Talk:The Wrestler (sculpture)

""likely a shaman"??
The caption of the photo said that the Wrestler (certainly a misnomer) is "likely a shaman". Although it seems possible to me, only two authors have even mentioned this "Wrestler as shaman": Roy Craven (who originated the concept based on a Florida conquistador report, separated by 1000s of miles and 1000s of years from the Olmec) and Karl Taube (in OLMEC ART AT DUMBARTON OAKS). No one else has offered another interpretation because no one else offers any interpretation.

So, that's why I resist declaring the sculpture a shaman, although the concept is notable enough to be mentioned down in the article. Any other thoughts?? Madman (talk) 03:30, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd say any interpretation of this or any other Olmec figurine needs at least a cite, given Olmec iconography is poorly/variously understood. Also, AFAIK in Formative-era or even general Mesoamerican art, most figurines or iconography that are interpreted as somehow depicting a 'shaman' usually involve a more explicit portrayal of nagual- or way-like transformation, either completed or in the transformative act, so to speak. As a concept transformation is central to the 'shamanic role'; possibly this figure is about to transform but the lack of iconographic clues could argue otherwise. In any case, whichever art historians may interpret this as a shamanic rep. ought to be identified, rather than take it as read.--cjllw ʘ  TALK 01:33, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, CJLL, for your comment. I'll tinker with the article further. Madman (talk) 03:31, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Episode 2 of season 1 of PBS's Civilizations (titled "How Do We Look?") gives several arguments against its authenticity. Among them, the claim that the structurally inherantly vulnerable arms having survived such a long time is implausible, or highly unlikely, sticks in my mind. (Note that it is NTBCW their ''First Civilizations", currently in its premier season.) IMO we need at least more sources, and bios on the advocates of the "real" and " modern" camps. --Jerzy•t 07:47, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Fugure
I have this same statue and am trying to figure out a price 2603:7080:D246:5F00:D99A:CB19:8DA8:8F7B (talk) 23:39, 10 March 2022 (UTC)