Talk:Theba, Arizona

Help References
Someone help me with gnis references on this article. Burningview (talk) 20:49, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I am not sure this place even exists. Online maps point to an unmarked spot west of Gila Bend - nowhere near SR 84.  A GNIS entry from 1980 wants to call this same location "Theba", and says there is a "Theba Elementary School" there.  There is a school at that location, but it is actually Kiser Elementary School in the Paloma district.  I get the impression that something in the vicinity, perhaps a railroad marker, was called Theba but I am dredging up absolutely no information that a place called Theba actually exists here - and I am pretty familiar with the area.  If I can't find any corroborating information I may propose deletion on this. Shereth 21:47, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Source exists; I've added it and declined the prod. Nyttend (talk) 21:11, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Deletion discussion
The closing remarks of Carlossuarez46 give a misleading view about whether this article meets the requirement of WP:V, since the article itself is the subject of tertiary coverage, not reliable, third-party sources which is the primary inclusion criteria for a topic as standalone article. If they cannot be verified, that's one thing, but generally speaking, if the place exists or existed as shown by one reliable source, other sources will likely be found - perhaps paper ones, which are no less valid - if given sufficient time. Ideally, a source should be in every such article, but the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and nominators should look for sources before nominating such articles, because when the sources are found these nominations reflect poorly on those who cause others to run around to find them under short deadlines.

Since there is no verifiable evidence of notability, the nomination is reasonable, since the absense of evidence is not proof that sources can found in the future. --Gavin Collins (talk|contribs) 09:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:SECONDARY states "Wikipedia articles should rely mainly on published reliable secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources." It specifically includes encyclopedias as examples of reliable sources. The 1960 population figure used in this article is referenced to World Book Encyclopedia. I can't imagine a more reliable tertiary source, so I feel your objection to this article, based on lack of reliable sources, is off-base. Firsfron of Ronchester  10:09, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Tertiary sources are not classed as reliable sources for the purposes of establishing notbility. This means that while primary or tertiary sources can be used to support specific statements, the bulk of the article should rely on secondary sources. --Gavin Collins (talk|contribs) 11:34, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * That tertiary sources (e.g. encyclopedias) cannot establish notability is rubbish. Indeed, if this tertiary source is a general purpose paper encyclopedia, I would call coverage in that source as irrefutable proof that the subject is notable and encyclopedic in the most literal sense of the word possible. If a subject is covered in a paper encyclopedia, and we delete it as not notable, we would be turning Wikipedia into a laughing stock. We were at one point in danger of doing this to the Ellen Hambro article, much thanks to your "delete" vote there, and I am thankful that the community was far more sensible, otherwise the Norwegian press would be having a field day. Sjakkalle (Check!)  09:04, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you suggesting that we remove all articles copied from public domain encyclopedias, such as the old Catholic Encyclopedia and the 1911 Britannica? World Book isn't the best encyclopedia, but I'd still want to see really strong proof to distrust something in it — and significant coverage in multiple reliable sources is indisputably sufficient for notability.  Nyttend (talk) 02:06, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Paloma?
I passed through this location today en route to Painted Rocks and had intended to stop here and try to get some useful photos of the area; unfortunately there really is not anything of note here. There is a dilapidated apartment complex, a handful of mobile homes, a small elementary school (Kiser Elementary School) and some farm buildings nearby.

Interestingly though, the mileage sign approaching this location used the name "Paloma" rather than Theba. The road exiting the highway is called Paloma Road, the offices of the Paloma Elementary School District (and its only school) are here, and the only local business I can find a listing for is Paloma Ranch (they all have Gila Bend addresses). I'm wondering if perhaps some of the confusion might be due to the fact that the town is now referred to as Paloma, but I'm having a hard time finding useful sources to firm up that suspicion. All I could come up with was a document from Maricopa County citing the school and the ranch for water supply issues in which both the school and the ranch are listed as being in Paloma, AZ.

Perhaps someone with better researching skills than myself can find something more substantive, but given the community is signed "Paloma" by the Department of Transportation, I believe it is worth figuring out and clarifying. Shereth 23:33, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * This indicates Paloma and Theba are seperate ("Paloma and Theba"), or were as of 2007. It also indicates that Theba is the hamlet just south of the freeway. My AAA road atlas shows Paloma just south of the freeway on exit 106, with no listing for Theba.
 * A Newspaper Archive search on Paloma and Theba pulls up ten articles on Theba and Paloma, including the fact that Theba was the town, while Paloma was a huge ranch nearby where many residents worked. The was a big scandal in 1977 when the Theba school refused to sign a pledge agreeing not to discriminate against women; I'll see about adding this to the article tomorrow. Firsfron of Ronchester  07:07, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well that's kind of what I was getting at; your AAA road atlas is showing Paloma where Theba should otherwise be. The Rocky Mountain Roads website shows the sign indicating mileage to Paloma but calls the settlement Theba themselves, which is somewhat confusing.  I really get the impression that at some point what happened is the "town" took on the name of the ranch due to the ranch's importance to the area.  I also get the impression that Kiser Elementary used to be called Theba School - there seem to exist some historical references to Theba School but no such school exists according to the Maricopa County Superintendent of Schools .  Shereth 12:34, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Federal aid 1977
Here's a source from outside of Arizona, available on Google, mentioning the 1977 threat of federal aid being cut to Theba Elementary, along with 10 other school districts and 12 other schools or colleges, over sex discrimination.

Sarasota Herald-Tribune; Sarasota, Florida

I'll let those watching/editing this article work it in, or not. Chicken monkey  21:12, 23 May 2010 (UTC)