Talk:Theatre of Cruelty (Discworld)

Innaccurate Statement?
"The name derives from a concept of Antonin Artaud (Theatre of Cruelty), in which it has been known for cast members to be injured or mutilated for the sake of being genuine."

I'm not familiar with the whole history of Artaud's productions or any other productions that utilized his Theatre of Cruetly theory, but this sounds rather sensationalist and misintepretive of what Artaud meant by "cruelty." Vlad the Impaler (talk) 09:09, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Old Talk
This concerns an anonymous fan-fiction Discworld story - of which there are 500 bazillion, give or take a few. There's no justification in the article for why this one is notable. - DavidWBrooks 16:42, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: It's also 4 pages long. Non-notable. Geogre 17:14, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * For those voting, let me be clearer: the story is 4 pp. long, at 1200 words. This means that it doesn't qualify as a Pratchett novel.  If a discussion is needed, couldn't it be added to the master's article (if it's by him) as "Other things Terry does with computers" or (if it isn't by him) "Stories inspired by Discworld that are just irresistable?" Geogre 13:57, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * I get the impression that it isn't fan-fiction, but a (very) short story written by Terry Pratchett himself. However, the phrase Theatre of Cruelty originates from Antonin Artaud, and probably deserves an article of its own. Average Earthman 17:43, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Wasn't Artaud's theory "Theater of Pain?" I suppose it depends on translation, but that's the way I learned it. Geogre 18:24, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Well, Artaud's theory was in French, I'd imagine. I suspect that Pratchett named the short story after Artaud's theory. Average Earthman 20:26, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Yeah. Jean Genet was "Theater of Pain."  Artaud did him one better: "Theater of Cruelty."  Geogre 14:05, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * It's not fan fiction, it's by Terry Pratchett. Might as well keep. - Mustafaa 19:48, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. It is by Terry Pratchett, and I've cleaned the page up somewhat. If Artaud's theory ever gets its own page then this could be moved to Theatre of Cruelty (Discworld) or some such. Rho 23:03, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep if by Pratchett; delete if fan-fic. But under no case can this be titled "Theatre of Cruelty", which must be Artaud's theory. Acceptable only if title is "Theatre of Cruelty (novel)" or "Theatre of Cruelty (Pratchett novel)". Lesser and derivative works must not mask articles about more important subjects with similar names. -- orthogonal 23:38, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, then do what you wish. It's by Pratchett. 1 -- Kizor 11:09, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. It is by Pratchett but it is a short story not a novel. Rmhermen 14:07, Jul 14, 2004 (UTC)
 * By the way, the term "Theater of Cruelty" was already around as a serious term in the history of theater, I believe coined by Antonin Artaud. Deserves an article, or at least a redirect to Artaud. How should we sort this out in terms of disambiguation, etc.? -- Jmabel 07:03, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * It's also turning out to be used in the titles of academic and journalistic pieces. I doubt any of those would equal Artaud for searches, but they'd all equal the Pratchett term.  Suggest, still, that this entry get merged with the Pratchett entry as a section, with no redirect.  Those who are searching for this usage probably already know it's by Pratchett & will search there. Geogre 14:05, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * A very good point. -- orthogonal 17:03, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Disagree with merging. Including information about one of his short stories in a main article would look out of place. Why information about that particular story and not any of his other work? I believe that renaming would be preferable. Rho 05:39, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean Rho. At present, there is an article for every Discworld novel.  I propose (and will add, if needed) a section break for Bibliography with just the titles of all works linked to their respectives.  That section can break to "Short stories."  If this is the only entry in that subsect., it can be added to.  That was the merge I was envisioning. It's just that, with a rename, it'll be hard for people to find it: Theatre of Cruelty (Discworld), Theatre of Cruelty (Pratchett), Theatre of Cruelty (Story), and then all the Americanized searchers who make it "Theater?"  (Sorry for being long winded.) Geogre 01:56, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Sorry, hadn't scanned this whole long discussion, I see I wasn't the first to bring up Artaud. -- Jmabel 18:31, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * It's a Pratchett story, and was a bit controversial- Keep. FZ 15:46, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, but only if it is renamed. Artaud's work should get priority. Gamaliel 04:49, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Move to Theatre of Cruelty (short story), and use the current title for the Artaud term. Just to complicate things, there are various books (about Artaud and his work) with Theatre of Cruelty in their titles. --Zigger 12:58, 2004 Jul 18 (UTC)
 * Good point- I concur. FZ 16:03, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Summary
I think that this article could use a slightly longer summary. Eldestone 13:00, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Making Terry Pratchett a Featured Article
This is a call to arms to make the Terry Pratchett article a Featured Article. It will greatly help the cause if all the side articles that link from it are of a reasonable standard. Terry Pratchett has around 40 side articles (ie the ones relating to his work) - I don't think they are all expected to be GA (Good Article) standard for TP to become featured, but certain basic elements will be looked at for sure.

A full list of the sub articles is here on the TP talk page: I'm posting this comment on the talk pages of each article on the list. Editors reading may also like to help with the TP article too?

The main issue, especially with smaller articles, is often a finding reasonable amount of citations, and prose can sometimes be a little POV too. Coverage of the topic is probably less important, but of course it needs to be reasonably good. --Matt Lewis (talk) 15:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)