Talk:The World Is Not Enough/Archive 1

Elektra
I object to the line:


 * "until Elektra reveals her true colours as the villainess, making her the first main villainess in the film series; KGB Colonel Rosa Klebb of From Russia with Love works for Ernst Stavro Blofeld, so she is not that adventure's main villain."

First off, Rosa Klebb, while technically working for Ernst Stavro Blofeld, is in actuality, working for S.P.E.C.T.R.E.. and this should be noted instead of Blofeld. Second, by this logic, Emilio Largo was NOT the main villain in Thunderball, Dr. No was not the main villain of Dr. No etc etc etc since they technically worked for S.P.E.C.T.R.E.. Third, I don't see how Elektra was any more of a "main villain" than Klebb. This entire statement, IMO should be removed or reworded to exclude the part of her being "the first". K1Bond007 01:44, Jan 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * It's all a matter of what is shown on screen, IMO. Blofeld is SPECTRE, as established by Fleming's canon. So therefore you are correct: Dr. No, Klebb, and Largo should be considered minions not main villains, since From Russia with Love clearly refers to Dr. No as an operative of SPECTRE, and Largo defers to Blofeld, who asserts his authority by executing one of Largo's fellow SPECTRE operatives. Elektra, OTOH, is clearly working either on her own or in cahoots with Renard (under the co-villain theory we talked about). She answers to no one at a higher level of authority. But the idea of Bond squaring off against a minion, not a "main villain" is nothing new in Fleming's books. Le Chiffre and Mr. Big are underlings for SMERSH, for example, not main villains, and I've personally never considered them as such. However Fleming never really gave SMERSH a focal point, so it's harder to look beyond those characters at a big Moriarty-type baddie pulling the strings, unlike SPECTRE whose focus was always Blofeld, even if he wasn't a direct participant. All this said, a case could be made that Klebb wasn't a main villain even with Blofeld eliminated because it was Kronsteen who came up with the plan. IMO Klebb was as much a minion of a bigger villain as Oddjob or, for that matter, Red Grant. Cheers! 23skidoo 04:01, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * Well I think it's ridiculous to count out Largo and etc as not being the main villains of the films/novels because they worked for someone. I don't think it really matters who hatches the plan or whatever. They were the ones that carried it out, they were the ones that had the focus of the main villain role. I can obviously see Elektra as a main villain (along with Renard), but not so much as the first female. The sentence should be reworded or removed. Another option is moving it to villains page where a section can be devoted to female villains and henchwomen as well as this arguement. It does little here especially in the plot summary section. K1Bond007 05:46, Jan 2, 2005 (UTC)

Book order
In the recent change to the book infobox, the chronology was changed. Live at Five should come first because it was published the very week TWINE was released, while Doubleshot was published the next year. K1Bond mentioned something about consistency so I didn't want to revert it myself in case maybe here's an infobox rule that says novels must be listed first? 23skidoo 15:49, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Theres no rule, but theres no reason why we should even list the short stories in the order they were published anyway. We don't do it for Fleming only because his are collected. We probably shouldn't even list the short stories anyway. It doesn't make any sense. If you're going from article to article by the way it was intended then Live at Five etc are all dead ends. So as kind of a compromise we included them as extra on the infobox - that's why they're even listed in the first place. K1Bond007 17:00, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * They're not really dead ends. Unless something was changed, each segment of the "Uncollected short stories" article should still say where the stories fall in the publishing order, so if someone is going from story to story, they should be able to move from here to Live at Five and on to Doubleshot. I've actually been considering changing the Flemings so that the individual FYEO and Octopussy stories are listed separately in their publication order which is how "The Bond Files" and other sources handle them. I've refrained from doing this because Fleming's two collections are treated as novels by IFP and are better known than the individual stories. It gets complicated with Benson because he never got a chance to do a compilation. 23skidoo 22:34, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Bond girl rumor
I think it's notable to mention the "surviving Bond girl" rumor as I remember seeing it in several noted entertainment columns, I believe Liz Braun being one of them. I didn't know the Gayson's daughter one was false -- what's the source on that one not being true? 23skidoo 20:49, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I looked up the bit about Gayson's daughter. According to most sources I've seen, she was in GoldenEye, only (from what I found) obvious copies of Wikipedia claim TWINE. I don't think the rumor needs to be mentioned. It was false and obviously if we allowed this then God knows what we'd have to allow for Casino Royale (2006) - and you know how bad that would be. It would be one thing if it was validated by EON or if the rumor had more of an impact on the film, but it didn't. K1Bond007 21:10, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I saw the fix regarding GE/TWINE you made earlier -- that might have been a brain fart on my part. Good catch. As far as the other goes, I think it's interesting and it was printed (as opposed to it being NetRumor). A very similar situation involved Die Another Day. I remember watching the evening news (one of the Spokane Washington stations we get on cable here in Calgary) and the entertainment reporter did in fact do a story on the fact Sean Connery had filmed a cameo as Bond's father in Die Another Day. EON later denied this, and of course it would have been a major continuity issue if it had been included anyway. But I think it's still interesting from a trivia perspective. Same goes for the newspaper and TV reports that Angelina Jolie/Thandie Newton/fill-in-the-blank had been signed for Vesper which turned out to be total hogwash. I agree we have to draw the line so we should stick to reports that have actually appeared on TV and newspaper, as opposed to NetRumor and the like. 23skidoo 01:32, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Spelling question
Shouldn't the proper spelling of this article title be The World is Not Enough with a lowercase "is"? 23skidoo 16:18, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * It's capitalized. K1Bond007 02:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The whole subject is dopey - don't you know that in movie titles, book titles, and magazine titles that ALL Verbs are capitalized? Also, all nouns, all pronouns, all adjectives, and all all adverbs. The only possible exceptions are articles, and some conjunctions and some pronouns. Also, the first word is always capitalized. For example, "Gone With the Wind", "Blood and Sand", "The Hunt for Red October", "Clear and Present Danger", "A Bridge Too Far", "The Sands of Iwo Jima", "The Grapes of Wrath", "For Whom the Bell Tolls", and "2001: A Space Odyssey". In the later case, "A" is capitalized because of its position with the colon. Both items besides the colon are grammatically equal, making the "A" capitalized. In "For Whom the Bell Tolls", we see that the verb, "Tolls", is capitalized.72.146.44.56 (talk) 20:00, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I have seen is not capitalized in other titles. --anon. 141.157.226.147 (talk) 03:43, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

critical reception
can we have a bit saying how critics received the film, spanks!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.93.21.41 (talk • contribs).

Do not split the article
I oppose splitting the article into separate film and novel articles. I fail to see how this would benefit Wikipedia, plus the resulting article would be simply a stub unless you want to simply repeat the plot summary given here. 23skidoo 13:05, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. It'd be a strenuous and, dare I say it, rather fruitless exercise which could spawn dozens more stubs. - NP Chilla 22:07, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Dubbing
The guard that Bond first meets on arriving at Christmas Jones's camp - the one that shortly after says "The bomb doesn't leave", etc., before getting shot by Renard - has been quite obviously, audibly, and intrusively dubbed by Robbie Coltrane. What's the story there?? Worth adding to the trivia section? --Cardinal Wurzel 22:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Christmas comes more than once a year
"After Renard left the missile base in ruins and with a nuclear warhead in tow, Jones joined forces with Bond to stop Renard. Once their mission was completed, the pair spend Christmas in Turkey where Bond found out that Christmas comes more than once a year."

I have not seen the movie recently, so I can't judge these sentences, but to me the "where Bond found out that Christmas comes more than once a year" sounds suspect (sexual innuendo?) unless it's something that's actually happened in the film. Please comment. Even if not an inapropiate addition, it could possibly be made more clear, or written in more encyclopedic language by someone familiar with the film. --62.194.15.60 00:13, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It is a direct quote from the movie - the last line is James Bond's telling Dr. Jones he always thought Christmas comes only once a year. 80.178.42.173 10:17, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * 62.194.15.60, Yes, it is in the movie. No :80.178.42.173 it is no longer in the article and should not be put back in. It is just a joke and is sexual innuendo. Why aren't you arguing for ever other minor joke to be included? I suspect because this one gives you some special enjoyment. That's not a reason for inclusion. Mark83 11:00, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I do not argue for this joke. In fact, it sounds to me like it was taken from a porno movie. (And is not appropriate for an encyclopedia) 80.178.76.11 12:31, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The whole argument is patently ridiculous. James Bond in the whole series of movies has a habit of talking in sexual innuendos, and so "Christmas comes more than once a year" is perfectly relevant and descriptive of the character. Anyone who can't handle it ought not be reading articles about James Bond movies or watching James Bond movies.72.146.44.56 (talk) 20:08, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Good article nomination
I enjoyed reading this article and it is close to meeting the GA criteria. However, more citations need to be added to the Filming section and first paragraph of the Music section, to support what is being said.
 * ✅ Vikrant 10:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm putting this article on hold as the article is close to GA status, however the issue noted above must be dealt with before GA status can be awarded. I hope that this can be addressed within the seven days allowed by on hold, and wish you all the best with your editing... -- Johnfos (talk) 07:39, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Furthermore

 * The intromost sentence, The World Is Not Enough, released in 1999, is the nineteenth spy film of the British James Bond series and the third to star Pierce Brosnan as the fictional MI6 agent James Bond., kinda pauses when it is being read. Remove commas and reword.
 * ✅ Vikrant 10:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Lines in the reception section have no direct inline citations. Like this: He also gave praise to Denise Richards' performance as Christmas Jones, saying she was "top notch." It must bear a citation since this part is somewhat critical.
 * The source is after the next sentence. Vikrant 10:14, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Parts of adaptation is unsourced or no direct citation.
 * The adaptations are direct sources. There is nothing else. Vikrant 10:18, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The DVD releases has only one citation. Below it, none.
 * ✅ Vikrant 10:14, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Address these comments, especially the sourcing issues so that the reviewer could verify. Thank you. --BritandBeyonce (talk) 08:46, 16 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok. Just make sure all contentious contents are being directly sourced. Wait for the final review of User:Johnfos or his final decision. Thank you. --BritandBeyonce (talk) 10:20, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Pass. Good work. Johnfos (talk) 22:19, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Suggested Move
Why was the novelization given its own article but none of the others were? Since there is now a novelisation article (as well as a video game article), I propose that this article be moved to The World Is Not Enough (film) and that The World Is Not Enough Should lead to a disambiguation page listing the novel, film, and video game. This should be done for consistency's sake. All the Fleming novel are treated in this respect. Emperor001 (talk) 22:18, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The only objection I would raise is that, if people come to wikipedia and type "the world is not enough" into the search box, they will most likely be after this page, not one of the others, but I do agree that there should be some distinction made between the film, the game, the theme song, etc., so I will specify, but I will still point the search for "the world is not enough" towards this page. cocoapropo (talk) 01:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Renard... "the Anarchist"
On March 22, 2007, I removed reference to Renard as an anarchist due to the fact that while he is labeled one as part of his name, there is no source citation which actually describes him as one. I can see this clearly, having watched the movie. The word "anarchist" is only used once as part of his initial introduction by his opponents, no less. At no point does the character refer to himself as one, nor have the authors stated that the character was a commentary on anarchism or anarchists in the film. I compare this to the Marvel comic book character who's alias is "The Anarchist". This character is also not intended to be an anarchist, nor a commentary on anarchism. The comic character has not been added to the List of fictional anarchists for this reason.

Due to an unsuccessful nomination to delete the category of Fictional anarchist that was raised a few years ago, I've been monitoring the list and category to maintain its objectivity. I see Renard has now been added to the category for fictional anarchists, and that the adjective has been added to the character on this page and his subpage, not as part of his title ("Renard The Anarchist"), but as a statement of description ("Renard is an anarchist"). I'll be removing references to the character as an anarchist, except as part of the title "Renard The Anarchist", from this page and from the character subpage. When a citation is found, I'll gladly replace the description myself and add the character to the category and list of fictional anarchist.--Cast (talk) 01:22, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Summary got bloated...
Gosh, how'd the summary sect get so bloated? Let's start trimming this one, ok? Tommyt (talk) 15:52, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Plot Summary ?
The whole idea of a detailed plot summary is probably a violation of copyrights, and completely childish, too. (Like something that a pupil in elementary school - or grammar school - would write.) Much more germaine to an encyclopedia, and legal, too, would be an extensive review of the movie, describing its background, settings, characterizations, the actions of the producers and the director of the movie, and only the bare bones of the plot. For a good example, see the Wikipedia article on "Dr. Strangelove: Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb". It is a much better article on a movie than a mere plot summary could ever be. Legal, too.72.146.44.56 (talk) 20:19, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem is that the plot summaries start out as just that, but they then get distorted by people coming along and adding bits here and there, and before you know it. - X201 (talk) 20:25, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Alpha Sigma Alpha
One amusing scene involves Bond asking a local source for help, tossing out a banner of the guys who attacked him with fan-powered parachute snowmobiles. He says that it is for the "Atomic Energy Antiterrorism" unit, but to me it looked like "AΣA". This also appears on a body delivery car with a Russian star and wreath pattern. The Alpha Sigma Alpha sorority seems a plausible association for a film with such an appetite for women ... searching online I didn't see a specific crest that exactly matched that on the cloth, though. Any way to confirm? Wnt (talk) 02:30, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Discussion pertaining to non-free image(s) used in article
A cleanup page has been created for WP:FILMS' spotlight articles. One element that is being checked in ensuring the quality of the articles is the non-free images. Currently, one or more non-free images being used in this article are under discussion to determine if they should be removed from the article for not complying with non-free and fair use requirements. Please comment at the corresponding section within the image cleanup listing. Before contributing the discussion, please first read WP:FILMNFI concerning non-free images. Ideally the discussions pertaining to the spotlight articles will be concluded by the end of June, so please comment soon to ensure there is clear consensus. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 05:19, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

The Submarine Picture
[User:Mediocrefunkybeat|Mediocrefunkybeat]] (talk) 21:01, 29 August 2010 (UTC)== The Submarine Picture ==

Noticed an error with regards to the picture description. Living only a few miles from that particular item, I can safely say that the picture denotes a model of the submarine and not an actual Victor III class vessel, as the label implies. Please correct this error as it could be potentially misleading to visitors of Chatham Dock Yard!Mediocrefunkybeat (talk) 21:02, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

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