Talk:Theodore the Black

The parents of Anna the wife of Theodore
In Russian, Ukrainian, French and Mongolian versions of this Wikipedia article Anna (mongol name Julduz (Юлдуз)) the second wife of prince Theodore was the daughter of Khan Mengu-Temur (Менгу-Тимур) and his wife Oldjaitu (Олджай Хатун). This is explained in details in the comment [7], which i copy first in Russian:

"Эта версия происхождения княгини Анны наиболее полно обоснована в: Иоанн (Вендланд К. Н.), митр. [] Князь Фёдор. Исторический очерк. — Ярославль, 1990. — С. 31—37. Практически оставлена версия, что Анна — дочь темника Ногая. Есть версия о её происхождении от хана Тохты. См.: Александров Д. Н., Пчелов Е. В. О происхождении ярославских князей от Чингизидов // Ярославская старина. — 1994. — Вып. 1. — С. 37—38"

and also in the translation to English:

"This version of the origin of Princess Anna is most fully substantiated in: John (Wendland K.N.), Mitr. [] Prince Fedor. Historical sketch. - Yaroslavl, 1990. - pp. 31-37. The version that Anna is the daughter of Temnik Nogai has practically been abandoned. There is a version about her origin from Khan Tokhta. See: Alexandrov D.N., Pchelov E.V. On the origin of the Yaroslavl princes from the Chingizids // Yaroslavl antiquity. - 1994. - Issue. 1. - pp. 37-38"

So it would be logical that English version of Wikipedia also follows this main version and change the Anna's father from "Nogai Khan" to "Mengu-Timur". One can certainly mention two other less probable versions in the comments, as in other language articles.

This father Mengu-Timur is much more logical even from the text of the English version, as Theodor was in close relations with Mengu-Timur and his wife in the Golden Horde capital Sarai on the river Volga and not with Nogai Khan, who was established in these years near river Danube, thousand kilometers to the West from Sarai.

In the Mongol version of this Wikipedia article there is the detailed genealogical tree of Anna starting from Genghis Khan, which unambiguously shows that Anna's father was Mengu-Timur (Мөнхтөмөр).

So, please, correct English version in line with Russian, Ukrainian, French and Mongol versions. Alexandre.rozanov (talk) 21:35, 17 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Good point, I have updated this with an additional source. Mellk (talk) 22:00, 17 January 2024 (UTC)