally regarded as a reliable source. The link from Dervorguilla is additional evidence. You claimed that LLC status is contradicted by the other source, the letter from the lawyer, but it is not. The lawyer refers to it as the Trump Organization. He does not say it is an LLC (although the description of the business entities all being on his personal tax return is suggestive) and he does not say it isn't. But it certainly isn't a corporation, and he certainly wouldn't be operating the business personally without some kind of liability protection; LLC is the usual way of doing that for non-incorporated businesses. I don't want to edit war over this, but I do think the LLC designation is correct and the information is important to include in the article. Discussion? --MelanieN (talk) 01:38, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Bloomberg also says that the Trump Organization is a corporation. These company profile pages are not very useful sources, they are auto-generated from various sources with little to no fact-checking. See also Trump's financial disclosure report, where you can see that the various Trump Organization assets, such as the skyscrapers, hotels, golf courses, etc., are each owned by a separate entity, each of which is wholly or primarily owned by Donald Trump. Two of the entities happen to have "Trump Organization" in their name, but there's no indication of what assets or responsibilities they have. As for pass-through of losses to Trump's personal taxes, it tells us nothing about the types of entities involved, as a corporation can sometimes pass losses through in the same way (S corporation), and an LLC can sometimes not pass losses through (with a C corp election). Toohool (talk) 03:22, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, Bloomberg and Hoover's both mention a Trump Organization Inc, as well as Bloomberg listing a Trump Organization LLC. But what we see from Trump's own lawyers (in the link posted by Dervorguilla) is "Trump Organization LLC". I think it is most likely that "Trump Organization, Inc." is Trump's real estate subdivision - one of the 500 or so projects that operate under the umbrella, Trump Organization LLC. We will never be able to untangle all this web of businesses. The important thing is to get into the article that his business income and expenses are reported on his personal tax return - as is obvious from the near-billion-dollar loss he claimed on his personal return that was leaked to the press. --MelanieN (talk) 23:21, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
 * None of the sources support that Trump Organization LLC is the "umbrella". The link from Dervorguilla certainly says no such thing. The financial disclosure shows to the contrary, that the various companies are owned directly by Donald Trump. As for the claim that "his business income and expenses are reported on his personal tax return", that's fine if you can cite a source that says so, but it should be specifically about Trump.. using a general purpose source about LLC's such as the Nolo link you cited is original research. Toohool (talk) 00:22, 10 October 2016 (UTC)