Talk:Thermodynamic process

new edits
The new edits overwrite what was an account of Planck's classification cited by Guggenheim. So that account was not uncited, though the edit cover note complained of lack of citation. The term 'unrealistic' is not used by those sources and is an unnecessary editorial interpolation. It seems the new edit was made without consultation of the cited sources. The further comments are gratuitous uncited editorial opinion and do not reflect what the cited sources Planck and Guggenheim say.Chjoaygame (talk) 01:15, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Where is this cite? And could you p l e a s e begin to use proper section headings? Thanks. Prokaryotes (talk) 11:07, 21 March 2014 (UTC)


 * In the lead of the section:


 *  Main classes of process 


 * According to Planck, one may think of three main classes of thermodynamic process: natural, fictively reversible, and impossible or unnatural.Chjoaygame (talk) 16:15, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Not all types of natural processes are described in the article
A natural process does not have to be only as described in the article applying to multiple interacting systems, namely "For thermodynamics, a natural process is a transfer between systems that increases the sum of their entropies, and is irreversible." A natural thermodynamic process can occur within a single system because entropy can increase even when there is merely a redistribution of internal energy and/or some conversion of internal energy to a different form of such. Examples are: (a) the redistribution of thermal energy in a sealed perfectly insulated cylinder of gas which started from a state of unequal temperatures, (b) a chemical reaction including fire, (c) phase change such as melting, condensation or evaporation,  (d) the equal conversion of gravitational potential energy such as is approximated by a meteorite in Space in the shadow of Earth and falling towards Earth, thus converting gravitational potential energy to kinetic energy. All these single processes are thus also examples of the Second Law of Thermodynamics in operation, because entropy increases when there are unbalanced energy potentials, that energy being internal energy in any form, not just kinetic energy. Footnote: This is why the Clausius "hot to cold" statement is really only a corollary of the Second Law of Thermodynamics which, for heat that is not via radiation, only always applies in a horizontal plane in the absence of phase change or chemical reactions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.33.9.174 (talk) 23:13, 7 January 2020 (UTC)