Talk:Thirteen Reasons Why

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Zfischer97, Sarahlaw1.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2019 and 8 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Jgd57.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 11:18, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2020 and 18 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jmurrell123.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 11:18, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Movie cast
In this article it says the cast is unknown so far, however on Penn Badgley's article it says he got a part. Update? 84.198.23.103 (talk) 18:21, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * And wouldn't that suck for him if he's only fooling himself. — Myk Streja  ( aack! ) 22:33, 22 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Guess he didn't make the cut after all.  — Myk Streja  ( beep ) 03:46, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Oh my god people stop
you have GOT to stop changing this according to the book the order of the tapes and the names are different (Jenny is Jenny not Sheri but in the show Jenny is Sheri). If you see that the order is different than the tv show, that's because it is. If you see any of these errors on the book page, please fix them. E247G (talk) 04:20, 15 April 2017 (UTC) Me


 * The people who are doing the changing won't take the time to look here. It's a shame, really, because the article isn't really contentious, it just differs from the show. Perhaps a section on the differences? — Myk Streja  ( aack! ) 00:31, 23 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Great idea it's a shame I'm just horrible at creating. Great at reviewing tho :) E247G (talk)


 * Oh Great Ghu, I think I just bought myself a project. Hmm, or maybe a target. — Myk Streja  ( beep ) 02:58, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

advert tag
I see no evidence for the advert tag. This page reads like many other book pages, with a plot synopsis, awards, etc. I'm not seeing language that looks like advertisement language to me. Adding the tag was an IP user's only contribution so far. If nobody objects with good reasoning in the next few days, I'm going to remove the tag. If anybody sees text written like an advertisement, I would encourage them to do something about it, but I am happy to help. = paul2520 16:47, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
 * agree, this article is definitely not an advert, with the number of ips that regularly edit this article i'm surprised it doesn't contain promotional words - is this a school text?, a reception section with reviews may be appropriate. Coolabahapple (talk) 01:16, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I haven't heard of it being a school text, but I know it's a popular YA novel that was just released as a 13-part Netflix series. And the show of course has a couple differences from the book, hence some of the recent edits. = paul2520 11:49, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for the info. Coolabahapple (talk) 14:45, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

List of characters
Please add a simple list of characters Skysong263 (talk) 14:39, 19 July 2017 (UTC)


 * The character list seems to be detailed in each character's relevance to the book as a whole and the part they played in the story. A potentially more concise and brief character description may do the article well in reducing author bias and opinion regarding the character's role in the book. This could also limit the amount of individual research present in this section. – Aidepikiw3000 (talk) 16:52, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added tag to http://www.reading.org/Publish.aspx?page=JAAL-53-3-YAChoices.html&mode=retrieve&D=10.1598%2FJAAL.53.3.6&F=JAAL-53-3-YAChoices.html&key=FF2C4450-B58E-4042-9034-F7DE03126759
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Proposed Changes:
Looking at this article, there are a few things that we( Zfischer97 and Sarahlaw1 (talk) 06:45, 20 April 2018 (UTC) ) think could be expanded upon or edited. Specifically, the article has a lot of room for improvement in copy editing and could use some additional sections. The following details our plan of action for approaching the article:
 * Copy edit the Plot section of the article for brevity (remove unnecessary detail that can be explained better by another section, such as some character details),
 * Add a character section with descriptions including "what tape" each character appears in. This section could also include basic nonbiased information about the characters, like the histories explored in the book and/or show,
 * Add to the Reception section, using reliable sources, explaining the controversy surrounding the book and TV show, and
 * (Possibly) Add a Themes section, or expand on the sections devoted to bullying and suicide already mentioned in the article, adding sources.

Working Bibliography:
 * Childers, Katina D., and Annamary Consalvo. “Teacher to Teacher: What Literature Fosters the Examination of Bullying Behaviors?” The English Journal, vol. 101, no. 6, 2012, pp. 26–27. JSTOR.
 * Chisholm, James S., and Brandie Trent. ""Everything . . . Affects Everything": Promoting Critical Perspectives Toward Bullying with Thirteen Reasons Why." English Journal 101.6 (2012): 75-80. ProQuest. 18 Apr. 2018.
 * Hughes, Janette, and Jennifer Lynn Laffier. "Portrayals of Bullying in Young Adult Literature: Considerations for Schools." Canadian Journal of Education 39.3 (2016): 1-24. ProQuest. 18 Apr. 2018.
 * Jacobson, Sansea L. "Thirteen Reasons to Be Concerned about 13 Reasons Why." Brown University Child & Adolescent Behavior Letter, vol. 33, no. 6, June 2017, p. 8. EBSCOhost, doi:10.1002/cbl.30220.
 * Kendall, Heidi. ""13 Reasons Why" and the Importance of Suicide Prevention." Missoulian Apr 26 2017 ProQuest. 18 Apr. 2018.
 * Parton, Chea. "Breaking the Binary: Using Kohlberg and Lesko to Examine Adolescence in Asher's Thirteen Reasons Why." Looking Glass: New Perspectives on Children's Literature, vol. 18, no. 1, 2015. EBSCOhost.
 * Scott, Alev. "Are Trigger Warnings More Harmful than Taboo Subjects?" FT.com(2017) ProQuest. 18 Apr. 2018.
 * Trites, Roberta Seelinger. "Growth in Adolescent Literature: Metaphors, Scripts, and Cognitive Narratology." International Research in Children's Literature, vol. 5, no. 1, July 2012, pp. 64-80. EBSCOhost.
 * Watkins, Kaitlyn. "Thirteen Reasons Why ‘13 Reasons Why’ Matters." University Wire. Apr 27 2017 ProQuest. 18 Apr. 2018\
 * We are not entirely sure if these citations are in the correct format. If you have any suggestions or notice anything wrong, please let us know! Sarahlaw1 (talk) 06:45, 20 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I just added a Character section and Reception section. (Sarah) and I should be working in our edits to the Plot section soon, as well. Zfischer97 (talk) 02:42, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Here was the plot section before edits:

Clay Jensen, a shy high school student, returns home from school one day to find that he has received a mysterious package in the mail, containing seven cassette tapes recorded by Hannah Baker, a classmate who recently committed suicide. The tapes had been sent to various other people before arriving at Clay's front door.

The first person to receive the tapes was Justin Foley. Hannah and Justin kissed in the park once, after she developed a crush on him. Despite this, Justin betrayed her by telling his friends that more had happened in the park than a kiss, earning Hannah the reputation of a slut at school.

The second person was Alex Standall. Alex published a "hot or not" list comparing the girls in their class based on their body parts. He awarded Hannah the title of Best Ass, which only reinforced her reputation as a slut. He also awarded his ex-girlfriend Jessica the title of Worst Ass, in revenge for her breaking up with him.

The third person was Jessica Davis. After being compared to Hannah on the "hot or not" list, Jessica accused Hannah of stealing Alex from her. When Hannah denied it, Jessica slapped Hannah, leaving a scar on her forehead and ending their friendship. It is hinted that Jessica may have believed the rumors about Hannah being a slut, leading her to believe that Hannah had stolen Alex from her. Jessica then began spreading rumors that Hannah was the reason for her breakup with Alex.

The fourth person to receive the tapes was Tyler Down, a classmate who worked as a photographer for the yearbook. After suspecting that someone was taking pictures of her through her bedroom window, Hannah enlisted her classmate Courtney Crimson, who was unnamed at this point, to help catch the Peeping Tom. They staged a massage and then Courtney exclaimed over some "toys" she pretended to find. Based on the glimpse she got as the perpetrator ran away and his reaction at school, Hannah was able to determine that Tyler was the one at the window.

The fifth person was Courtney Crimsen. Courtney used Hannah to get a ride to a party, but then she left Hannah to herself. Courtney started spreading a rumor at the party regarding the sexual "toys" she had "found" in Hannah's bedroom, further reinforcing Hannah's reputation as a slut. Hannah left Courtney at the party and gave Tyler a ride home.

The sixth person was Marcus Cooley. Hannah matched up with him through a Valentine fundraiser for the cheerleaders. They went on a date at a diner where Marcus tried to take advantage of her. Hannah pushed him to the floor, then he left, calling her a "tease".

The seventh person was Zach Dempsey, who tried to comfort Hannah after Marcus ditched her. After Hannah fails to respond the way he wants, he takes classroom "notes of encouragement" from her pigeonhole as revenge. Hannah had considered this class her "haven" as the teacher did not tolerate bullying. She had left an anonymous note about contemplating suicide, but the teacher and the class felt that the note was just an attempt to get attention.

The eighth person was Ryan Shaver. He attended a poetry class outside of school that Hannah signed up for. After gaining her trust, Ryan stole a poem written by Hannah and published the poem anonymously in the school newspaper. When students and teachers criticized the poem harshly, Hannah took the criticism to heart, although no one knew who had actually written it.

The ninth person to receive the tapes was Clay. However, Hannah apologized for including Clay, saying that he did not deserve to be on the list. She admitted that Clay was the nicest person she had ever met and that she wished they had had more time to get to know each other. Hannah broke curfew and went to a party she knew Clay would be at. They had a long conversation and ended it with what she called a "fantastic" kiss, which ended when Hannah began recalling her kiss with Justin and reacted badly. That was the last time Clay and Hannah spoke to each other.

The tenth person was Justin. After Clay left her, Justin and Jessica entered the bedroom, not noticing Hannah on the floor. Justin tried to have sex with Jessica on the bed, but her drunken state kept her from responding. Justin left the room and Hannah got up and hid in a closet. She then witnessed a now unconscious Jessica being raped by the unnamed at this point Bryce Walker. Justin knew about the rape and let it happen.

The eleventh person was Jenny Kurtz, a cheerleader who offered Hannah a ride home from the house party. She hit a stop sign while driving and did not tell the police, leading to a car accident which killed one of their classmates.

The twelfth person was Bryce Walker. After another party she had attended on another night, Hannah took a walk. Bryce called her to a hot tub at Courtney's house. She knew better than to join them, but she had given up. She removed her clothing and got in the tub wearing only a bra and panties. Bryce began touching Hannah, and Courtney left the hot tub. When she didn't actively resist his attention, he raped her.

The thirteenth to receive the tapes was Mr. Porter, the temporary school counselor. Hannah secretly recorded a conversation they had, in which she expressed a desire to end her life. Overwhelmed, Mr. Porter simply told Hannah that if she was unwilling to press charges against "the boy", she should just try to move on.

After sending the tapes to the next person on the list, Clay returned to school and ran into his classmate Skye Miller, whom he had reason to suspect was becoming suicidal. The novel ends with Clay reaching out to her.
 * I just added a new Plot section. These are all the edits that (Zfischer97) and I have planned. Sarahlaw1 (talk) 03:15, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Further Edits
Hello! Below are just some of the things that Zfischer97 and I thought could be looked at further in the article. Please let us know if you have questions about any of the things listed below! Sarahlaw1 (talk) 13:42, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Continue to focus on the book, unless making meaningful comparison to the show, as I believe we accomplished in our contributions to Reception;
 * Eliminate unsupported claims and leaning language;
 * Alter the lead section to better summarize the novel and sections of the article;
 * Create a Themes section, using research; and
 * Update the Recent Developments section as needed.
 * Edit the Reception section as needed.
 * Consider renaming the "Recent developments" section and expanding on it to better reflect the controversy of the novel.

New Additions
Hello everyone, soon I will be making changes to this article, but before I do that I want to share the changes I plan to make. First, I will be rewriting the lead section because it is was copied directly from a source without citing it and I will also be adding more detailed information about the storyline. Next, I will be adding more relevant information to the introduction. Following these edits, I will be trimming down the character list section as some of the character descriptions are very detailed and could be perceived as leading instead of neutral in tone. I will be removing the bullet-point information in the Plot Summary seeing as there isn’t a reliable source to back up this information and in the Differences, with the tv series, I will also be deleting most of the bullet-point information for the same reason. Here is a link to some of the external sources I will be using Annotated BibliographyJmurrell123 (talk) 04:11, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:13 Reasons Why which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 01:18, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Recent Developments
I have observed that there is a lack of information and titles to publicized events that are appropriate in the "Recent Developments" section. Any reason for this? Conwillett (talk) 00:13, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Plot
If there is going to be so much detail relating to the characters and their roles in the "Characters" section of this page, I feel like there needs to be more expansive explanation of the plot. The plot is summed in a very concise way, but I feel like it should be a little more detailed to keep consistent with the character descriptions above it. CadeCaggiano (talk) 02:56, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Differences from the show
Firstly it's a little strange this section even exists here, I feel like the normal Wikipedia convention would be to have this on the derivative work and not on the original. Anyway though, I don't care too much if it stays. I do think we should probably consider removing the bullet point about how the TV series makes choices on race and ethnicity where the book doesn't specify. That's a bit like saying the book didn't always say what clothes the characters were wearing, but then the show decided to make a choice on what clothes were worn. Like yes, the show is making a decision that wasn't laid out directly in the book, but it's a decision that a TV show can't avoid making. I even feel a little bit like by counting the diversity of the cast as a "difference" from the book, the implication is that by not specifying, the default for the book would have been all-white, but then the show decided on a different route. That's probably not what we're trying to say. TradeJmark (talk) 12:48, 2 February 2022 (UTC)