Talk:The Truth About Love Tour/Archive 1

Predictions...
Sorry. I don't understand how an independent reliable third party source was able to predict the exact same dates and places for performances as the primary source? The odds are truly astronomical. --  :- )  Don  05:05, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Quit being disruptive. Billboard didn't "predict" the dates.  They used the information given by whoever is organizing the tour.  It's possible that they used information from the video chat mentioned in the article. Ryan Vesey 05:41, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
 * There is no policy that says we can't use third party sources that depend on primary sources for their information. The entire point is that we let a third party source determine whether the information is reliable and notable. Could a date change? Yep. Could a show be cancelled entirely? Yep. The nice thing about this being a wiki is that we can fix it as soon as that information becomes available. --Onorem♠Dil 06:01, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Disruptive? Trying to be factual. I thought the Wikipedia published facts, or do facts confuse the issue?  Billboard used a press release.  By that argument we can use press releases from companies published by third parties to verify information the company publishes.  That sounds pretty circular.  That is exactly the same here. --  :- )   Don  07:15, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
 * There isn't even a rule against Wikipedia using a primary source for that information. It would easily fall into acceptable uses of self published sources.  We don't assume the information is incorrect because it came from the self published source.  The reason I said you are being disruptive is because rather than making your point, you're making this vague comment about predicting dates. Ryan Vesey 14:58, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe not disruptive, if you read Zac's edit summary which says, there is one primary, and the balance(6) are third party sources. WP:CRYSTAL is not necessary to show that this schedule of concert performances should not be included. The Wikipedia is supposed to be about facts.  They are considered facts because we have multiple, hopefully third party sources, to verify that the information presented can be relied upon.  The artist and the tour may be notable, and I will give to the fact that it is almost certain to take place. And, the dates and venues will be notable (assuming the artist does not piss off the world beforen then) after they have happened.  It is possible to present future events that can be verified by third parties, for example the Solar eclipse of August 21, 2017.  This a fact that can be presented.  People who are so inclined may want to sell everything they own and use the money to go observe the event.  Can another person so inclined to see a P!nk concert performance do the same with the assurance that the concert date and place is an unchangeable fact? I have searched 10-15 concert tours for currently popular artists, and none have future dates listed, only past. This list should not become WP:OTHERSTUFF, which is how it will have to be dismissed, unless we want to begin filling the Wikipedia with future schedules of everything in the world, from P!nk to the The Mike Schneider Polka Band and next week's menu at Spago's. If we PROD, then the entire article goes away. --  :- )   Don  16:16, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Tour dates are facts. You are wrong that artists do not post the dates of events at future tours.  Once those dates are confirmed they are posted so people can purchase tickets etc.  Consider One Direction's upcoming tour. Ryan Vesey 18:03, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * That is not the Wikipedia.
 * Tour dates and venues change all the time. That is a well documented fact, perhaps you have not had the experience or frustration of having it happen to you.  Therefore, tour dates and venues are primary source predictions. --  :- )   Don  19:29, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Dude, why should I care that "that is not the Wikipedia"? You're argument was that no other concert tours give information for the location and dates of the stops of the tour?  I was showing that you're wrong.  In any case, the article on that tour One Direction 2013 World Tour gives the dates of concerts.  The article also realizes that some concerts in a tour get rescheduled and has a section for that purpose.  Wikipedia should report the concerts as they exist now.  What policy based reason do you have not to include it? Ryan Vesey 19:50, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Dude. This is the Wikipedia, with rules about fact and speculation.  If you can not fathom the nuances between fact and speculation, then I guess WP:DRN is the way to go.  I'm reluctant to do WP:AFD, that would be a waste of the 3 sentences salvageable. --  :- )   Don  06:59, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I still don't understand how can you debate such a good policy-knower as Ryan on this. We completely know what is Wikipedia; and look, if this article were about the be deleted, then it would have been a long time ago. If you want it deleted so bad, why don't you take it to AFD? You won't find any admin to delete it for you under any CSD clause. Or you go to AFD, or you quit this once and for all. — ΛΧΣ 21™ 03:11, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The whole argument about not writing articles that cover future tours are just ridiculous. I mean, look at the Diamonds World Tour and this spring there was an article about Madonna's MDNA Tour although it hadn't started yet. The Nicki Minaj Pink Friday: Reloaded Tour-article existed before the tour started and as mentioned above so does One Direction's upcoming tour. I could go on, but I think I've made my point. User:Elste007 15.32, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Per AFD
"Concert tours are only kept as notable if they are well-referenced by third-party reliable sources to show notability in terms of artistic approach, financial success, relationship to audience, or other such terms. Tour articles that only list tour dates and set lists are liable to be deleted, as are articles that are unreferenced or rely only upon fan sites."

Per Wikiproject Concert Tours Notability
Concert tours are notable if they have received significant coverage in independent reliable sources. Such coverage might show notability in terms of artistic approach, financial success, relationship to audience, or other such terms. Sources which merely establish that a tour happened are not sufficient to demonstrate notability. Tours which cannot be sufficiently referenced in 3rd party sources should be covered in a section on the artist's page rather than creating a dedicated article. One tour which meets notability standards does not make all tours associated with that artist notable. Michael Jackson's 1988 Bad World Tour is an example of a notable concert tour."

It seems like most of the disruptive editing is happening on the Article page. No matter how many times you type "notable", it's not going to change the facts. This tour is not notable nor is it likely to be notable. Let's just agree to quietly CSD it.
 * Support - Some notability of artist shown, but wrong page for that. No notability of concert tour demonstrated at all, third party or otherwise. Several of the references appear to be glorified blogs and only listing dates and places.  --  :- )   Don  02:05, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I Support you to read N. — ΛΧΣ 21™ 03:15, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I too support such a motion.  Statυs ( talk ) 03:15, 7 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Are you actually still trying this?  Statυs ( talk ) 03:01, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
 * If you want the damn article deleted, nominate it for AfD. LMFAO at "Let's just agree to quietly CSD it."  Statυs ( talk ) 03:03, 7 November 2012 (UTC)


 * "Let's just agree to quietly CSD it"? You cannot agree to CSD anything. If it meets the speddy-deletion criteria, then it's deleted, and this is notable enough to be kept at both CSD and AFD. Regards. — ΛΧΣ 21™ 03:03, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
 * This proposal is ridiculous, if you want it deleted nominate it for AFD otherwise just stop. Ryan Vesey 03:08, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You obvious Pink fans had the choice to CSD it, and end the infighting. Yes, Moma, it is ridiculous, so?  --  :- )   Don  04:57, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
 * What a statement. I'm not even a fan of Pink. Just because someone edits an article, doesn't make them a fan.  Statυs ( talk ) 12:51, 7 November 2012 (UTC)