Talk:Thirteenth Step

Cover girl
Any definitive info on who the girl on the cover is? Static3d 05:35, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The page says it's Elisha Cuthbert. Is that true or is that vandalism? Deutschebag17 17:52, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure it's vandalism. I recall reading an article ages ago that said the model on the album cover is the same one in the "Weak and Powerless" video, and that is clearly not Elisha Cuthbert.  In any case, the Cuthbert mention is uncited, so I'll remove it until someone finds a cite one way or the other. unless
 * OK, I just spent the last hour and a half trawling the depths of the internet looking for that reference and I can't find it. But every interview and discussion I did find refers to the photo's subject as "the model" or "the girl".  Given that Cuthbert was already pretty famous by then (24 started in 2001), it strikes me as monumentally unlikely that she would pose for an album cover without anyone noticing it.  Removing the text from the article. unless 08:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * well she is a fan of tool, and it does kinda look like her.65.43.220.55 09:35, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I think it is a mayhem model called Celeste Karasz (http://www.modelmayhem.com/2424128) who has not done any nude modeling as Tanya stated she has never done before. She also has a gothic affinity which along with her features lends to this speculation. As she has a small following I believe that the name Tanya is just a rous to stop people from assigning the naked shots to her profile. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.42.214.158 (talk) 15:04, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Could it be Gemma Chan?

She was a student in a trade school to become a makeup artist. She met Maynard in a bar while she was in class. She was from Atlanta I believe. Nice girl. I was her teacher in the trade school. She took time off to do the music video then just never came back to class. I heard a while later she had returned to Atlanta. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.168.12.230 (talk) 08:07, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

other
The album page title should be A Perfect Circle - Thirteenth Step to be consistent with other albums. I don't know how to change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Codus (talk • contribs)
 * No, it shouldn't. --King Bee 21:37, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Bill Wilson

 * Significantly Bill Wilson, creator of the 12-step program, cheated on his wife Lois with many different women, both before and after sobriety. "I'm going to a meeting" was often a double-entendre when Bill Wilson said it. Bill actually invented the old A.A. tradition of Thirteenth Stepping the pretty women who come to A.A. meetings seeking help for alcoholism. (First you teach them the Twelve Steps, and then you take them to the bedroom and teach them the Thirteenth Step....)

This reads as though it's libel. I'm taking it out, pending a source. --King Bee 21:37, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Can't verify the particulars of the above story about Bill Wilson, but I do know that the term "thirteenth step" is A.A. slang for sex (at least in Chicago in the late eighties) and can have several connotations. At times it's used to mean an extension of the twelfth step, in particular the bit "we tried to carry this message to alcoholics", but with sex, kind of a twelfth step with benefits. It's also used when somebody who has been in the program for some time has sex with a newcomer. Both are vaguely perjorative; to what extent depends on who you happen to be talking to. Ultranaut 00:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

"It has been speculated that the title is a reference to the Twelve-step program. According to Maynard on the commentary for the aMOTION DVD, the album is a concept album with all of the songs dealing with the problem of addiction from a different perspective."

It would be better if this had a quote from the dvd. Which I don't own, otherwise I would do so myself.


 * Here's what Maynard says during the commentary for "The Outsider" from the aMOTION DVD:

"'The songs on Thirteenth Step for the most part are about the various processes of addiction, behavioural addictions, chemical addictions, and each song is kind of sung from a different perspective. I've a lot of friends who've gone through a lot of these situations. Some of the songs are sung from the perspective of the actual drug, from the perspective of someone who has realized that they have an issue or a problem, also from the perspective of a person who realizes that if they don't do something they're going to die, a song from the perspective of a person who is in denial about a loved one, dying right before their eyes.  And in the case of 'The Outsider', it's sung from the perspective of a person who doesn't understand at all what their friend is going through, what their loved one is going through, and they think that it's more like a sprained ankle; they can just kind of walk it off.'"
 * Aottley 13:16, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Is this true?
The article says that Devo H. Keenan (Maynard's son) sang backing vocals on "Pet". Maynard's article says that Devo was born in 1995. That would mean that he was eight years old when he sang on that song. While I know this isn't that much of a stretch, I'm just verifying this... -- D J  G e n t  ò  ó  00:36, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Thirteenth step?
Considering that the Eye of Providence in the dollar note is above a pyramid with 13 steps, it might have some connections to that. Tool has always liked such weird references, A Perfect Circle won't be that much differen. But as said, it is only speculation --93.104.115.199 (talk) 16:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I've always heard that taking the 13th step was going to meeting to meet people to hook up with like you would at a bar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.108.247 (talk) 03:53, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Album title meaning.
When you goto rehab, you take a twelve step program. But alot of people who go to rehab don't go by personal choice, friends and family make them go. So they say that after you do the twelve step program, the thirteenth step is to forget the first 12 steps. In other words, go back to doing drugs. you will also notice that most if not all of the songs make some form of references to drugs, or an event in reference to drugs.

Draget2004 (talk) 18:22, 8 November 2008 (UTC)draget2004

Totally wrong. The thirteenth step is picking up girls at AA/NA meetings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.238.183.8 (talk) 21:41, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The article explains it in-depth now, with many sources and quotes directly from Keenan... Sergecross73   msg me  00:36, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

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2020 source

 * https://www.revolvermag.com/music/see-perfect-circle-play-intense-outsider-tonight-show-2004 (Honestly, I kind of think the writer used my work here as their reference, but there is a point or two that could be added I think.) Sergecross73   msg me  16:06, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Bass player
I commented somewhere on social media that Jeordie White played bass on this album, when I received a message from a person with a 'billyh' handle that said that Jeordie recorded but 3 songs, Mrs Lenchantin one (as stated in this page) and "I" (billyh) recorded the rest. The account is not very active so there's no way to link the handle to the man, but that's an interesting bit of info that I had never heard before. I don't know if the album booklet reflect that fact or if it's something that was not very well known. Can it warrant an edit? (Billyh's comment is public, if it can be used as source) Ghilou63450 (talk) 05:38, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Eh, sorry, but it's difficult to use "an unverified guy on an unspecified social media private messaged me" as a source. I'm pretty sure I used the album jacket to create the current credit section years ago. Let me know if you ever come across a better source though. The band is generally pretty good at crediting people, but those credits often fly contrary to what people think too. For example, Paz is actually credited for very little bass playing on studio albums, more often than not, it's Howerdel. So what you're saying isnt beyond belief at least. Sergecross73   msg me  23:08, 25 April 2021 (UTC)