Talk:They Live

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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 11:17, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Plagiarism
The bulk of the Production section is plagiarized from a widely circulated 1998 or 1999 retrospective by J.D.P. LaFrance. It was added in an August 7, 2006 revision and has since been improperly cited, reorganized, and lightly edited. I've been unable to find the original but suspect it was posted to an email list or newsgroup. Xot (talk) 08:15, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Pretentious Prose
This page is full of it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.45.177.102 (talk) 22:54, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Wat. GigglesnortHotel (talk) 19:05, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
 * It helps if you include examples to illustrate your argument. Otherwise, it's really not that usefulTheBaron0530 (talk) TheBaron0530 (talk) 20:08, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Reaganomics

 * Briggs, Joe Bob (1997). They Live. Monstervision. TNT.
 * "Piper: "Actually the whole movie, the subtext for Carpenter was Reaganomics. And if you notice, all the aliens are wearing Rolexes and they’re all driving BMWs and they’re all driving foreign cars and so..."
 * Briggs: "All of the success symbols of the Reagan era."
 * Piper: "Exactly. So Carpenter at the end of the movie – you know, I’m here on a green card, I’m not allowed to vote, I’ve been in this country for years – and I didn’t know anything about Reaganomics and didn’t really want to. And he wanted me to go out and tour and talk about Reaganomics and what it’s doing to the country, and I kinda liked Mr. Reagan, you know? He seems like an okay guy, a cowboy...What did he say? He ‘done tore down that wall...And so that’s where we had a little bit of a rub, is that I wasn’t in it for political gain, I was in it to try to advance my career."
 * Clark, Noelene (May 11, 2013). John Carpenter: ‘They Live’ was about ‘giving the finger to Reagan’. Los Angeles Times. Retrieved August 17, 2015.
 * Conrich, Ian; David Woods (2004). The Cinema of John Carpenter: The Technique of Terror. Wallflower Press. ISBN 9781904764144.
 * "They Live was a criticism of unrestrained free enterprise; a definite criticism of the Reagan era"
 * Heuring, David (September 1988). "From Outer Space, They Live". American Cinematographer, 69 (9).
 * Carpenter: "They Live began three years ago with a comic book I bought called 'Nada'," recalls Carpenter. "It was published by Eclipse Comics, a company which puts out very beautifully rendered science fiction stories. This particular strip was taken from a short story called 'Eight O'Clock in the Morning' by Ray Nelson. In the story, this guy wakes up and realizes that the entire human race has been hypnotized, and that there are creatures among us. I became entranced with the story, but I felt that it should be updated. I thought that it might be more current if the guy woke up and realized that the Reagan Revolution was run by aliens from another planet."
 * Lethem, Jonathan (2010). They Live. Soft Skull Press. ISBN 9781593763930.
 * Wilson, D. Harlan (2015). They Live. Columbia University Press. ISBN 9780231850742.

Perhaps the recent uptake in interest in 'They Live' is the possibility of a more plausible front man for such Aliens, not Ronald Reagan, but Donald Trump? Johnwrd (talk) 21:05, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
 * In computer science, there´s a concept calles binary search; if the truth isn´t immediately obvious, the quickest way to find out is by suppressing one of the most crucial alternatives. If, like in a novel that sometimes seems to be directly quoted in this movie´s dialogue, Bridge of Ashes, then this might explain the unfitting title of It's A Wonderful Leap; basically, the hidden powers in the society seem to be more angry at trump for redirecting money away from military purposes to constructive purposes, ie money to be used to pay construction workers, than the other way round. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.1.63.83 (talk) 15:47, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Nada is from Canada...
...as is mentioned in the movie itself. JesseRafe is engaging in disruptive editing while threatening other users with blocks. Can we reach a consensus on this to stop the abuse? 24.11.38.237 (talk) 22:23, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Aside from the fact that Nada lies often in the movie, so we have no real reason to be certain that was true, a bigger question is: who cares? It doesn't matter a darn bit to the plot whether he is Canadian or American. It's no more relevant than the size of his boots or the color of his shirt. Including it contributes nothing to the article. Niteshift36 (talk) 22:57, 22 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Part of the story is that Nada *is* a Canadian who finds himself defending his adopted country. Unlike much of his wrestling career, Roddy Piper doesn't even attempt to hide his very pronounced Canadian prairie accent while portraying Nada. 24.11.38.237 (talk) 23:30, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Um, no. He's not defending the country. It's more mankind than a country. Us vs them, but Us is human, not American. Niteshift36 (talk) 00:10, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * "They" are mostly elite American, though, making the rest of the rabble world he wakes up implicitly "us", if not explicitly Canadian. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:23, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Commentary
Since they live is a movie, it's true that most of the articles relevant to this topic are  mainly reviews by journalists or film experts. However, what disappointed me was that almost all of the sources were from subjective newspaper reviews. Assuming from quantity of information for each subheading, there are lack of objective facts about actual happenings during an overall production but various subjective interpretations about how the idea was formed. Also, the part on 'reception' was devoid of neutrality, in that positive critical responses were mostly referred to. I think it will be a good idea to enrich this article through via objective information and equal discussion of pros and cons for this movie. Not forgetting to mention, I want this article to broaden its scope in an interdisciplinary way so that deeper information can be presented. Bubblegumcheesy (talk) 22:37, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * This all starts with reliable sources. Whatever you're adding has to come from them. Then we can discuss what part goes in, where and how much. Until we're talking about something specific, this is kinda pointless. Niteshift36 (talk) 01:31, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comment, Bubblegumcheesy, and feedback, Niteshift36! This comment is a part of an assignment for a class on New Media, Culture, and Society, and what Niteshift36 points to here is that what a Wikipedia reader might desire to read still needs to be abide by Wikipedia's connected policies on Verifiability and Reliable Sources. Also of interest on this topic, Bubblegumcheesy, is Wikipedia's manual of style for film-related articles under the WikiProject Film (also linked to above on this Talk page). I think you may be interested in looking more specifically at the section about Critical Response and perhaps how to report controversies in a manner following neutral point of view. Vaparedes (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:15, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20132005043700/http://www.bbfc.co.uk/releases/perverts-guide-ideology to http://www.bbfc.co.uk/releases/perverts-guide-ideology

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Who's the bearded guy?
When the bearded guy talks to Nada in the sellouts party, he says that he saw that they had things in common "from the first time they met". But when did they meet? Is it part of a deleted scene or am I just unable to recognize him in the first part of the movie?

On an unrelated topic, is there some explanation as to when Holly sold out? Was she a sell-out from the very beginning, or did she sell out later?92.144.72.24 (talk) 01:43, 24 November 2016 (UTC)


 * The "bearded guy" is referred to as just a collaborator in the current plot - for reference he's the one who shows Nada & Frank around the complex. The two first meet him at the homeless camp where he's a resident.  As the camp is overrun by the authorities he is seen observing and standing around as all around him is taken apart.  I believe he also makes some comment about the TV signals giving him a headache.
 * As for Holly, given her position of power, it would seem likely that she's always been a collaborator - but that's firmly OR, and not valid for inclusion unless sourced. Chaheel Riens (talk) 22:00, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Identifying the Main Character
I noticed that edited the first sentence of the plot summary from starting with "Drifter 'John Dada' finds..." to just "A drifter finds..." I think this could be confusing, as the rest of the summary still refers to the character as "Nada." The lead does note that the character is an unnamed drifter referred to as "John Nada" in the credits, but I felt that this information should be included in the summary, too, for the sake of clarity in identifying the characters. If the summary doesn't contain an association of the drifter with the identity "John Nada," it would perhaps be better to replace every reference to "Nada" in the summary with "the drifter," although I prefer restoring the identification of "drifter 'John Nada.'" I used quotation marks to reflect the fact that this isn't definitively the character's name, just as a character's nickname might be inserted into their full name at first mention, but used in the rest of the summary as the primary identification for the character. --DavidK93 (talk) 18:48, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, you're correct, I removed the first instance of the name because it's never used in the film. But, yes, subsequent uses of the name then make no sense.  There really is no good answer to this, I guess, so I guess restoring the name is the best choice.  Thanks for pointing that out. --- The Old Jacobite The '45 01:55, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, cool. I restored it.  --DavidK93 (talk) 10:28, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * No worries. Thanks for being civil about it. --- The Old Jacobite The '45 12:26, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Excessive linking in lede
This article had the following opening line: They Live is a 1988 American science fiction action thriller horror film written and directed by John Carpenter,...

The four sequential links are contrary to MOS:SEAOFBLUE, which states: "When possible, do not place links next to each other, to avoid appearing like a single link, as in chess tournament"

I reverted a New Hampshire IP-added (21Jan 2024) thriller, but couldn't find a way to copy edit those remaining three links to space them apart. I haven't trawled through the history to find when the others were added.

I would argue it's not an action film, except for the last 15 minutes and a very-long, mutual-combat sequence that was very well acted and stunted; I didn't know the lead actor was a wrestler IRL.

It's certainly not a thriller; slightly suspenseful perhaps, which unfortunately is a redirect to thriller.

I decided to remove action and horror, as I found it a very tame and corny, a big disappointment and I will not watch again. 82.13.47.210 (talk) 01:47, 3 February 2024 (UTC)


 * I don’t think that it should be cited as simply a science fiction film, because you didn’t like it. Especially considering the cult following this film has. Genres also shouldn’t be removed or added based on opinions either, rather based on cited sources. Valddlac (talk) 20:31, 5 March 2024 (UTC)