Talk:Them (King Diamond album)

Requested move 1 July 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 20:34, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Them (King Diamond album) → "Them" (King Diamond album) – see the album cover (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1988themremasteredqh8-1-.jpg) and article itself FMSky (talk) 02:16, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 16:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Info: The David Bowie album article also uses quotation marks in its name: "Heroes" (David Bowie album) FMSky (talk) 00:41, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * queried move request Anthony Appleyard (talk) 16:08, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Manual of Style/Titles states that Quotation marks simply used as a form of title stylization on a cover are removed. It does appear that some sources include the quotation marks, but not all of them, so I don't think there's a case for an uncontroversial move here. Lennart97 (talk) 09:58, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
 * A better thing to go by, rather than the album cover, is either the side panel on the CD/LP case/jacket; or, better still, the record label itself. If the album truly is titled "Them", then that should be the article title; but we shouldnt unless we're completely certain, or we'd be guilty of perpetuating an albim cover-title misconception (like, historical examples, Zoso, Saturate Before Using, pronounced Leh-nerd Skin-erd) Firejuggler86 (talk) 06:19, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Of which, Lynyrd Skynyrd example I see we have under the wrong name...the album was just called Lynyrd Skynyrd. It included a pronunciation in parentheses on the cover, just as we do on their article page. but we have the album at (Pronounced 'Lĕh-'nérd 'Skin-'nérd). smh. Firejuggler86 (talk) 06:27, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * It's called "Them" on both the CD and vinyl itself (see 1, 2) as well as on the back and side (1) --- FMSky (talk) 06:35, 2 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose stylism. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:24, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * This is not a reason as other albums use it too as already mentioned, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Heroes%22_(David_Bowie_album) FMSky (talk) 09:37, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The Bowie album is a very exceptional case. It has extensive coverage in independent reliable sources, and there is even a cited interview with the artist in which he says he used the quotation marks to convey a sense of irony. Here we have none of that. —&#8288;&#8202;&#8288;BarrelProof (talk) 22:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Question What do reliable sources generally use? It's not a matter of "does the official name use a style," but rather, do reliable sources? If they do, then I would support, if not I would oppose.--Yaksar (let's chat) 14:55, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose: Independent reliable sources on this topic seem hard to find. AllMusic does not include the quote marks in the headline of its article on the subject, but its review of the album does, so that is inconclusive. Self-published "official" styling (and directly affiliated sources) shouldn't really matter much. Amazon doesn't include the quote marks in its entry about the album. The cover art for The Eye (King Diamond album) also has very similar quote marks (see the photo of the cover art in the article about that), but AllMusic and Wikipedia and Amazon don't use the quote marks at all in that case. Both articles cite only the same two sources – AllMusic and an offline source. Including quote marks like this should be only in the case of exceptional evidence of independent reliable sources –  and such evidence seems to be lacking here. —&#8288;&#8202;&#8288;BarrelProof (talk) 21:51, 2 July 2021 (UTC)