Talk:The Weavers (1905 film)

Untitled
Both brothers were Aromanian Grecomans and this film was made in Ottoman Empire (today Greece). Republic of Macedonia gained independance in 1991. Jingiby (talk) 18:24, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Macedonian title
I believe this is the same film as that known as Домашна работа (предилки) in Macedonian, though the MK Wikipedia has two separate articles. Can someone who knows Macedonian please check? --Macrakis (talk) 21:58, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Title
Predilki or English-translated: Weavers is another movie by the Manaki's. As you can see on the Macedonian Film Information site Weavers is a totally different movie where a lot of women are weaving. (see excerpt) But Grandmother Despina is the first film of the brothers Manaki consisting of only one women (their 114-old grandmother Despina) weaving and spinning made in 1905. (see excerpt) Blok Glo   (talk)  11:34, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The source, which is publiched by the Cambridge University Press, clearly says the name of the first film made by the Manaki brothers in 1905 the Wavers. The second source I have added confirms the same. The next-the same. Jingiby (talk) 12:30, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I have moved back the article to its former title, as per reliable sources. Neither discussion was held, nor sources were provided for the change of its name to Grandmother Despina. Jingiby (talk) 13:30, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * , did you mean to move it back to The Weavers (1905 film)? Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 14:50, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, my mistake. Jingiby (talk) 14:53, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I tried to correct two times my wrong spelling. Sorry. Jingiby (talk) 15:00, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

and, I have notified WT:FILM about this matter. We need to straighten out the topics per reliable sources and determine what article or articles need to be had and properly name them as well. Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 16:09, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, I am trying to research the matter. The book A History of Greek Cinema by Vrasidas Karalis (searchable here) shows two images on page 5, one with several women, and one with one woman (the grandmother). The caption says for both images, "Manaki brothers, The Abvella Weavers (1905/6). Greek Film Archive Collection." Another book, Balkan Border Crossings (seen here) mentions the Manaki brothers filming "female peasant weavers", among them the brothers' grandmother, though no title is given. Maybe it is possible that the scenes have been identified as apart and as combined, considering the nature of early cinema? Another source I found but cannot access is the German film periodical Kino having a February 2006 article about the Manaki brothers; one of the abstract's subjects says, "GRANDMOTHER Despina Spinning With Other Women (Film)". I found this that talks about preserving the brothers' films, but nothing mentions this particular film or films. Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 17:43, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Follow-up: I found a Cultural Studies article that says the following: "The three films are, the Lumiere Brothers' Workers Leaving the Factory and Arrival of the Train at the Station (France, 1895), and the Manakis Brothers' Weavers of Avdela (Greek Macedonia 1905) ... Carding, spinning and weaving, the subject and the very stuff of movements in the pioneering film of the Balkans, The Weavers of Avdela by the Manakis brothers will be brought into a convergence with the two Lumiere Brothers’ films. Already I feel that we have a crowd here, a crowd of filmmakers and peoples from two ends of Europe. This film was shot in the pastoral village of Avdela, the birthplace of the filmmakers Yannakis Manaki and Militiades Manaki. Here they film their grandmother Despina (over 100 years old), sitting on the ground spinning while children card wool gathered from the sheep and the goats of the village and the women spin and weave as they talk to each other. This multiplicity of movements and gestures of work are arranged in a frontal photographic tableaux vivant, which is a modern compositional principle of photography." It seems from the sources that there is no film showing just the grandmother; she represents one of multiple scenes of weavers. There does not seem to be consistency with the English-language name of the film, so I would be fine with having this article at The Weavers (film) (per naming conventions for films and due to the band's primacy) and mentioning in the lead sentence the other titles this film has been called. There does not seem to be evidence for Baba Despina or Grandmother Despina as a film. Does that resolve it, and ? EDIT:, what do you think? Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 17:53, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I've created The Weavers (disambiguation) and added a hatnote at The Weavers. I've CSDd The Weavers (1905 film) to get this moved back - no strong opinion really on whether this should be at The Weavers (1905 film) or whether it should be at The Weavers (film) with a hatnote for the 1982 film.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 19:44, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

First film shot in the Ottoman Balkans?
It was not really the first film shot, see f.e. the 1904 films by C. Rider Noble (Macedonia Insurgent Band on the March and Macedonian Insurgents Fight with the Turks).--Sinuhe20 (talk) 20:46, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Greek film?
This film was made in Ottoman times from people with Aromanian identiry. Jingiby (talk) 19:03, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

114-year-old grandmother
Would it not be prudent to raise a bit of doubt over the age of the woman depicted in the film in the article? Historic claims of such an age are much more often wrong than correct and I do not think that there is any independent source for this person. The historic data in Oldest people shows how rare (e.g. the list of oldest living people starting in the 1950s does not show any 114 year-olds before the 1980s. Further, this would make her by far the oldest-known person (and the only one born in the 18th century) known to have been captured in motion pictures. -- 79.91.113.116 (talk) 10:32, 8 July 2020 (UTC)